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Yet another Bolster question/bit of nonsense


BobBudJones

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Okay so I just came back after a long time away. I read about Bolster before doing any PvP, so I had an idea of what to expect from Bolster.

 

Boy was I wrong.

 

The toon I played with is level 52, still wearing a mishmash of mostly Battlemaster and a couple Recruit pieces I got from lvl 50 PvP before. I expected to have less Expertise than other players, due to already having some on my gear. True enough, everyone else had about double what I had.

 

What surprised me was that they all had about 40% higher of their other key stats compared to me. All told, that's a gigantic difference.

 

So basically I am completely gimped in PvP by wearing PvP gear that I earned from grinding countless hours of warzones. GJ Bioware...now I have to completely re-gear all my toons somehow BEFORE reaching level 55, then at 55 presumably start working on yet another PvP set. I don't understand why Bolster can't raise old PvP gear at least to the level that whatever some random level 30-something wears into a WZ gets Bolstered to. Makes no sense. Great way to make it easy for older players to come back to the game.

 

Something that might be nice would be a way to trade in my now-useless BM gear for comparable PvE gear that would get Bolstered properly in WZs.

 

/QQ

Edited by BobBudJones
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Okay so I just came back after a long time away. I read about Bolster before doing any PvP, so I had an idea of what to expect from Bolster.

 

Boy was I wrong.

 

The toon I played with is level 52, still wearing a mishmash of mostly Battlemaster and a couple Recruit pieces I got from lvl 50 PvP before. I expected to have less Expertise than other players, due to already having some on my gear. True enough, everyone else had about double what I had.

 

What surprised me was that they all had about 40% higher of their other key stats compared to me. All told, that's a gigantic difference.

 

So basically I am completely gimped in PvP by wearing PvP gear that I earned from grinding countless hours of warzones. GJ Bioware...now I have to completely re-gear all my toons somehow BEFORE reaching level 55, then at 55 presumably start working on yet another PvP set. I don't understand why Bolster can't raise old PvP gear at least to the level that whatever some random level 30-something wears into a WZ gets Bolstered to. Makes no sense. Great way to make it easy for older players to come back to the game.

 

Something that might be nice would be a way to trade in my now-useless BM gear for comparable PvE gear that would get Bolstered properly in WZs.

 

/QQ

 

/signed

 

I also returned to the game after a long break and found the same thing. I would like to see a way to get old PvP gear useful again or atleast get some kind of compensation for it.

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I'm really sad now. What this really does is encourage me to abandon my 50s and go back to my lower-level toons, who won't be gimped in PvP with their quest blues/crafted gear. Then when they get to 50 they'll still be in good shape.

 

Just not sure where I'm even supposed to get the cash to re-gear my 50s without levelling them to 55...

 

What would happen if if went into a warzone with empty orange gear?

Edited by BobBudJones
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And one more thing: does the way Bolster works not completely eliminate the need for Expertise at all? I thought t he entire point was to differentiate PvP gear from PvE. Fine if they want to just ditch it....but artificially giving PvE gear MORE Expertise than PvP gear seems bass-ackwards....

 

When my level 41 character in crafted gear has FAR higher stats across the board--including expertise--IN A FREAKING WARZONE compared to my level 50 in Battlemaster/War Hero gear, something is terribly, terribly wrong.

Edited by BobBudJones
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And one more thing: does the way Bolster works not completely eliminate the need for Expertise at all?

 

Under lvl 54, you are right: you should not wear any Expertise in WZ (Only some old pvp sets and the +41 Expertise crystals have expertise below lvl 55 anyway).

 

At lvl 55 PVP gear should perform better in WZ than PVE gear, and in principle it does (though that may very for some slots).

 

Bottom line: Below 55, ditch you old Expertise gear and do some pve/crafting to get blue/purple PVE equipment and you are fine in WZ.

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also returned to the game after a long break and found the same thing. I would like to see a way to get old PvP gear useful again or atleast get some kind of compensation for it.

 

I know it's not what you mean, but you can (after dinging 55) put the current PvP mods into your old PvP gear. That's about as close as you can get.

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Something that might be nice would be a way to trade in my now-useless BM gear for comparable PvE gear that would get Bolstered properly in WZs.

 

Btw, this was done with the (then) latest lvl 50 PVP set when Makeb hit. They removed the Expertise from the PVP set (I think it was called the War Hero set) and buffed the overall stats of this set.

 

And I do not want to defend Bolster, but I think it should be somewhat expected that 2 (!) year old gear is far from BIS and needs to be replaced in an MMO.

Edited by Arutar
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Yes, BW have failed completly to inform and implement the "new" bolster system.

 

They change the system to not bolster slots containing expertise, making older PvP sets useless for PvP.

 

They change the old PvP set "Warhero" by actually removing expertise and boosting the stats to PvE levels, so that it in fact gets bolstered. But just that one set, they don't remove expertise from the other old sets, like Recruit, Battlemaster, Centurion etc.

 

They leave the Fleet PvP vendor intact, selling lowbie PvP weapons right next to the PvP Terminal, and guess what? -Those contain a small ammount of Expertise, which effectivly renders them by far the worst thing you could possibly equip in a Warzone.

 

They didn't change the level 10 requirement on expertise crystals, so those can also be bought both on the GTN and on the CM granting +41 Expertise to anyone below level 55.

 

They make no effort on preventing old gear to enter a warzone. No warning to read at the queue window, no warning on the outdated gear. They just assume that anyone new or returning to the game will magically understand that Weapons from the PvP vendor is useless for PvP, and green level 10's are superior to level 50 PvP gear with significally higher stats. Makes perfect BW sense!

 

And that is why i allways am friendly and send a whisper with information, the first time i see a player wearing old gear, or expertise crystals etc. It's BW that deserves the frustration, not the guy they failed to inform.

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I'm really sad now. What this really does is encourage me to abandon my 50s and go back to my lower-level toons, who won't be gimped in PvP with their quest blues/crafted gear. Then when they get to 50 they'll still be in good shape.

 

Just not sure where I'm even supposed to get the cash to re-gear my 50s without levelling them to 55...

 

What would happen if if went into a warzone with empty orange gear?

 

Buy some cheap blue implants/earpiece and some cheap pve relics and then use planetary comms to get the 58 mods from the makeb vendor. That will hold you over till 55 where you start the grind for the new gear.

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And I do not want to defend Bolster, but I think it should be somewhat expected that 2 (!) year old gear is far from BIS and needs to be replaced in an MMO.

 

Yes, indeed. But how on earth is a new/returning player supposed to understand that a PvP set with lower stats then current BiS, but still stats somewhat high - is worse to use for PvP then any level PvE greens?

 

So yeah, anyone returning should obviously not assume that their old gear is BiS, but they have absolutly NO reason to even consider the possibility that PvE gear is more viable then PvP gear in PvP, Imo.

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Okay so I just came back after a long time away. I read about Bolster before doing any PvP, so I had an idea of what to expect from Bolster.

 

Boy was I wrong.

 

The toon I played with is level 52, still wearing a mishmash of mostly Battlemaster and a couple Recruit pieces I got from lvl 50 PvP before. I expected to have less Expertise than other players, due to already having some on my gear. True enough, everyone else had about double what I had.

 

What surprised me was that they all had about 40% higher of their other key stats compared to me. All told, that's a gigantic difference.

 

So basically I am completely gimped in PvP by wearing PvP gear that I earned from grinding countless hours of warzones. GJ Bioware...now I have to completely re-gear all my toons somehow BEFORE reaching level 55, then at 55 presumably start working on yet another PvP set. I don't understand why Bolster can't raise old PvP gear at least to the level that whatever some random level 30-something wears into a WZ gets Bolstered to. Makes no sense. Great way to make it easy for older players to come back to the game.

 

Something that might be nice would be a way to trade in my now-useless BM gear for comparable PvE gear that would get Bolstered properly in WZs.

 

/QQ

 

i agree that its extremely stupid but there is a really easy solution. just go to the gtn and buy some crappy greens of any level and u will get max expertise in warzones. problem essentially solved.

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Yes, indeed. But how on earth is a new/returning player supposed to understand that a PvP set with lower stats then current BiS, but still stats somewhat high - is worse to use for PvP then any level PvE greens?

 

So yeah, anyone returning should obviously not assume that their old gear is BiS, but they have absolutly NO reason to even consider the possibility that PvE gear is more viable then PvP gear in PvP, Imo.

 

I couldn`t agree more.

 

But the OP apparently has undestood the basics by now. And though I sympathize with him regarding the General mess that still is bolster, I do not think that a compensation for the fact that his 2 year old pvp gear is useless by now is required, bolster or not.

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I went through the same thing OP and it was a bit troubling. That said it only took me three days to get into gear that I was somewhat competitive in, with a 2 week grind to get blue augments on every piece of gear. Not too bad really considering what other games require in similar situations.

 

Big thing we need is something in game that gives information on this. Not every player will come to the forums when they are getting destroyed to figure out what is wrong.

Edited by Vodrin
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Btw, this was done with the (then) latest lvl 50 PVP set when Makeb hit. They removed the Expertise from the PVP set (I think it was called the War Hero set) and buffed the overall stats of this set.

 

And I do not want to defend Bolster, but I think it should be somewhat expected that 2 (!) year old gear is far from BIS and needs to be replaced in an MMO.

 

Actually, it is not just 2 year gear that is shafted. Even if you had the most recent outdated gear (partisan) you get shafted as well. You are not in a hole in expertise the same as the really old stuff, but since your gear has expertise, you do not get bolstered on your other stats and are now in a big hole stat wise from any other gear that gets bolstered to just as good of expertise, as well as much bettter primary, secondary and all other stats.

Edited by Technohic
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Actually, it is not just 2 year gear that is shafted. Even if you had the most recent outdated gear (partisan) you get shafted as well. You are not in a hole in expertise the same as the really old stuff, but since your gear has expertise, you do not get bolstered on your other stats and are now in a big hole stat wise from any other gear that gets bolstered to just as good of expertise, as well as much bettter primary, secondary and all other stats.

 

It's quite true that bolstered gear is frequently better than Partisan, and partisan is pretty bad compared to Obroan. Which is why I find it funny that some people are advising that bolster be changed so that it bolsters to partisan stat levels. While the current situation that has bolster making some PvE gear better than Obroan is not ok, nerfing bolster to partisan levels also does not work.

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Yes, BW have failed completly to inform and implement the "new" bolster system.

 

This is the main problem. There is little to no information anywhere about Bolster that informs returning players that the PvP gear they may be using is actually a detriment to their gameplay. We thought Recruit Gear was bad before, however, with Bolster it may very well be the absolute worst gear possible for PvP.

 

Since the majority of peeps playing don't read the forums, I'm not sure what would be a good way to do this. I try to inform people when I can or notice, but this issue shouldn't be left to us to resolve. There has to be a better way to inform players. I just see peeps coming back, getting their azzes squashed, and bolting forever.

 

 

Actually, it is not just 2 year gear that is shafted. Even if you had the most recent outdated gear (partisan) you get shafted as well.

 

This is absolutely true. After the Obroan Bolster update, even min/maxed Partisan became near garbage. You are better off PvPing in crafted gear than using Partisan.

Edited by DarthOvertone
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This is the main problem. There is little to no information anywhere about Bolster that informs them the PvP gear they may be using is actually a detriment to their gameplay. We thought Recruit Gear was bad before, however, with Bolster it may very well be the absolute worst gear possible for PvP.

 

Since the majority of peeps playing don't read the forums, I'm not sure what would be a good way to do this. I try to inform people when I can or notice, but this issue shouldn't be left to us to resolve. There has to be a better way to inform players. I just see peeps coming back, getting their azzes squashed, and bolting forever.

 

 

 

 

This is absolutely true. After the Obroan Bolster update, even min/maxed Partisan became near garbage. You are better off PvPing in crafted gear than using Partisan.

 

Yeah, I have to get mine off and see. I've been doing ok, but have noticed my numbers are down, but then I am usually pretty quick to go to node duty.

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If you dump all of you bm/recruit gear that has expertise, go to your starter planet and buy nerf herder /training gear to replace the lost pieces, you will find that your stats in a wz will be much more competitive. Yes there is a lot of eye rolling but it's not hard to get gear that works in wzs now.
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Thanks for all the feedback. I agree that BW dropped the ball on being informative to returning players. Of course I didn't expect my BM gear to be SuperAwesome, but I didn't expect it to be so much worse than, say, level 41 greens.

 

First WZ I went into I noticed I had about 9k health less than a level 31 Jugg. I then inspected everyone's stats, and they all had about 2k expertise compared to my 1k, and about 2800 in their other key stats compared to my 2000. That's a huge difference. Again, these players were mostly 30s-40s level-wise.

 

The problem with getting low-level, cheap greens for PvP is that besides the fact that it looks stupid aesthetically, I can't do Makeb content in low-level greens, so I have to keep my BM gear to swap into for PvE content, which is just silly. Considering I typically queue for PvP while questing, this is quite a pain and takes up an extra 12 or so slots in my inventory.

 

Now that I know that they fixed the old War Hero gear, I wonder why they didn't do that with BM? Recruit is one thing, it was basically free anyhow, but BM was pretty decent gear that took a lot of matches to earn. Also, I swapped my War Hero mods into orange gear, and whatever changes they made don't seem to have applied to those; they still have expertise on them.

Edited by BobBudJones
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Thanks for all the feedback. I agree that BW dropped the ball on being informative to returning players. Of course I didn't expect my BM gear to be SuperAwesome, but I didn't expect it to be so much worse than, say, level 41 greens.

 

First WZ I went into I noticed I had about 9k health less than a level 31 Jugg. I then inspected everyone's stats, and they all had about 2k expertise compared to my 1k, and about 2800 in their other key stats compared to my 2000. That's a huge difference. Again, these players were mostly 30s-40s level-wise.

 

The problem with getting low-level, cheap greens for PvP is that besides the fact that it looks stupid aesthetically, I can't do Makeb content in low-level greens, so I have to keep my BM gear to swap into for PvE content, which is just silly. Considering I typically queue for PvP while questing, this is quite a pain and takes up an extra 12 or so slots in my inventory.

 

Now that I know that they fixed the old War Hero gear, I wonder why they didn't do that with BM? Recruit is one thing, it was basically free anyhow, but BM was pretty decent gear that took a lot of matches to earn. Also, I swapped my War Hero mods into orange gear, and whatever changes they made don't seem to have applied to those; they still have expertise on them.

 

They did it with the tier 1 and tier 2 PvP gear in circulation at the time they introduced bolster (War Hero and Elite War Hero). I think there was an assumption that no current players were using BM gear anyways so they did not need to bolster it. Kind of short sighted not to consider that players would return after absences from the game and would get bit by this.

 

On the point of solving your problem, check and see if you have planetary commendations. As all the old non-raid PvE comms from when we used to play were consolidated into planetary comms I had over a hundred of these on my main when I came back allowing me to fully mod a set of orange gear with 58 purple PvE mods. These are actually better than BM gear for PvE, and bolster to 2018 expertise, so take a look at that. If you don't have many planetary comms you can still go and run the daily heroics on the first three planets in your BM gear and get enough for a set of 58 purples inside of a week or two.

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Read L-RANDLE's thread here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=707204

 

Once you hit 55, you can get mods from the makeb vendor on fleet (58 mods). That stuff gets bolstered very well and works good enough for makeb questing. As you PVP at 55, you can get conqueror gear from the fleet pvp vendor relatively quickly, which will work very well for PVE.

 

Sub 55, yes, ditch all of your battlemaster and recruit gear. It's worthless now. Very frustrating, I know. If an item has any expertise, that item will not get bolstered. So, in order to get max expertise (2018), you'll either need a gear piece for a given slot that has the max expertise for that slot or none at all.

 

So, if I were you, here is what I would do:

1. Go to GTN and get greens. It sucks, I know.

2. Do lots of PVP until you hit 55. Max out ranked comms and regular comms. Also use the trick of buying pvp weapons and trading them in under the 2 hour window to stockpile an even larger comm reserve. This will allow you to get a full set of conqueror gear when you hit 55.

3. If you don't want to do #2, just save as many comms as you can and get as much conq as you can when hitting 55, use planetary comms to get makeb 58s for the rest.

 

Unfortunately, you don't really have a way to use 1 set for PVE and PVP sub 55. I think you can purchase crafted 66 PVE gear from the GTN, but that will be pricey. IIRC you have to be level 53 to use it. however, the 66s are not bolstered real well (not as bad as recruit gear, though). Again, read L-RANDLE's thread.

 

When you hit 55:

1. Get full conqueror gear set (or as much as possible, rest 58 makeb mods).

2. Go to GTN and get orange / purple gear that you like the appearance of and want to keep for a long time.

3. If you can afford it, augment that gear with 66 purples (Advanced XXXXX Augment 28 + augmentation kit mk-9) if you can afford it. If you can't afford the 66 purple augments, get something cheaper for the time being, such as 66 blues.

4. Pull mods from conq gear and put them in your orange gear. Keep the conq shells in your cargo hold (you'll need them when trading in for obroan pvp gear).

5. Be awesome at PVP and PVE with a single set (excluding endgame PVE, of course).

 

Hope that helps!

 

EDIT: One more thing. If you want 58 makeb mods and are short on planetary comms, you can actually exchange warzone comms for planetary comms from the vendor next to the pvp terminal (not pvp weapons vendor, the other one).

Edited by teclado
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Buy some cheap blue implants/earpiece and some cheap pve relics and then use planetary comms to get the 58 mods from the makeb vendor. That will hold you over till 55 where you start the grind for the new gear.

 

By doing Oricon you get 66 armorings and mods which give you 2018 exp. Hilts and barrels are better than conq.

Edited by Aetideus
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