Kaggath Tournament - Sol'yc Empire vs Droid Supremacy

[Warren-Stride]

Correction: G0-T0 does not have access to his yacht.

Oh, right, that's a thing. But the Exchange can undoubtably acquire a similar ship, or at least one with a cloaking device. If not, G0-T0 has many other ways to disappear, like the decoys.

[Aurbere]

I'm going to need some more detail on this whole 'Droid Revolution' thing before I pick a side.

[Beniboybling]

While I do feel the same, I feel it is best to ensure your victory. Is that not how Sidious took over the galaxy?

And Sidious was such a nice guy.

[Warren-Stride]

I'm going to need some more detail on this whole 'Droid Revolution' thing before I pick a side.

 

I think someone else needs to explain it other than me, because I feel like if I do it'll seem biased or exaggerated. Researching the "Great Droid Revolution" on Wookieepedia and HK-01's profile will give you the basic info. SWTOR actually has a codex entry for it to that can be found via the internet.

[Selenial]

I think someone else needs to explain it other than me, because I feel like if I do it'll seem biased or exaggerated. Researching the "Great Droid Revolution" on Wookieepedia and HK-01's profile will give you the basic info. SWTOR actually has a codex entry for it to that can be found via the internet.

 

I'll try here, I feel i've got an equal chance against both of you (Not that it's a good chance) So I should stay unbiased

 

The exact details on how HK manages to do this is unknown, so we did speculate a lot, but in Short, he manages to send Signals to all droids in an area and implants something in them, a Virus, a Freedom Software, or something like that. He convinces them that they're equal to the Humans, and should be treated equally, and that the only way to do this is to rise up and show them they're equal through War and Violence. Hence, The Great Droid Revolution.

 

A couple of things though, we don't know how he reprogrammed them, weather it was done by Radio Signal or by hand, we also don't know how long it took, or how easy it is to reverse...

 

 

So it's pretty open.

[Beniboybling]

If I recall it was established that all HK-01 needs is some means of transmitting data to the droids via a wireless connection at which point he can transmit the code into the droids and take them over. However that code can be hacked and traced and if the source is destroyed or the connection is lost the droids will return to normal.

[LadyKulvax]

Which is precisely why I am so cautious about using these kind of tactics, it's the same as defection debates, no one will ever agree and I am not entirely sure it's fair to use them, IMO.

 

I mean someone could have a great faction going for them but all of a sudden, one of their crucial leadership members defects, any and all plans that may have been used previously are jeopardised and suddenly a faction that otherwise would have outright lost becomes the winner by a completely different factor, that faction gets through and then gets curbstomped in the winner's bracket when the faction that lost may have stood a chance.(just a scenario)

 

It's just the type of thing I am really not in favour of, I'd much prefer these tournaments to be left to all out war, guerilla war, etc... not betrayal tactics which no one can account for, it's almost always an entirely biased affair as well.

 

Again, just my opinion.

[Selenial]

If I recall it was established that all HK-01 needs is some means of transmitting data to the droids via a wireless connection at which point he can transmit the code into the droids and take them over. However that code can be hacked and traced and if the source is destroyed or the connection is lost the droids will return to normal.

 

But why did we come to that conclusion? I don't see any evidence to that being the case...

[Aurbere]

Which is precisely why I am so cautious about using these kind of tactics, it's the same as defection debates, no one will ever agree and I am not entirely sure it's fair to use them, IMO.

 

I mean someone could have a great faction going for them but all of a sudden, one of their crucial leadership members defects, any and all plans that may have been used previously are jeopardised and suddenly a faction that otherwise would have outright lost becomes the winner by a completely different factor, that faction gets through and then gets curbstomped in the winner's bracket when the faction that lost may have stood a chance.(just a scenario)

 

It's just the type of thing I am really not in favour of, I'd much prefer these tournaments to be left to all out war, guerilla war, etc... not betrayal tactics which no one can account for, it's almost always an entirely biased affair as well.

 

Again, just my opinion.

 

I must agree here.

[Selenial]

I must agree here.

 

And I see the opposite side, if someone is brought into a faction for the specific purpose of being able to subtract droids from the equation, how is that any different to someone brought in for use of a Virus, or Assassination, or Military Prowess?

[Aurbere]

A couple of things though, we don't know how he reprogrammed them, weather it was done by Radio Signal or by hand, we also don't know how long it took, or how easy it is to reverse...

 

 

So it's pretty open.

 

Hmm... well that's the thing isn't it?

[Aurbere]

And I see the opposite side, if someone is brought into a faction for the specific purpose of being able to subtract droids from the equation, how is that any different to someone brought in for use of a Virus, or Assassination, or Military Prowess?

 

I was specifically referring to defections, not the whole Droid Revolution deal. We don't know if defections are a certainty (unless you get a bad pairing/match-up). Such arguments can take forever to sort out when they should be focused on other matters of the Kaggath.

[Beniboybling]

But why did we come to that conclusion? I don't see any evidence to that being the case...

Cause reasons.

[Selenial]

I was specifically referring to defections, not the whole Droid Revolution deal. We don't know if defections are a certainty (unless you get a bad pairing/match-up). Such arguments can take forever to sort out when they should be focused on other matters of the Kaggath.

 

But still, had I picked a stronger sith than Maul as an ally, the Argument is perfectly valid and well reasoned, though I do admit I only see defections in factions either containing, or revolving around, the Dark Side.

[LadyKulvax]

And I see the opposite side, if someone is brought into a faction for the specific purpose of being able to subtract droids from the equation, how is that any different to someone brought in for use of a Virus, or Assassination, or Military Prowess?

 

This isn't specifically aimed at one party, this is about that betrayal business as a whole.

 

I almost expect that some people become wary of choosing certain characters in fear of them defecting, I think it's a very dirty business and one that can never be argued fairly, which is why I think it's a bad idea in general.

 

Defections are highly debatable and they are also something neither side can prepare for and it seems almost unfair in a way, a faction that should lose to another cleanly could find themselves all of a sudden getting one of the opposing faction's leaders and then a major plan where they win instead of lose comes about, it is on a whole not a good idea.

 

It could also just frankly create a bad atmosphere for the person that does lose because of a defection, they are going to feel.. well... screwed to be blunt and I honestly think as the tournament grows it might become something of a cluster**** starter.

 

I am not saying Hk-01 can't hack droids, clearly the machine can, but I am talking about the larger picture of the Kaggath as a whole.

Edited January 13, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

This isn't specifically aimed at one party, this is about that betrayal business as a whole.

 

I almost expect that some people become wary of choosing certain characters in fear of them defecting, I think it's a very dirty business and one that can never be argued fairly, which is why I think it's a bad idea in general.

 

Defections are highly debatable and they are also something neither side can prepare for.

 

I am not saying Hk-01 can't hack droids, clearly the machine can, but I am talking about the larger picture of the Kaggath as a whole.

Funnily enough I'm planning on implementing a new rule to prevent that, somewhat. Though it won't remove what I feel is an important aspect of faction building, compatibility.

 

I mean I'm not about to let absurd factions with say Anakin and Ventress as allies into the Kaggath.

 

Thought not sure what this has to do with HK-01?

[LadyKulvax]

Funnily enough I'm planning on implementing a new rule to prevent that, somewhat. Though it won't remove what I feel is an important aspect of faction building, compatibility.

 

I mean I'm not about to let absurd factions with say Anakin and Ventress as allies into the Kaggath.

 

Thought not sure what this has to do with HK-01?

 

Oh well of course not, compatibility is definitely a factor that should be involved, but defections during a Kaggath is just plain bad business, check my edit for just one reason why.

 

And oh i was just letting Selenial know that this isn't about him, I am not arguing the case that Hk-01 can or cannot hack droids in this specific scenario (though it's within his abilities in general), just wanted to make that clear.

Edited January 13, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

Oh well of course not, compatibility is definitely a factor that should be involved, but defections during a Kaggath is just plain bad business, check my edit for just one reason why.

And again in the next Kaggath lets just say loyalties will be more solid.

 

But anyway, back to the Droid Revolution. I got my facts a bit wrong, still from memory but I think we concluded that HK-01 could hack the droids through wireless communication (which is how it became an inter-planetary pandemic) but if the connection was lost he would lose control of the droids and be unable to relay orders.

 

Also the transmission can be hacked and traced as this was how HK-01 was tracked down.

 

EDIT: Wait! I was right the first time, the droid behavior would go back to normal. Well, based on the fact that when G0-T0's droid army was destroyed the droids resumed their normal behaviour, but I suppose we can't be sure on that so I'll leave that particular detail up for debate and perhaps look over old arguments.

 

However what we can say is the virus is transmitted wirelessly.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

If we are planning on discussing this Droid Revolution business, we should discuss how effective it will be in this situation.

 

On a side-yet-somewhat-related-note: I recall the Separatists doing something similar, but I can't recall how effective it was.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Aurbere

[Selenial]

I mean I'm not about to let absurd factions with say Anakin and Ventress as allies into the Kaggath.

 

I could actually imagine that, to an extent.

[Beniboybling]

I could actually imagine that, to an extent.

OK Darth Maul and Obi-Wan Kenobi, try that one on for size.

[Selenial]

OK Darth Maul and Obi-Wan Kenobi, try that one on for size.

 

That's better

[StarSquirrel]

Defections are highly debatable and they are also something neither side can prepare for and it seems almost unfair in a way, a faction that should lose to another cleanly could find themselves all of a sudden getting one of the opposing faction's leaders and then a major plan where they win instead of lose comes about, it is on a whole not a good idea.

 

I am not saying Hk-01 can't hack droids, clearly the machine can, but I am talking about the larger picture of the Kaggath as a whole.

Actually I did plan my faction around preventing defections... and I made it this far.

 

On a serious note, loyalty comes at the price of power often times (powerful individuals tend to seek more power/friends/enemies ect...) so it makes loyalty a tactical decision (similarly to limiting the number of force users). It can be messy and what not, but in the end we have Beni to sort it all out and to blame when it doesn't go our way.

 

For example, I chose Tenel Ka as my leader and Nek as my SiC. Both are allies and have worked together in the past so unless someone threw Daala in the mix I'd be fine (even then its a toss-up). Jaina is loyal to Tenel Ka, and Boba is loyal to Jaina and Mandalore. The loyalty web ensures a stable faction even if I give up some power by taking Tenel Ka and Boba instead of a stronger sith (like my #2 choice Kun) and a "better" bounty hunter (Durge for example)

 

Regardless I'm hardly overattatched to the idea of defections and would be fine either way.

Edited January 13, 2014 by StarSquirrel

[Warren-Stride]

If we are planning on discussing this Droid Revolution business, we should discuss how effective it will be in this situation.

 

Agreed.

 

HK-01 hacked Juggernaut War Droids over Coruscant, the only specific type of droid we know he corrupted, though it's obvious he caused many other types of droids to rebel as well. The Juggernaut War Droids are a class of battle droid.

 

With that in mind, both Basilisk war droids and BL-series Battle Legionnaire droids are of the battle-droid class. So it stands to reason that HK-01 could corrupt them as well. Although still not sure about the Basilisks because they're extremely advanced.

 

The HK-50s may be "independent," but so was R2-D2. He wasn't hooked up to a mainframe. However, we know that HK-01 was able to hack protocol droids, who are also just as independent as HK-50s. Not only that, but HK-50s are designed to kill biological beings. Convincing them via programming to execute their objective unhindered by orders should be easy.

 

On the note of HK-50s hacking other droids, the only example we have of this is the Peragus Mining Facility. Unfortunately, this kind of hacking could only be accomplished via direct uplink with the droid or the module controling it, as evidenced by the fact that T3-M4 did not spontaneously turn evil due to any signal or interaction with the other droids. So although HKs could hack other droids, they would need a much more direct uplink. And by the time they did that, HK-01 would have undoubtedly corrupted their own programming, de-motivating their want to aid biological beings.

 

To add onto that, HK-50s had a sense of free will. They believed killing was a mass slaughter and had a kill "who we want, when we want" attitude. Considering that they're made to kill biological beings, the HK-50s may even support G0-T0 voluntarily. (Stretching it, I know)

Edited January 13, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[tunewalker]

Actually I did plan my faction around preventing defections... and I made it this far.

 

On a serious note, loyalty comes at the price of power often times (powerful individuals tend to seek more power/friends/enemies ect...) so it makes loyalty a tactical decision (similarly to limiting the number of force users). It can be messy and what not, but in the end we have Beni to sort it all out and to blame when it doesn't go our way.

 

For example, I chose Tenel Ka as my leader and Nek as my SiC. Both are allies and have worked together in the past so unless someone threw Daala in the mix I'd be fine (even then its a toss-up). Jaina is loyal to Tenel Ka, and Boba is loyal to Jaina and Mandalore. The loyalty web ensures a stable faction even if I give up some power by taking Tenel Ka and Boba instead of a stronger sith (like my #2 choice Kun) and a "better" bounty hunter (Durge for example)

 

Regardless I'm hardly overattatched to the idea of defections and would be fine either way.

 

Not much different with mine honestly Brother and Sister as 1 and 2 one of their best friends as an ally the only iffy one is the bounty hunter and all you need to keep them around is a steady pay check, especially when said bounty hunter is a droid (though if I run into Warren that could cause me issues).