please balance the gsf for new players....

[Pazernus]

im TIRED of this crap thats going in gsf. you cant win a single dam game when every fight you get premades with 100% upgrades against your random groups who coordinates trough chat programs to get perfect teamwork, while your side can just bite the dust hoping its fast loss.

 

its FAR from fun when you have 0% chance to win when your against 100% upgraded premade who's mere scout ships can 2 shot your side ships with their missiles.

 

so please, add some form of tiered system that after you used x ammount of requisition that you cant get queued against those who has 0-x ammount used, say 30-40k used for ships overall would be fair point to limit the no upgrades from full upgrades, to keep it somewhat fair.

 

and make it so, that premades can ONLY go against other premades. it kills the fun of doing gsf when all you get against you all day long is premade after premade team wich is doomed to your side's lost on my server (progenitor) unless you play on really dead hours, when you only get one game each 1-2 hours.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Pazernus

[dancezwithnubz]

i'd rather they put in an opt-in VOIP system in GSF (in all groups actually).

 

that way, every 'pug' has the same benefits the premades get.

 

the OTHER option is to start forming premades of your own.

[Pazernus]

but thats kinda the whole problem about it.

 

if you add voip to gsf, you can imagine what random trolls will do about it, so thats far from possible solution much as viable if it had easy form of muting others in i even while flying like tab to open menu and jsut click name to mute it.

 

and i dont agree really with the whole idea of "if you got issues with premades, premade your self".

 

in my opiniot noone should be forced to look for group, if they just wants ot have casual fun in the game, let it be trough gsf or pvp and just do it day to night if they wants without needing to find group for it, just cause you keep losing when enemy team is premade. cause everyone just wants ot have the fun without needing to be too competitive or serious about it to have the need for ranked games or premades for the "better team work".

 

premade should be basicly only for ranked games, where competitive behavior does count for something ratherthan for mere stomping random groups :3

[Zoom_VI]

I like this whole notion of "Ifi lose its because the entire enemy team was a Voip premade"

 

Seriously stop living in denial. pugs have just as much power to rofl stomp as anything else. I had one today where I one 1000 to 7 and there certainly where not any premades involved.

[Pazernus]

its not that "everytime i lose it has to be premade on enemy side", its that every loss is agains -same- premade of people. same guys game to game that always ends up in hard loss.

 

and yeah sure pub groups can stomp too against other pubs, but if its fully upgraded premade like this 1 that seems to be the only active group on activehours doing gsf in this server along with the 1-2 random in each of the games, its kinda impossible for pubs to even challenge them, let alone stomp.

[Verain]

So, your plan is that I shouldn't be able to ever get a game again, because I actually play. Your idea is horrible, your spelling is atrocious, and you should simply feel bad.

[PeterKannNix]

The request is fully legit.

 

Guys with tons of invested fighter resources shouldn't be set up against people with nearly null resources or add a stupid level system that allows to balance weak and strong players. About 90% of the guys i have contact too don't play GS as they don't like to be used as target dummies add to that the idiotic idea of sniper ships and you will simply have many player who don't play GS.

 

In the form it's in the moment the update will be dead in a few months as it will be totaly dominated by the few "elite" player.. groups.

[Verain]

The request is fully legit.

 

No, it isn't. There's a matchmaking system already. He's asking for, it is impossible for me to queue in to him. The problem is, then there's no game at all. I already routinely spend far more time in queue than playing during my play time- under his rules, I would have to own people on naked alts all the time in order to play ever.

 

Guys with tons of invested fighter resources shouldn't be set up against people with nearly null resources or add a stupid level system that allows to balance weak and strong players.

 

No and no. If there's good players on, the game will try to queue you against them. They need cross server queuing, that would solve all the problems, but I think we know they don't know how to do that.

 

The last thing I want to see is bolster. These upgrades have literally one purpose, and it is to make your ship stronger.

[Danylia]

I'd love a yellow post about how exactly the matchmaking works. OP, I play on Progenitor Imperial side, and while there are indeed a lot of matches where the Republic side is almost completely filled with veterans, I don't think they are actual premades. My personal feeling is that the matchmaking first and foremost assembles groups on each side and only then tries to match them against each other.

 

Example (let the numbers represent degree of "quality").

Republic queueing: 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1,

Empire queueing: 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,

 

How matchmaking should look like:

5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 2, 1, 1 vs. 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 2, 1, 1

 

Instead, I think the matchmaking first creates groups based on quality:

Republic Group 1: 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4

Republic Group 2: 3, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1

Imperial Group: 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 2, 1, 1

 

And then tries to pair Republic group against Empire group.

[PeterKannNix]

No, it isn't. There's a matchmaking system already. He's asking for, it is impossible for me to queue in to him.

 

That would be a great thing.. if you want to steal a babies lollipop go to your local park.

 

The problem is, then there's no game at all. I already routinely spend far more time in queue than playing during my play time- under his rules, I would have to own people on naked alts all the time in order to play ever.

 

Yeah and by destroying the game experience of many possible players you will surely increase the player base of GS.

 

If you generate a naked alt to join a newbie leagues your simply a bastard and i think you simply enjoy to feel great by owning stupid little newbies.

 

We all know the problem with the player base and not enough games opening up but as it is now it's simply totally unfair and demotivating for any new player.

[Pazernus]

bolster would indeed be teh wrong way to go.but still its not the right way to go either to let the "elite" play with the starter geared players.

 

and your whole tbh seems to be "im gonna diss others who dont do premades so i can get my free wins". you claim there is no games if it was premade vs premade only, yet both sides surelly has more than 1 premade team on each server doing them. and if you cant get fights as premade "autowin" group then isnt it time you start to queue as non premade and actually, learn more than mere speed baiting people to 3-4 ships camps? :>

 

the whole point is that the system is dying off cause there is no ranked mode, or any other that would take the geareds out from non geared. its like the normal pvp would be without bolstering. you just got no chance vs premades if you face them unless you are premade also, wich is exactly why there should be different queue for premade and non premade.

 

premades ruins everything for non premades fun factor wise in format thats ment to be -fun- not -competitive- since it aint got ranked system. and you dont need to have full premades either, you even get 2-3 man friend teams there too to premade queus who queued to gether so you wouldnt need to worry of 2not getting games".

 

so either tier it out somehow, or just toss premades to their own dam queue's.

 

and "oyur force to do new toons for non premade queues" everyone earns points each game they do, they WILL eventually get past the "tier" treshold.

 

or are you implying with the "then i need to make low level chars for the games" that you need to do premades on alts vs newbies who just starts it while you would otherwise know enough well of the game to be on the higher end side to win?

[AMightyKnight]

There's a matchmaking system already. [/Quote] I doubt there is a matchmaking system.

Either that or it just doesnt work at all. This is a game from some time ago:

http://i.imgur.com/fTqQv7k.jpg

That was during prime time with queue times under a minute.

This is a Screen of a game from today:

http://i.imgur.com/k2As9Aj.jpg

 

Republic vs Republic (!!) with the rest of my team got 4 kills combined against 73 of the other side. This is no isolated occurence either. While Imps barely win anything on my server to begin with, even with Republic against Republic more than half of the time we get blowout vicotries like less than 100 to 1000 or whats shown in the link.

 

You cant tell me thats impossible to build some algorithm to avoid such "matchmaking". Its not that hard. They are allready keeping track of everything we do in GSF as we will see on Tuesday.

 

I realise there is an issue with the Player pool, faction imbalance and all. But if more than half your game is playing against Republic as Republic and you still cant get fair setups, something is wrong.

Edited February 1, 2014 by AMightyKnight

[Dyrankor]

The learning curve is ridiculously steep - just stick with it. My recommendation is to also note the flow of the matches. If they're predominantly Empire or Republic wins, switch to that side for a little bit to get that boost to your requisition. Even if you continually lose, you're still getting requisition and making your ship better.

[reclipsed]

Yeah like others have said, the matchmaking does not seem to be flipped on yet. Even after prefs were able to play GSF we still see GSF masters flying against GSF janitors

 

hopefully it will get better

[Danylia]

I doubt there is a matchmaking system.

Either that or it just doesnt work at all. This is a game from some time ago:

http://i.imgur.com/fTqQv7k.jpg

That was during prime time with queue times under a minute.

This is a Screen of a game from today:

http://i.imgur.com/k2As9Aj.jpg

 

Republic vs Republic (!!) with the rest of my team got 4 kills combined against 73 of the other side. This is no isolated occurence either.

Look at my previous post in this thread where I describe how I think (emphasis on think) the matchmaking works; it would explain these one-sided matches. The other possible explanation would be that there are groups queueing together (but that still does not explain why group A isn't placed in team A and group B in team B).

 

Yeah like others have said, the matchmaking does not seem to be flipped on yet. Even after prefs were able to play GSF we still see GSF masters flying against GSF janitors

hopefully it will get better

Actually, I'm sometimes getting skipped for a match. That means, I'm in queue, I check Kuat Mesa instance and see player A there. The match ends, another starts again with player A in it (and the player is queueing solo, I specifically asked about that), and I'm still sitting in queue. If that's not matchmaking doing it, then I don't know what is.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Danylia

[NzFox]

I have never understood people who try to defend gear based combat (which is what this thread boils down to). If you enjoy the pvp for the pvp, it should not matter if you are only on equal setting as someone else, you should be enjoying it.

 

GSF is better than normal pvp, in that because you can miss shots, and dodge around, the skill of a person plays a larger factor. However unfortunately gear still does play a huge role, some ships more than others, but it is still a strong factor. You can easily see this on servers where one side completely dominates the GSF, one side won more, so got better gear, so started winning even more, causing the other side to quit...now its just highly geared ships cutting through ships, who have weapons which only tickle them back....its not fun for anyone

Edited February 2, 2014 by NzFox

[Verain]

That would be a great thing.. if you want to steal a babies lollipop go to your local park.

 

This is just worthless whining from someone who doesn't want me to play. If this went in to effect, I would just have to stomp you and him on an endless series of fresh alts. It wouldn't take very long for serious players to write the game off if they could never get matches.

 

Yeah and by destroying the game experience of many possible players you will surely increase the player base of GS.

 

If they are gonna quit because they get owned, then bro, they are gonna quit. Sorry. I'll take my chances with the subsection that doesn't need to be coddled like whining brats.

 

If you generate a naked alt to join a newbie leagues your simply a bastard and i think you simply enjoy to feel great by owning stupid little newbies.

 

Well, I'm definitely a jerk, no doubt about that. But, that isn't relevant. I don't queue up for the sole purpose of stomping newbs- I want to play the game. If I had to wait for all the good players to log on, I'd sit in queue for hours while mewling babes barrel roll into satelites, denying me the ability to play.

 

No. Screw that.

 

as it is now it's simply totally unfair and demotivating for any new player.

 

EVERY game has people who have played it and people who have not. It's a much bigger issue if people can't get matches.

 

Again, the solution is cross server matches, not "good players never get to play lol may as well quit once you have earned 10k req because that is obviously for crazy people".

[Verain]

But if more than half your game is playing against Republic as Republic and you still cant get fair setups, something is wrong.

 

It is certainly possible that matchmaking isn't working properly yet, for sure. If you are seeing that, that is pretty much madness, I'll agree.

 

My experience is different: there's not enough people to queue for like 15 minutes, then we finally all get a pop.

[EPierce]

Gotta say I agree GSF needs a hell of a lot of balancing work. The people who are talking about learning curves and saying l2p are making irrelevant points.

 

Yes, many people do need to l2p, but the idea of BALANCE is that those people are matched against other people who need to l2p. Then likewise for those that are intermediate and expert.

 

7/10 matches I play have wins by 700 or greater. That's terrible, even when I'm on the winning side. More competitive matches are more fun and blowouts are boring no matter which side you're on. There will always be people that need to l2p and there will always be blowouts, but balance needs to be designed in such a way as to reduce the amount of blowouts as much as possible.

[PeterKannNix]

@Verain

 

As you said you seem to be a selfish jerk.

 

I also want to play the game as often as possible but i don't feel good in winning a game against little toddlers but as i said on many other PvP games. Go continue ****** the new players you will get what you want. In a few months only a few elitism player are left and you can fight them over and over again once every few hours if all of you are online.

 

The last five games i joined .. ended about 1000v~50 and ran halve the max match time. Most of the time my side couldn't leave spawn protection without being raped. Yeah my team learned that the easiest way to enjoy the game was to leave the battle zone and play a flash point.

[dancezwithnubz]

I'd love a yellow post about how exactly the matchmaking works. OP, I play on Progenitor Imperial side, and while there are indeed a lot of matches where the Republic side is almost completely filled with veterans, I don't think they are actual premades. My personal feeling is that the matchmaking first and foremost assembles groups on each side and only then tries to match them against each other.

 

Example (let the numbers represent degree of "quality").

Republic queueing: 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1,

Empire queueing: 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,

 

How matchmaking should look like:

5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 2, 1, 1 vs. 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 2, 1, 1

 

Instead, I think the matchmaking first creates groups based on quality:

Republic Group 1: 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4

Republic Group 2: 3, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1

Imperial Group: 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 2, 1, 1

 

And then tries to pair Republic group against Empire group.

 

FYI: Number of ships a player has access too is a representation of how much money someone is prepare to spend to play GSF, not their skill level.

 

There's a couple of "two-ships" on Harbinger that absolutely RULE.

 

Myself, I have 10 ships on both a Rep & Imp character, purely for the extra requisition gains. I currently only actually FLY with Blackbolts or Quarrels (or their cross faction equivalent).

 

the GSF learning curve is steep. very steep. Preferred and, as of Tuesday F2P, players ONLY disadvantage against Subs is one of in-game, match experience. On Tuesday, F2P players with Zero games experience will get thrown up against Subs with (in my case) over 600 matches under their belt.

 

So, let me give you another example, take 2x 15 year olds. One who's never played a game of chess and one who's played 600 games.

 

who would you back to win that encounter?

 

Upgrades are NO substitute for experience. This gets proved time and time again when vet players take a new Alt with stock standard ships into matches and clean up.

 

Again, the solution is cross server matches, not "good players never get to play lol may as well quit once you have earned 10k req because that is obviously for crazy people".

 

ah man, that would be AWESOME!

 

the bigger the player base, the more matches that get played, the less time spent in queues and the faster the nubs get their skills up to snuff.

 

oh YES PLEASE!

 

gieb cross-server GSF!

Edited February 2, 2014 by dancezwithnubz

[Zohkar]

If I log into a match and I see my side has 1 veteran and the rest are new players and the opponents I am fighting is all veterans I leave the match. I would do it in ground pvp before the start time if I could see players names like you can in GSF. I like to have a fair chance to win a match but alot of people that play do so to rolfstomp the opponents and that just causes people to quit. I find my best enjoyment when the teams are even and it can go either way but those matchs are rare as it seems like more people play on the republic side which I swear there ships are harder to hit then imperial ships.

 

I have played on both sides and it just seems like when I aim at a imperial ship I miss alot less but when I take the same imperial ship and target a republic ship its like I'm a square and they are a triangle. Maybe I am different but when my team is dominating the opponents I go back and sit on my satellite and sit there or i play chicken and let the opponent try to kill me without attacking back to give players a chance to learn the controls. I definately don't play GSF nearly as much as I did in beta or when it first went live for preferred people. I've gone from playing 20 matchs a day to maybe two at most for the last month because of the way match making has played out.

[Verain]

@Verain

 

As you said you seem to be a selfish jerk.

 

That's not all I said!

 

 

Long term, other players will need to actually learn to play, or yes, they will quit. If enough people are playing, then matchmaking might even actually work.

[Armonddd]

Too tired to read the thread. Did anyone mention making the game harder for the winning team if they have a 400+ point lead? Because I feel like that would be more interesting than upping my queue times to half an hour as the game tries to find people with KDRs and W/L ratios and whatnot similar to mine.

[dancezwithnubz]

If I log into a match and I see my side has 1 veteran and the rest are new players and the opponents I am fighting is all veterans I leave the match. I would do it in ground pvp before the start time if I could see players names like you can in GSF. I like to have a fair chance to win a match but alot of people that play do so to rolfstomp the opponents and that just causes people to quit. I find my best enjoyment when the teams are even and it can go either way but those matchs are rare as it seems like more people play on the republic side which I swear there ships are harder to hit then imperial ships.

 

I have played on both sides and it just seems like when I aim at a imperial ship I miss alot less but when I take the same imperial ship and target a republic ship its like I'm a square and they are a triangle. Maybe I am different but when my team is dominating the opponents I go back and sit on my satellite and sit there or i play chicken and let the opponent try to kill me without attacking back to give players a chance to learn the controls. I definately don't play GSF nearly as much as I did in beta or when it first went live for preferred people. I've gone from playing 20 matchs a day to maybe two at most for the last month because of the way match making has played out.

 

so, you'll desert your teammates if you think you won't win?

you'll leave a bunch of nubs without an experienced pilot (i'll assume you're experienced) to help even the odds?

 

This isn't EvE Online where running away from a superior opposing force is ALWAYS the right move (as they say in EvE, if you find yourself in a fair fight, you went in under-prepared.)

 

and FYI: ships are mirrors across factions. the NovaDive and Blackbolt are, for all intents and purposes, exactly teh same ship, just with a different graphic. what you're seeing, if anything, is a difference in component choices. A Blackbolt with %DR armor will be a LOT easier to hit than a NovaDive with %Evasion armor.

Edited February 2, 2014 by dancezwithnubz