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2.6 Sharpshooter Build


ArchangelLBC

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So in anticipation of 2.6, I, like many far superior players, have been on the PTS parsing, in particular testing Sharpshooter. Nerfed or not this will continue to be the goto spec for high target switching fights like Bestia and Corrupter Zero, and as long as it remains viable those who preferred the spec for pretty much all encounters will keep using it.

 

Now from conversations on the PTS forums with ThoK-Zeus he brought up the fact that during raids he already uses a 36/7/3 or 36/8/2 over a spec like 36/3/7 or 36/4/6 because while it's arguably better on the dummy in actual raid settings, and especially in those high target fights he gets more use out of points in Independent Anarchy since proper uptime on Vital Shot isn't as easy to maintain, and the higher damage from Flyby is just better.

 

It would seem to me like this may have even more merit in 2.6.

 

Let me explain:

 

Currently on the PTS I'm replacing Flyby with Sabotage Charge during the BV rotation simply because it's the last semi-heavy hitter we have left to use during an energy dump. This got me thinking.

 

The current rhythm of our typical rotation is that, because Aimed Shot goes on CD when it actually fires, that you essentially have 12 seconds from Aimed Shot to Aimed shot which in the course of a normal rotation leaves you with a hole in the rotation. Into this hole we currently throw Vital Shot, and hence take Mortal Wound for the extra ticks.

 

I'm now thinking about taking something like this. The main reasoning is this: With 2.6 I'm personally replacing Flyby in the BV rotation with Sabotage Charge (so it goes Speed Shot > Trick Shot > BV > Speed Shot > Sabotage Charge > Trick Shot > rest of the rotation). So Independant Anarchy boots Sabotage Charge damage. Additionally I've basically been playing with throwing Flyby into that extra GCD between Aimed Shots when it's off Cooldown since, especially with the IA talent, a Flyby does more damage for less energy than Vital Shot. Then when Flyby is on CD you throw Vital Shot. You lose uptime on Vital Shot, but I'm basically thinking of things in terms of damage per activation (everything is a GCD now) and damage per energy (except for Sabotage Charge actually).

 

Preliminary testing has this doing the pretty much the same for me as the new 36/3/7 (with the extra damage from Mortal Wound plus the extra 3 second duration). only with much less thinking or concentration on Vital Shot uptime (since you absolutely don't want to clip it). However, I am not exactly the best player ever so was wondering if much better players than I could do some comparative testing. I may just be leaving a lot of damage out on the floor when it comes to 36/3/7.

 

For the more math inclined (I love math but despise calculations) basically what we're asking is this:

Is an extra tick on Vital Shot (essentially a 20% increase if you don't clip it) and a 25% chance to tick twice (.02% chance to double your damage from VS before crits, and a 17.79% chance to do absolutely nothing per activation), on an ability that you'll want to activate as close to every 18 seconds better than a 10-15% increase (15% requires dropping 1% crit from No Holds Barred) to Sabotage Charge which you'll use every 45 seconds and Orbital Strike which you'll also use roughly every 45 seconds.

 

My intuition says it's theoretically less damage on a dummy. My preliminary testing says it's roughly a wash on the dummy with the caveat that I am an average player at best. I'm seriously wondering though if it wouldn't shine quite a lot in an actual boss fight.

 

Thoughts?

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Unless I'm mistaken the skill trees change slightly in 2.6 making Mortal Wound a 1-point talent, so I'm looking at running 36/4/6, getting the full 25% chance to tick twice and still being able to double proc relics. Just quickly breaking down pros and cons, bearing in mind I haven't actually gone on the PTS and these numbers might be a bit iffy.

 

+10% damage to Sabotage Charge would add about 500 damage with average crits, so +500 dmg every 45 seconds would only make an extra 11 or so DPS, which is almost negligible.

 

A 25% chance for Vital Shot to tick a second time is a bit RNG dependent but unless I'm mistaken it will add anywhere between 40 and 60 DPS, so even with a bit of bad luck you're still going to benefit so much more with the extra tick. There's also potential to multi-DoT targets in some fights (Dread Masters) which takes advantage of double tick even more.

 

One last thing that gives 36/4/6 an advantage over 36/7/3 is the 2% alacrity, which isn't negligible (extra 4 GCDs over 5 minutes) especially considering how much SS casts/channels.

 

Not to completely trample all over that build but personally I was only ever looking at 36/4/6 for 2.6 onwards, at least until the double proc gets nerfed. However, I haven't actually been on the PTS so I have no hard evidence for my argument, just what I've concluded from experience.

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Not to completely trample all over that build but personally I was only ever looking at 36/4/6 for 2.6 onwards, at least until the double proc gets nerfed. However, I haven't actually been on the PTS so I have no hard evidence for my argument, just what I've concluded from experience.

 

Summed it up for me

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No you're thinking mirrors mine for the most part. On the other hand here's my thinking.

 

1) In certain fights Vital Shot uptime just isn't really happening. Draxus and Calphayus for example, Corrupter Zero and Brontes to some extent. Bestia it's doableish because SS is the king of target switching and the big adds in there can last for a decent amount. For many of the fights which favor taking the VS talent(s) like Tyrans and Grob'thok, I already personally use Hybrid, though if I didn't I would respec into Mortal Wound for those fights.

 

2) In many fights higher AoE IS profitable. Let's face it. Even in 2.6, Flyby is going to continue to be our goto AoE ability. It does less damage than Sweeping blasters (though maybe after you account for armor).. but costs a lot less, involves a lot less time spent using it, has no target limit and an 8m radius. We're going to use it in the add heavy fights, and when we do those Flyby's will pack a marginally harder punch as well as providing a slightly harder punch to our BV rotations (btw an average of 600 damage is about what I'm seeing from taking the talent though I don't recall off the top of my head whether I was putting 2 points or 3 points into independant anarchy). Again for a fight like Draxus and ESPECIALLY for a fight like CZ I want to have the biggest AoE punch I can without detracting too badly from my ST rotation (because I'll still do flyby and then proceed to single target down the adds).

 

3) Even in fights where you can ensure good uptime on VS, it's that one more little thing to think about because if you're worth your salt you don't want to clip the dot, and certainly not if you spec into 36/3/7 in 2.6 for the additional 3 seconds from VS. With this you throw Sabotage Charge during BV, Flyby during the next rotation (for those fights where you aren't using it for AOEs), vital shot during the next rotation, and then it's time to use BV again. Honestly a minor issue, but I felt I'd mention it for completeness. Easier = better in raids.

 

I honestly have little doubt that 36/4/6 or 36/3/7 will continue to be the top parsing dummy specs for SS. I do wonder if this won't have better results in actual boss fights. Still I felt like it was worth posting up and getting others' insight =)

Edited by ArchangelLBC
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No you're thinking mirrors mine for the most part. On the other hand here's my thinking.

 

1) In certain fights Vital Shot uptime just isn't really happening. Draxus and Calphayus for example, Corrupter Zero and Brontes to some extent. Bestia it's doableish because SS is the king of target switching and the big adds in there can last for a decent amount. For many of the fights which favor taking the VS talent(s) like Tyrans and Grob'thok, I already personally use Hybrid, though if I didn't I would respec into Mortal Wound for those fights.

 

2) In many fights higher AoE IS profitable. Let's face it. Even in 2.6, Flyby is going to continue to be our goto AoE ability. It does less damage than Sweeping blasters (though maybe after you account for armor).. but costs a lot less, involves a lot less time spent using it, has no target limit and an 8m radius. We're going to use it in the add heavy fights, and when we do those Flyby's will pack a marginally harder punch as well as providing a slightly harder punch to our BV rotations (btw an average of 600 damage is about what I'm seeing from taking the talent though I don't recall off the top of my head whether I was putting 2 points or 3 points into independant anarchy). Again for a fight like Draxus and ESPECIALLY for a fight like CZ I want to have the biggest AoE punch I can without detracting too badly from my ST rotation (because I'll still do flyby and then proceed to single target down the adds).

 

3) Even in fights where you can ensure good uptime on VS, it's that one more little thing to think about because if you're worth your salt you don't want to clip the dot, and certainly not if you spec into 36/3/7 in 2.6 for the additional 3 seconds from VS. With this you throw Sabotage Charge during BV, Flyby during the next rotation (for those fights where you aren't using it for AOEs), vital shot during the next rotation, and then it's time to use BV again. Honestly a minor issue, but I felt I'd mention it for completeness. Easier = better in raids.

 

I honestly have little doubt that 36/4/6 or 36/3/7 will continue to be the top parsing dummy specs for SS. I do wonder if this won't have better results in actual boss fights. Still I felt like it was worth posting up and getting others' insight =)

 

Learning how to use DoTs without losing dps is a part of learning how to dps competitively. There is no substitute for 36/4/6. Even now, when flyby is astronomically more powerful than it is on the test server, 36/3/7 and its 36/4/6 variant are superior.

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Learning how to use DoTs without losing dps is a part of learning how to dps competitively. There is no substitute for 36/4/6. Even now, when flyby is astronomically more powerful than it is on the test server, 36/3/7 and its 36/4/6 variant are superior.

 

That addresses thought 3, not the other two. A duration buff to VS is worthless on fights where nothing you apply it to will be up for even the unbuffed duration. Draxus in particular, I can't think of anything that actually lasts 18 seconds, or even 15 seconds, all the adds die too quickly and Draxus himself is never down all that long, meanwhile buffed flyby helps get the adds down e ven quicker.

 

I think we'd both agree that maximizing DPS is about maximizing your GCDs. That means that on Bestia, when the Larvae are up I don't waste Vital Shot on them since they'll die too quick, I apply it to the current Dead Monster that's up and unbuffed, or to Bestia herself if she's active.

 

Like I said though, I agree that in practice it's going to be 36/4/6 or 36/3/7. This mostly comes from a PTS discussion where THoK-Zeus took the position that Independant Anarchy was better for actual raiding. It loses a good chunk of power in 2.6 I'll admit but we are going to be using SaboC a lot more.

 

To quote the original post that got me thinking:

For raids i generally run 36/7/3 or 36/8/2 when i run mm:

On df /dp i do that for:

-Draxxus (Orbital add damage + lot of small hp adds were you cant cast cordot)

-Corruptor Zero (Orbital add damage makes it much better to run Explosive Engineering Specs)

-Brontes (15% Orbital damage against multiple targets in the 6 fingers is more important then cordot improvements which is anyway only partially usable on this fight)

-Bestia (Orbital damage against multiple enemys + cordot is generally not very good against most of the small adds)

- Calphayus (A lot better burst potential against crystals + adds)

- Raptus (a better burst potential in the challenge, tough here 36/3/7 might be good)

- Dread Masters (a way better burst potential in the last phase)

On the other bosses (nefra, tyrans and grob'thok ) i currently always run hybrid.

 

Was an interesting thought, and THoK-Zeus is many things but an idiot isn't one of them, and a good raider definitely is.

 

Just something to think about.

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offtopic:

 

am i the only lethality fan >_<,

 

I'll probably use 36/4/6 like what the previous posters said. But the past few weeks i've been going full lethality for all of DF and DP and it's been working out great: Bestia, Corruptor Zero , even Draxxus.

Edited by paowee
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My main problem with lethality (aside from it being the lowest dps sniper spec on current live), is just that it's a dot spec, and therefore has a longer ramp up time. I think with the gear people have, most specs/classes would work on current fights, but I worry about Nightmare Mode. I think there are some fights that would prove pretty difficult if you don't have a dps or two that can change targets and burn quickly.
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offtopic:

 

am i the only lethality fan >_<,

 

I'll probably use 36/4/6 like what the previous posters said. But the past few weeks i've been going full lethality for all of DF and DP and it's been working out great: Bestia, Corruptor Zero , even Draxxus.

 

Yes you are =P

 

Hybrid is just honestly so much better from both a damage perspective, a playstyle perspective, and an aesthetic perspective (the cluster bombs go boom! mwahahahaha).

 

Honestly if you're having success with Lethality, then go with it. It's clearly a perfectly raid viable spec, and despite what I just said above, I can see how others would prefer it over hybrid. Indeed it's going to see the least change in 2.6 I'd think. Honestly I think the spec could use a buff (the duration buff to Vital Shot is a red herring for DF because you always reapply in the same place). If the upper tiers, and especially weakening blast, were powerful enough people wouldn't be flocking to the Hybrid for their DoT spec needs. Still, it's not a bad spec by any means and if you like it and make it work so you aren't holding your raid group back then why switch?

 

Personally I don't really like DoT specs. Again that's just my preference, which is one reason I've loved SS so much. Which is why I hate to see it gutted so with the Flyby nerf. Sometimes I get the feeling that you want the other specs nerfed so others would flock to your beloved Lethality. I think I'm being very unfair to you when I do this, but that is the impression I get and surely you don't actually think that. Right?

Edited by ArchangelLBC
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:p

 

Arhc my beloved spec is Engineering :) But unlike the previous content there really isn't enough large size bosses for it :( vid :)

 

I like all specs depending on what's fotm. I normally gravitate towards under played or less fotm specs or classes. In 1.7 when everyone was a Hybrid Sorc and Arsenal Merc, i was a Sniper DPS just because. When Lethality was popular i tried the Hybrid. During this time there was 0 love for MM (but i didn't play that). When 2.0 hit everyone was 36/8/X . There was one thread in the gunslinger forums by Samuel (MM dot spec) that didn't have enough testing, so i tried that. (Not counting the time of Engineering's rise in TFB/SV). Now the "least loved" spec is Full Lethality so most of my focus is playing that and discussing with other lethality fans how to increase its DPS (given the incoming nerfs).

 

After 2.6 (if it goes through) and everything settle's down, it should be time to bug BioWare again about Engineering/Sab. It's not the lowest DPS spec of the 3 (or 4) but it is imo the least played in Ops because of playstyle issues. (Back in TFB/SV) everyone were either Dotspec or MM, i was mostly Engineering. Right now (DF/DP) most people are either Hybrid or MM, so i'm Full Lethality -__-

Edited by paowee
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Bah, I've always loved Lightning for sorcs. Best aoe, best force management, and always more damage than Madness. Even when Hybrid was big, Lightning was just behind it on single target dps. And again, I much prefer Marksman for Snipers just because of the up-front damage style of their damage. It just deals with so well with many boss mechanics.

 

And again, my main concern/ planning is for Nightmare Mode.

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Also to answer your question,

For the more math inclined (I love math but despise calculations) basically what we're asking is this:

Is an extra tick on Vital Shot (essentially a 20% increase if you don't clip it) and a 25% chance to tick twice (.02% chance to double your damage from VS before crits, and a 17.79% chance to do absolutely nothing per activation), on an ability that you'll want to activate as close to every 18 seconds better than a 10-15% increase (15% requires dropping 1% crit from No Holds Barred) to Sabotage Charge which you'll use every 45 seconds and Orbital Strike which you'll also use roughly every 45 seconds.

 

Thoughts?

You can test this and post it back here :)

 

(If we don't count energy cost inside a normal rotation) It should be easy to tell which one does more DPS (single target). Unequip relics →

 

36/4/6

DPA test #1) 1 Vital Shot for every 1 SaboCharge; and Rifle Shot the rest for 5 mins

DPS test #2) Vital Shot "on cooldown" versus SaboCharge on cooldown; and Rifle Shot the rest for 5 mins

 

36/7/3

DPA test #1) 1 Vital Shot for every 1 SaboCharge; and Rifle Shot the rest for 5 mins

DPS test #2) Vital Shot "on cooldown" versus SaboCharge on cooldown; and Rifle Shot the rest for 5 mins

Edited by paowee
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Arhc my beloved spec is Engineering :) But unlike the previous content there really isn't enough large size bosses for it :( vid :)

 

That video made me sad :(

 

In Optimised underworld with some oriconian mods/armoring/earpieces thrown in, Im barely parsing 3k dps on a good day on my vanguard, and that video was made before dummys could be armor debuffed and given a health bar

 

The price of being OP in PvP i guess

Edited by TACeMossie
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  • 2 weeks later...

I prefer a build more akin to this

 

Mainly because I like more energy, I love the low XS Flyby cast time, and 10 energy actually really helps me out, ive been thinking of seeing if the 4 piece Enforcer although the 2 piece isn't too useful, the 4 piece would possibly be really useful, because it would make your insta CB put you to 100 energy. I know the class doesn't have too many energy issues as it is, but still more energy cant always hurt.

Edited by Kaos_KidSWTOR
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I prefer a build more akin to this

 

Mainly because I like more energy, I love the low XS Flyby cast time, and 10 energy actually really helps me out, ive been thinking of seeing if the 4 piece Enforcer although the 2 piece isn't too useful, the 4 piece would possibly be really useful, because it would make your insta CB put you to 100 energy. I know the class doesn't have too many energy issues as it is, but still more energy cant always hurt.

 

You will find that giving up that extra which we don't need, and going for extra crit, alacrity, and extra ticks in Vital Shot will result in a lot more damage for you.

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You will find that giving up that extra (extra WHAT?) which we don't need, and going for extra crit, alacrity, and extra ticks in Vital Shot will result in a lot more damage for you.

 

I do know that we get 30% Surge on our vital abilities, but the thing is, Crits are very RNG based. So, I don't like to rely on Crit too much, sure more crit Helps... But, Crit = RNG and RNG = Not Good. and I don't use Vital Shot in my rotation because I don't like DoT's in my Ranged Burst Class... If I wanted DoT's I would play Dirty Fighting now would I?

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I'm no mathematician, but I look at Crit chance as an RNG reduction, a little crit makes your DPS more "stable" in the long run. I _feel_ that I'm doing more reliable high dps with a couple mods in my gear, we're talking 100-200ish crit chance. This doesn't hurt your top potential, but increases my low ceiling DPS, if you understand what I mean.

 

Look at the top Dummy parses, they usually have very low or no crit chance, so those parses are really out of the norm lucky parses. I would be interested in looking at average and low/top end parses in the 10s or more from the same people topping the charts. It's the average or median I'm most interested in :)

 

36/3/7 is the best single target build, no question (unless you can use the heal bugged relics).

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I'm no mathematician, but I look at Crit chance as an RNG reduction, a little crit makes your DPS more "stable" in the long run. I _feel_ that I'm doing more reliable high dps with a couple mods in my gear, we're talking 100-200ish crit chance. This doesn't hurt your top potential, but increases my low ceiling DPS, if you understand what I mean.

 

Look at the top Dummy parses, they usually have very low or no crit chance, so those parses are really out of the norm lucky parses. I would be interested in looking at average and low/top end parses in the 10s or more from the same people topping the charts. It's the average or median I'm most interested in :)

 

36/3/7 is the best single target build, no question (unless you can use the heal bugged relics).

 

Yes, that's correct. More crit rating makes your dps more stable (althought that effect is very small).

 

Little example: 2 persons with the same gear..., one has 7% crit Rating more, the other one does 5% more damage (with 70% surge thats ~the same average damage).

 

First person does let's say 27% crit on average. If this person is lucky and get's a 5% higher crit rating, he deals ~3,5% more damage then on average.

 

The other Person has 20% crit Rating. If this Person is lucky and get's 5% more crit, the damage is also increased by the same amount, but his attacks generally deal 5% more damage. So the second Person get's a 5% higher increase in damage then the first Person, when he get's lucky aswell.

 

The reason for that is, that both builds deals ~ the same damage, but each single attack of the power build person is stronger. So if you get more crit rating then usual you will do more damage then a crit build cause each individual buffed attack is stronger then each attack from a crit build.

 

That' also the reason, a large number of top dps parses, are just full power/close to full power builds hoping for high crit rating.

 

So, on average a crit build deals more stable dps, but in very short term scenarios (something like < 5 global cooldowns), were not critting with a single ability is actually a possible scenario, a power build wins the run for more reliable dps.

 

Basically:

Long-term sustained fight: Crit build

Short-term burst fight: Power build

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Yes, that's correct. More crit rating makes your dps more stable (althought that effect is very small).

 

Little example: 2 persons with the same gear..., one has 7% crit Rating more, the other one does 5% more damage (with 70% surge thats ~the same average damage).

 

First person does let's say 27% crit on average. If this person is lucky and get's a 5% higher crit rating, he deals ~3,5% more damage then on average.

 

The other Person has 20% crit Rating. If this Person is lucky and get's 5% more crit, the damage is also increased by the same amount, but his attacks generally deal 5% more damage. So the second Person get's a 5% higher increase in damage then the first Person, when he get's lucky aswell.

 

The reason for that is, that both builds deals ~ the same damage, but each single attack of the power build person is stronger. So if you get more crit rating then usual you will do more damage then a crit build cause each individual buffed attack is stronger then each attack from a crit build.

 

That' also the reason, a large number of top dps parses, are just full power/close to full power builds hoping for high crit rating.

 

So, on average a crit build deals more stable dps, but in very short term scenarios (something like < 5 global cooldowns), were not critting with a single ability is actually a possible scenario, a power build wins the run for more reliable dps.

 

Basically:

Long-term sustained fight: Crit build

Short-term burst fight: Power build

Hi Zahik. Important to note that in some situations it isn't as black and white as that, such as when there are buffs to crit chance or surge in the trees. Marksman/Sharpshooter has massive surge buffs to a few key abilities which may make crit more desirable to a certain degree.

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Hi Zahik. Important to note that in some situations it isn't as black and white as that, such as when there are buffs to crit chance or surge in the trees. Marksman/Sharpshooter has massive surge buffs to a few key abilities which may make crit more desirable to a certain degree.

 

That's something that's normally in that calculation already. What you normallly should do, is calculating the theoretic best crit rating (that's ~450 for merc healer and so on depending on the surge bonus each individual tree gets) to have a certain value.

 

And with that theoretic best crit rating you can play around.

Either you use more crit then calculated, if you want to have better long term sustained damage/healing, or you use less crit then calculated if you want short term burst damage/healing.

 

This is the point were the math fails (as such a generic math can't reflect all the possible raid situations) and you can only give these general advices :).

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I do know that we get 30% Surge on our vital abilities, but the thing is, Crits are very RNG based. So, I don't like to rely on Crit too much, sure more crit Helps... But, Crit = RNG and RNG = Not Good. and I don't use Vital Shot in my rotation because I don't like DoT's in my Ranged Burst Class... If I wanted DoT's I would play Dirty Fighting now would I?

 

Are you trolling me? you're trolling me aren't you.

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