Kaggath Tournament - Sol'yc Empire vs Droid Supremacy

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well they're basically the cousins of the B2, same voice, same higher programming, similar posture, able to switch out arms for Grenades/Rockets...

 

Well I know, but I thought you were meaning actual B2s.

[Aurbere]

Interesting... I've only seen the B2 variants.

 

However, B1 aqua droids were not in the army as of Naboo if I remember correctly

And we don't know who manufactured them.

 

Edit: Do you mean the TV show battle? Because those were B2s... I think

 

I very clearly remember B1 Battle droids piloting underwater craft in the original Clone Wars cartoon. And I should know, I own the DVDs and have watched them many, many times.

[Selenial]

I think you're forgetting the fact that G0-T0's original programming was infrastructure planning for entire worlds. Essentially, he made sure that worlds ran smoothly and worked towards the betterment of the government they served.

The droid...broke

 

With that in mind, what's stopping G0-T0 from letting the Mon Calamari do what they want? Their civilization is meaningless to him, all he needs are their shipyards. If he gives them support and protection, along with extreme wealth, for their services, why not give him ships? Droid Supremacy troops could never set foot on the surface, agreeing to stay in the shipyards.

He's a crime boss. They have massively strong morals. They stood up against a fleet of thousands of Imperial Star Destroyers because they didnt like the tyranny of the empire...

Simply put, the mon Calamari won't take kindly to crime bosses.

 

Mon Calamari don't like being ruled? Try being ruled by Mandalorians. You know, the warrior people that bombard entire worlds. Somehow I don't think Mandalorian culture or tactics would sit well with the Mon Calamari.

Not as bad as a crime boss. I think the Mon Cala would much rather be in a republic-like Mandalorian society than a droid run crime ring.

 

Also, nothing G0-T0 is doing is illegal. Obviously it's all legal under the law of the Droid Supremacy.

It's Immoral.

 

And on this whole thing about Mon Calamari ships not being made for droids? The Black Sun Navy acquired these ships around 123 ABY. And they were obviously piloted by Black Sun members. Droids are just as good at piloting capital ships as biological beings are. That shouldn't be a problem.

Lol, B1's sucked in space

 

No but seriously, the ships were all unique, completely unique, none of their design layouts were the same or anything. Basically meaning a droid would be fine on one ship, but terrible on the others. No one could use the ships to their maximum effectiveness unless they'd served on the ship and knew it like the back of their hand.

[Selenial]

I very clearly remember B1 Battle droids piloting underwater craft in the original Clone Wars cartoon. And I should know, I own the DVDs and have watched them many, many times.

 

Problem is, it seems the 2008+ series over-rode that series.

 

The Calamari and Quarren are fine at the start of the Arc, they're JUST beginning to get at odds again, there's no way they had been fighting like that during the war. So yeh, I think the new version is meant to be the official one...

[Aurbere]

Problem is, it seems the 2008+ series over-rode that series.

 

The Calamari and Quarren are fine at the start of the Arc, they're JUST beginning to get at odds again, there's no way they had been fighting like that during the war. So yeh, I think the new version is meant to be the official one...

 

Lame...

[tunewalker]

Problem is, it seems the 2008+ series over-rode that series.

 

The Calamari and Quarren are fine at the start of the Arc, they're JUST beginning to get at odds again, there's no way they had been fighting like that during the war. So yeh, I think the new version is meant to be the official one...

 

Last I heard the original Clone wars Cartoon was still C-cannon UNLESS there was somthing in 100% direct conflict with it in the newer series. As such nothing in conflict here, its valid and counts move along.

[Warren-Stride]

He's a crime boss.

 

No. He's not.

 

He's the ruler of the Droid Supremacy.

 

Someone is a criminal when they break the laws of a government. G0-T0 IS the government.

 

It's immoral.

Lol, what's immoral? Everything G0-T0 does is immoral, is that it? G0-T0 funneled wealth to dozens of world to keep them from going bankrupt WHILE being a 'crime boss.' He might have odds ways of doing it, but G0-T0 has always looked out for the betterment of citizens of the Republic, and now he has the same mentality about the citizens of the Droid Supremacy. To say that he will treat his people, resources, or worlds badly is unfounded and insulting to his character.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[ShadowMudkip]

While the DS may have the SE outgunned in space, its worth noting that the SE has far superior tacticians. A really, truly great tactician can make even the worst odds livable.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Problem is, it seems the 2008+ series over-rode that series.

 

The Calamari and Quarren are fine at the start of the Arc, they're JUST beginning to get at odds again, there's no way they had been fighting like that during the war. So yeh, I think the new version is meant to be the official one...

 

Some parts of the mini series are still valid, only things that wouldn't be is if TCW showed something that the mini series showned then that wouldn't be valid.

 

Of course also some of what the chars did in the mini series aren't valid either, but for the most part you could still use it.

[Selenial]

Last I heard the original Clone wars Cartoon was still C-cannon UNLESS there was somthing in 100% direct conflict with it in the newer series. As such nothing in conflict here, its valid and counts move along.

 

But there is a MAJOR conflict here.

 

The entire story line.

 

Both Focus on the Quarren wanting succession for the first time in years, moving against the Mon Cala, both say it's the First time the treaty has broken down in years. The 2008 series clearly remade that chapter of the old series.

[tunewalker]

But there is a MAJOR conflict here.

 

The entire story line.

 

Both Focus on the Quarren wanting succession for the first time in years, moving against the Mon Cala, both say it's the First time the treaty has broken down in years. The 2008 series clearly remade that chapter of the old series.

 

I dont see a conflict honestly. The war was long more then 1 battle was had. Both could have been different battles of the same war. I see no conflict.

[Selenial]

No. He's not.

 

He's the ruler of the Droid Supremacy.

 

Someone is a criminal when they break the laws of a government. G0-T0 IS the government.

 

[/color]

Lol, what's immoral? Everything G0-T0 does is immoral, is that it? G0-T0 funneled wealth to dozens of world to keep them from going bankrupt WHILE being a 'crime boss.' He might have odds ways of doing it, but G0-T0 has always looked out for the betterment of citizens of the Republic, and now he has the same mentality about the citizens of the Droid Supremacy. To say that he will treat his people, resources, or worlds badly is unfounded and insulting to his character.

*Sigh* One last time.

 

The whole point of this was that the mon Cala don't care if you're a government and legitimate or not, if they don't agree with you, they're not joining you and certainly not helping you.

 

The Empire, that's a legitimate, galaxy spanning government, but the Mon Cala didn't like how they acted so they barricaded themselves in their planet, and basically told the massive Imperial fleets to F*** off, because there's no chance of getting in...

 

And it's all about Image Warren, no matter what he's trying to do, the Galaxy see's him as a crime boss, simple, all of them think he's just some Exchange thug, wanna be Hutt, who wants more power. They don't know/care about what he tries to do for infrastructure.

[Selenial]

I dont see a conflict honestly. The war was long more then 1 battle was had. Both could have been different battles of the same war. I see no conflict.

 

Because both of them had the peace talks breaking down?

Both of them started with them fine.

Then Dooku Got involved.

Then the Treaty Broke.

Then the Quarren moved against the Calamari council.

Then the republic landed on world to help.

Then all out war.

 

Both stories are exactly the same, except of course, the involvement of the Prince and Ackbar. And the fact the 2008 one is way longer and in depth.

[tunewalker]

Because both of them had the peace talks breaking down?

Both of them started with them fine.

Then Dooku Got involved.

Then the Treaty Broke.

Then the Quarren moved against the Calamari council.

Then the republic landed on world to help.

Then all out war.

 

Both stories are exactly the same, except of course, the involvement of the Prince and Ackbar. And the fact the 2008 one is way longer and in depth.

 

So in other words exactly like i said... no conflict same story different versions all are true. It doesnt over-write it the battle sequence is just different but not conflicting as far as I am hearing. In fact they both kind of just reinforce each other.

[Warren-Stride]

And it's all about Image Warren...

 

Which is why I'm confused as to why you think the Mon Calamari would side with the Sol'yc Empire.

 

All the galaxy sees when they look at Mandalorians are blood-thirsty brutes who love to conquer and dominate. Oh, and once word gets out that Boba Fett, Vader's main man bounty hunter, is working for the SE? Yeah, I'm sure that'd go over just swell for the 'image' of the Sol'yc Empire.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[Selenial]

So in other words exactly like i said... no conflict same story different versions all are true. It doesnt over-write it the battle sequence is just different but not conflicting as far as I am hearing. In fact they both kind of just reinforce each other.

 

Yes, but the 2008 version was quite clearly a remake, they had different troops, new commanders, they dove into the story way more and tried to make it fit in with Canon unlike the original series... instead of saying both things happened at once in the exact same spot at the exact same time ripping apart the space time continuum, it makes sense to just go with Version #2.

[tunewalker]

Yes, but the 2008 version was quite clearly a remake, they had different troops, new commanders, they dove into the story way more and tried to make it fit in with Canon unlike the original series... instead of saying both things happened at once in the exact same spot at the exact same time ripping apart the space time continuum, it makes sense to just go with Version #2.

 

The planet is large... the war would have been large. You can have both depictions of the fight happen at the same time because both fights could have happened at the same time at different locations on the battle field. Again no Conflict move along.

[Selenial]

The planet is large... the war would have been large. You can have both depictions of the fight happen at the same time because both fights could have happened at the same time at different locations on the battle field. Again no Conflict move along.

 

How is Kit Fisto in two places at once?

 

And why would they use 2 different armies each...

[tunewalker]

How is Kit Fisto in two places at once?

 

And why would they use 2 different armies each...

 

How many days did the battle happen over...... did they show you ever single minute of those days in 2008 series.... no...... OMG no conflict move along.

[Selenial]

Which is why I'm confused as to why you think the Mon Calamari would side with the Sol'yc Empire.

 

All the galaxy sees when they look at Mandalorians are blood-thirsty brutes who love to conquer and dominate. Oh, and once word gets out that Boba Fett, Vader's main man bounty hunter, is working for the SE? Yeah, I'm sure that'd go over just swell for the 'image' of the Sol'yc Empire.

 

Oh they don't have to join the SE...

They'd go independent, or get invaded by the SE. Because the SE has a chance of having the troops to deal with them, or broker a deal. Sure, it's got Boba, but it also has Jedi to boost the standard a little. And of course, Nek Bwua'tu...

 

Over all, they come off a hell of a lot better than G0-T0

[Selenial]

How many days did the battle happen over...... did they show you ever single minute of those days in 2008 series.... no...... OMG no conflict move along.

 

Except the story followed them from start to finish, and it supposedly happened in less than a Week.

 

Also, not to mention the fact that even if it's a 2 year battle, they probably wouldn't have different armies entirely.

 

Let's not also forget, we see Kit Fisto land twice etc... There is literally no reason to keep considering the 2003 version as Canon, it makes no sense.

 

Even Aurbere conceded this, don't understand why you refuse to.

[tunewalker]

Except the story followed them from start to finish, and it supposedly happened in less than a Week.

 

Also, not to mention the fact that even if it's a 2 year battle, they probably wouldn't have different armies entirely.

 

Let's not also forget, we see Kit Fisto land twice etc... There is literally no reason to keep considering the 2003 version as Canon, it makes no sense.

 

Even Aurbere conceded this, don't understand why you refuse to.

 

Several days... and he never had any rest returned to any ship and they never used different units at any time during the war to try to gain any edge when it had been days of fighting. Honestly you havent shown an actual conflict, just because some one else concedes doesnt mean it is correct to concede. The story lines mesh up with one another confirming the over arcing story is correct for both. The fact that the battle lasted several days and you cant possibly show every second of battle footage in the 2008 series (it would take more then 2 seasons worth of episodes to just show 1 day of fighting) means that some of the stuff that happened in the earlier version can be and IS still cannon as there isn't anything to TRULY conflict with it.

Edited January 24, 2014 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

Several days... and he never had any rest returned to any ship and they never used different units at any time during the war to try to gain any edge when it had been days of fighting. Honestly you havent shown an actual conflict, just because some one else concedes doesnt mean it is correct to concede. The story lines mesh up with one another confirming the over arcing story is correct for both. The fact that the battle lasted several days and you cant possibly show every second of battle footage in the 2008 series (it would take more then 2 seasons worth of episodes to just show 1 day of fighting) means that some of the stuff that happened in the earlier version can be and IS still cannon as there isn't anything to TRULY conflict with it.

 

You're not understanding me.

Kit Fisto was there the entire battle, because he had to be, they split up to stop detection from the Seperatists, they had NO chance of being able to escape, no ships or nothing. They couldn't flee, couldn't get new troops, couldn't get reinforcements or leave.

 

The Droids also didn't switch out to B1's, there was no reason to when they'd designed droids just to be used in aquatic scenarios.

 

Either way, I'm done with this conversation, Beni's probably seen the Arcs, so he can decide.

Either way it doesn't matter to this debate, bar wether or not Warrens droids work underwater.

[tunewalker]

You're not understanding me.

Kit Fisto was there the entire battle, because he had to be, they split up to stop detection from the Seperatists, they had NO chance of being able to escape, no ships or nothing. They couldn't flee, couldn't get new troops, couldn't get reinforcements or leave.

 

The Droids also didn't switch out to B1's, there was no reason to when they'd designed droids just to be used in aquatic scenarios.

 

Either way, I'm done with this conversation, Beni's probably seen the Arcs, so he can decide.

Either way it doesn't matter to this debate, bar wether or not Warrens droids work underwater.

 

I think what you are failing to understand what I am talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYXJZCkN0Hg Start at 10:50 there is a clear cut just the moment before. This could be days into the battle. The number of droids could be diminished thus they are using what they have left. I could watch the arc you are talking about and still pull the same thing out. The battles lasted DAYS no series is going to show every moment of every battle, thus both can be correct depictions of battles at different times and if they CAN BE then they ARE by rules of cannon.

[Beniboybling]

Nor was that any of our intent when we gave you the numbers.....If you understanding my meaning. The capital ships were the easiest to calculate and get a solid number on so thats what we gave you. Its implied after that we have the bells and whistles along with it including frigates and Support ships which thanks to Warren we now have a better idea of the numbers of those in comparison to capital ships.

 

The only question now is when star said 900 did he mean 900 Capital or just pure 900. AkA did he do like me and Rayla did or was he all encompassing.

OK, I'll sort that out later.

 

900 ships was a number decided by myself, and it encompasses the entire fleet, starfighters aside.