Dadovakhiin Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 that's quite diffrent then calling the class a useless laughing stock did you already play the commando in an Arena ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSpekulatius Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 what do you think would happen to a BIS 78 Mando Heal (-one relic) in ranked? Mandos are fine for pvp though, remove the Interrupt CD reducing talents, the lockout Interrupt places on you, remove the secondary effects from leap and they'll be just as good as Scoundrels. so the awnswer is no but I've been healed by Mandos in regs here and there if they know what they're doing and you watch over them a bit they can keep an ~69pve geared Infiltration Shadow (with unoptimized throwntogether FP drops) alive easily enough. (that's my only char who has a set of Equipment that's not full 78 with one or two 72s) but my vanguard has only two more levels to go since i don't plan on leveling another char so the time before ops will be freed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerAcalan Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 ....and they'll be just as good as Scoundrels. Must... resist... crippling... laughter.... until... affairs... are in order... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windogie Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I like this idea, but I feel it could be 'exploited' (lack of a better term) to get to the battlefield quickly. For example: Sort of like the scoundrel/operative roll at 55. I'm going to change the description to what I think would be best (I'll put in bold what I changed/added): Emergency Blast-off: Instant Heat: 12 Cooldown: (45 seconds) Limitations: Only useable in combat, drops Huttball when used (if you have it) Overloads your jet-pack (or rocket boots(if you're a commando)) and rockets you up and away from your location 25m forward in the direction your camera is facing. The exhaust-wash and shock-wave from the blast off will knock-down and stun up to (XX) enemies within a (YY) meter radius of the blast-off for (ZZ) seconds. Due to the heat from your landing, this ability also reveals stealthed opponents where you land in a 7 meter radius. This ability is de-coupled from the Global Cool-down, and can be used whilst rooted but not while stunned. Talents: (I figure two talent-points, per the usual [50/100%] chance of giving these effects) What do you guys think of my additions/changes to the idea? You cannot compare that to scoundrel scamper since it has a cd. You pretty much combined operative roll with sniper roll for no reason. Sniper roll isn't OP only the exploits linked to it are. No sniper not even eng that has two rolls back to back can get that far with it and no further than a sorc/sin with force speed but the difference is you lose potential dps because you spec into it doing damage. Which is the same as was originally said. Other than that a little cd nerf to the original is fine it doesn't matter it's still lower than our others but that heat would kill us. Also self hammershot heal is pointless if it doesn't build charges since you now have multitarget trauma probe which makes the 2 points you have to use to get frontline medic actually do something. Instead of using it on yourself dps a enemy with it and gain charges while your trauma probe heals you off of the procs instead of wasting the gcds doing a bad heal that doesn't help your future heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essence_of_Light Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) You cannot compare that to scoundrel scamper since it has a cd. You pretty much combined operative roll with sniper roll for no reason. Sniper roll isn't OP only the exploits linked to it are. No sniper not even eng that has two rolls back to back can get that far with it and no further than a sorc/sin with force speed but the difference is you lose potential dps because you spec into it doing damage. Which is the same as was originally said. Other than that a little cd nerf to the original is fine it doesn't matter it's still lower than our others but that heat would kill us. Also self hammershot heal is pointless if it doesn't build charges since you now have multitarget trauma probe which makes the 2 points you have to use to get frontline medic actually do something. Instead of using it on yourself dps a enemy with it and gain charges while your trauma probe heals you off of the procs instead of wasting the gcds doing a bad heal that doesn't help your future heals. Um... Im sorry, but where in my post did I say that the Sniper/Gunslinger roll was OP? If I recall correctly I said the Scoundrel/Operative roll was OP.... Other than that your post seemed to confused me. Where in my post did I talk about the self heal hammershot or trauma probe??? And what do you mean by, "You pretty much combined operative roll with sniper roll for no reason"? Edited January 9, 2014 by Essence_of_Light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windogie Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Um... Im sorry, but where in my post did I say that the Sniper/Gunslinger roll was OP? If I recall correctly I said the Scoundrel/Operative roll was OP.... Other than that your post seemed to confused me. Where in my post did I talk about the self heal hammershot or trauma probe??? And what do you mean by, "You pretty much combined operative roll with sniper roll for no reason"? Second part was just over this topic should of put it on another post sorry. I was trying to convey that the leap that was opted to be a new ability isnt like scoundrel roll and cannot be used to get around the battle since it has a 20s cd. Scamper=No cd costs energy Covered escape=no energy cost but has cd and has damage abilities linked through skill points Your idea on this new ability=Energy costs+cd+damage abilites linked See what I was trying to say now? It kinda combined the 2 and made it kinda useless since our heat system is stretched as is and your reasoning was it would be like scoundrel scamper which it isnt and cant be used to get around effectively hope that was clearer I dont type good, I see it in my head but cant convey it. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSpekulatius Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Must... resist... crippling... laughter.... until... affairs... are in order... lol you quotet the part of my post that is bound to happen sooner or later and ignoring that the changes i Proposed won't ever happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essence_of_Light Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Second part was just over this topic should of put it on another post sorry. I was trying to convey that the leap that was opted to be a new ability isnt like scoundrel roll and cannot be used to get around the battle since it has a 20s cd. Scamper=No cd costs energy Covered escape=no energy cost but has cd and has damage abilities linked through skill points Your idea on this new ability=Energy costs+cd+damage abilites linked See what I was trying to say now? It kinda combined the 2 and made it kinda useless since our heat system is stretched as is and your reasoning was it would be like scoundrel scamper which it isnt and cant be used to get around effectively hope that was clearer I dont type good, I see it in my head but cant convey it. Sorry Ahh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up. And I totally agree with you about how stretched out our ammo/energy costs are. Imo, I hope Bioware address the issue of ammo/energy management before they do anything 'big' (so to speak) with commandos/mercs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockwizzle Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I like this, but.... But, IMHO, it doesn't go far enough on its own. We need to be able to get the f out of melée range right now, and stay out of it at least for a while. So, new ability, class-native, available from somewhere in the middle-game (Again, apologies for the Merconese ) Emergency Blast-off: Instant Heat: 0 Cooldown: (20-30 seconds) Overloads your jet-pack and rockets you up and away from your location 22m forward in the direction your camera is facing. The exhaust-wash and shock-wave from the blast off will knock-down and stun up to (XX) enemies within a (YY) meter radius of the blast-off for (ZZ) seconds. This ability is de-coupled from the Global Cool-down, and can be used whilst physically controlled/impaired. Talents: (I figure two talent-points, per the usual [50/100%] chance of giving these effects) Arsenal: Sonic Shock [1/2]: Your Emergency Blast-off's down-wash/shock-wave has a [50/100]% to deal [XXXX-YYYY] Kinetic damage to up to (some number) of enemies caught in its area of effect. This effect also makes enemies vulnerable to RailShot. Pyro: Chemical Burn [1/2]: Your Emergency Blast-off has a [50/100]% chance to leave a fire burning in its area of effect, burning up to [XX] enemies for [YYYYY] damage over (12-18, let's say) seconds. Enemies who remain in the area of effect are also slowed by 70% as long as they remain in the area for the duration. Standard or weak NPC enemies are also panicked and rendered unable to act by the flames over the duration. BodyGuard: Kolto-Saturated Exhaust [1/2]: Your Emergency Blast-off has a [50/100]% chance to heal up to [some number of-] allies in its area of effect for [XXXX] instantly, and a further [YYYY] over [12-18] seconds. Enemies caught in this effect are slowed by 70% over the duration as long as they remain in the area of effect. Although this effect does not require or consume stacks of Combat Support Cylinder, existing stacks are applied to the healing effect up to a maximum of +3% for 30 stacks. (Experienced healers, feel free to add any creative use of Supercharged Gas to this as well!) It's not just in balancing. This whole game is informed by a disgustingly lazy, intellectually-imprisoned design ethic, quiveringly craven un-willingness to even try and innovate in any way, and almost comically shoddy execution. That's very sad: the Star Wars mythos is worthy of so much better. cool idea i think it would be awesome though if it launched you up in the air aswell to possibly take advantage of maybe a walkway or something that if you aimed it right with the right distance from where you want to go you could launch up to there say out of the pit in huttball or onto the middle part in voidstar, if it did that though it would have the have its distance cut a lil bit so it would not go as far, but atleast then it would not be exactly the same as a roll from a op/scoundrel... kinda just curious how lack luster this next update that is suppose to bring merc/mando up to par is really going to be. i do not want a dps buff as those tend to get nerfed and then no real help is done. we need QOL and utility buffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockwizzle Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Hopefully either this week or next we see a PTS build so we can see what the patch notes are. As far as class changes go I wouldnt expect anything more than what Musco already told us we were getting. just quoting this post of cash's instead of finding the one where he made his suggestion but yeah if stockstrike gave us 2-3 charges of insta cast... we would really have no ammo at all.. i would say it would also have to come with 1-2 stacks of next ability is free or something that way you have to pay for some of it but not all of it. Edit: oh yes and we could probably also use back our charged barrier giving us a total of 10% DR like it used to up from 5% that we have now Edited January 9, 2014 by stockwizzle forgot something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 just quoting this post of cash's instead of finding the one where he made his suggestion but yeah if stockstrike gave us 2-3 charges of insta cast... we would really have no ammo at all.. i would say it would also have to come with 1-2 stacks of next ability is free or something that way you have to pay for some of it but not all of it. Edit: oh yes and we could probably also use back our charged barrier giving us a total of 10% DR like it used to up from 5% that we have now I'm not sure why you think we'd have no ammo at all. Nothing is stopping you from GR > GR > Hammer Shot > GR. GR regens the same ammo whether you cast it or don't so it's just making sure you have the ammo at the beginning of the GCD instead of knowing you'll have it at the end (boy a numerical ammo counter would sure help here BW ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockwizzle Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure why you think we'd have no ammo at all. Nothing is stopping you from GR > GR > Hammer Shot > GR. GR regens the same ammo whether you cast it or don't so it's just making sure you have the ammo at the beginning of the GCD instead of knowing you'll have it at the end (boy a numerical ammo counter would sure help here BW ) if someone is that close to you that you are stock striking them you are most likely using the charges for healing yourself which is much longer than a GCD and cost more. Also if you are using those to heal yourself you should be also healing yourself back to back to get the most out of your charges wasting it on a GR is dumb so yeah ammo gone... Edit: you must be thinking of your PVE rotation. this skill is more based on PVP Edited January 10, 2014 by stockwizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 if someone is that close to you that you are stock striking them you are most likely using the charges for healing yourself which is much longer than a GCD and cost more. Also if you are using those to heal yourself you should be also healing yourself back to back to get the most out of your charges wasting it on a GR is dumb so yeah ammo gone... Edit: you must be thinking of your PVE rotation. this skill is more based on PVP If you used all 2/3 for healing, yea you could be running low on Ammo. Thats why you generally wouldnt want to do that in a DPS spec. The main point of the mechanic would be to allow you to either keep doing damage/keep healing (depending on spec) when you get pressured. Which we really cant do currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 if someone is that close to you that you are stock striking them you are most likely using the charges for healing yourself which is much longer than a GCD and cost more. Also if you are using those to heal yourself you should be also healing yourself back to back to get the most out of your charges wasting it on a GR is dumb so yeah ammo gone... Edit: you must be thinking of your PVE rotation. this skill is more based on PVP Really? I thought the point was to make sure we could run away (with hold the line) while casting so we can keep our damage going, or free ourselves from having to worry about interrupts when we have a melee in our face. Suddenly we would be able to smack them with our heavy hitters (saving Full Auto I'd grant) and it becomes a DPS race which we might actually mean. It's the ability to lock out Grav Round which really starts crippling us under pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockwizzle Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Really? I thought the point was to make sure we could run away (with hold the line) while casting so we can keep our damage going, or free ourselves from having to worry about interrupts when we have a melee in our face. Suddenly we would be able to smack them with our heavy hitters (saving Full Auto I'd grant) and it becomes a DPS race which we might actually mean. It's the ability to lock out Grav Round which really starts crippling us under pressure. true true.. guess it would all have to be situational on health and stuff but i can tell you that ammo will be impacted alot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Unlimited trauma probes charges reduced heal for a lil more last 3 mins cost reduced and the tree changed neat stuff i guess arsenal got pushback stuff lol.... whatever happy overall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeters Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Well, it's good to know the days of "preview" actually meaning "all the changes we have planned, we just don't want to deal with your feedback" are coming firmly to a middle. Really, guys? Why even suggest there are more changes in the works if there aren't other changes in the works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightkin Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) I guess they have some plans for this class thats just not ready to be revealed for some time but i remain doubtful. The entire mechanic behind this class is not designed to face another human player on a higher then average skill lvl. Part of the reason this class was nice at the beginning was super high tracer crits, super easy to play "ok" with and people in general had yet to learn how to play/interupt tbh. Today the story is very different, mercs/commandos can do well if no one starts to harass them. Just compare that to any class that has instant attacks and ok defensive cooldowns, sents-VG (not so good cooldowns but some of the tree skills make up for the lack of it) - Operatives, Assassins ~ their dps will just keep on rolling while you as a commando will stand rooted/slowed with nothing more then hammershot and a 15 second cooldown grenade that crits for about half as a normal instant 2 rage attack does from a mara. Math for pve this works out nicely, but for pvp where actual thinking is applied...it just crash and burns like a bad joke. Edited January 11, 2014 by Nightkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 true true.. guess it would all have to be situational on health and stuff but i can tell you that ammo will be impacted alot Actually it wouldnt be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockwizzle Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 if you all care about the merc/mando class then you should be making your comments in this thread http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=713094&page=10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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