CC Are you kidding me?

[LovarBoy]

Nicely done like the guy you quoted, losing the argument, use a red herring to distract from the fact that you blow hot steam only.

 

I serviced you some arguments and I think there is no sense to give you more - you won't accept it.

[Vales]

I serviced you some arguments and I think there is no sense to give you more - you won't accept it.

 

I already adresesed the points but you just brushed them aside. But it's fine, continue whining under te illusion that there is a lot of CC in SWTOR.

[Beeteel]

I already adresesed the points but you just brushed them aside. But it's fine, continue whining under te illusion that there is a lot of CC in SWTOR.

 

Im sorry but no u did not. Im afraid u are to occupied with winning the argument to be able to see reason

Edited December 28, 2013 by Beeteel

[Savej]

Frost mages blow anything out of the water in SWTOR. My Sorc cannot hold a candle to what my frostmage can inflict as ranged CC. Same goes with rogues, druids and warlocks.

 

Rogues are not worse than Assassins (who have aoe kbs, ranged snares, etc, on top of front stuns/mezzes, knockdowns and vanish-repeat - plus they don't sacrifice dps when they do that). I conceded that frost mages are probably king but fire and arcane mages are not in the same ballpark (even vs sorcs here). And frost mages sacrifice dps for that cc.

 

I can give you a dozen more examples and that is just one class, in arena with the right class and non overlapping DRs it becomes absurd how long you can get CCed there after you blow out your 2 minute CD CC breaker.

I played druid/warlock/mage in arena and a standard hard CC chain goes like this:

Deep Freeze -> Sheep -> Sheep -> Sheep -> Fear -> Fear -> Fear -> Fear -> Cyclone -> Cyclone -> Cyclone. Thats 4+10+5+2.5+10+5+2.5+8+4+2 = 53 seconds and I did not even mention Deathcoil and bear stun in that equation, much less my two frost novas and my spammable no CD slow via Frostbolt....

 

You're talking about single target ccs. Yes it's bad when three different characters can cc-lock one but if you don't think that can happen in this game you haven't played it much (not for 50 seconds but for long enough to win fights/objectives). And again, that Deep Freeze -> Sheep etc. combo doesn't work on some characters and others can break it and/or cleanse their teammates. Those CCs have numerous counters.

 

My Lightning Sorc in comparison has just a knockback+root, a stun, an interupt, a single target 2 second cast mezz and a 3 second mezz from shield. Thats not even close to what a frost mage can do and that's the best a Sorc can have in terms of CC.

At most I can CC you back to back 15 seconds with shield mezz, mezz and stun, and must use two 1 minute CD for that and my mezz is easily counterable if we are in a group PvP situation. And tbh I am not even sure that works because I can usually not use Whirlwind under most circumstances. Just far too long cast time.

My mage in comparison can alone lock you down for 22.5 seconds and only needs to use a 30 second CD and can do that over range, unlike me who needs to be in melee range for shield mezz. Prior to Pandaland you could even reset the the stun via Coldsnap for another series.

Really there is no comparison of CC, WoW blows SWTOR out of the water.

 

Still talking about single-target ccs and now 1v1s where SWTOR is not that bad. But when you have 4 lightning sorcs in proximity? That's 12 aoe root/knockbacks/interrupts per minute on almost every nearby enemy. That's 1 root/kb/interrupt for everyone every 5 secs... and setups like that happen all the time. And sorcs are not the worst ccers in SWTOR.

 

The worst class when it comes to CC in WoW is the shaman. Who is a healer/damage dealer in heavy armor and shield with good mobility and endless mana so there is a reason for that.

 

Refresh my memory - what ccs do shaman have? I know they have an aoe knockback w/snare - what was the cd on it again?

 

You think getting pulled into a group and getting killed in a few secodns doesn't happen in WoW? Ever played more than TBC? Ever heard of Deathknights?

 

I never said there were no pulls in Wow or that someone couldn't get pulled (into a pack to die - I used to love AV). But I'm glad you brought up DKs - most of their specs have what? 2 ccs available total (a single target snare and Deathgrip a single target pull on a 25 second cd). This class' cc would be a joke in SWTOR (a Vanguard would pull you, then stun you twice along with everyone around you and leave you snared if you weren't falling or in a death trap and then he'd either mez you or hit you with a grenade). There are also several ways to avoid/counter deathgrips (and snares) in Wow, last I checked, not so many here.

 

Yellow

Edited December 28, 2013 by Savej

[madtycoon]

Refresh my memory - what ccs do shaman have? I know they have an aoe knockback w/snare - what was the cd on it again?

 

Hex 45 seconds (35 w/glyph) better than any single target mez in swtor imo - easier to counter in wow

Wind sheer is about the same as a swtor interrupt

Incap Totem 45 second aoe stun - depending on talents can be prepped or thrown - easier to counter than any swtor stun

frost shock (slow) can be talented to root also - kiting capability with well designed pillars makes it stronger in wow

earth shock - kinda equivalent to taunt

earthbind totem - talented roots, non talented aoe slows

frostbrand weapon - enhancement's crippling poison

bind elemental - barely used

 

ele thunderstorm - 45 second cooldown (i think its 35 with glyph) stronger in wow because no resolve, maps are better designed - can be used while stunned and slows players

 

Shamans and Death Knights have the least amount of CC. Tank guardians, deception sins and marks snipers have the most CC in SWTOR, but they don't compare with rogues, warriors or hunters which are sorta similar classes to them.

 

WOW needs a lot of CC. CC chains is how you get kills and stop damage in WOW, because healing actually does significantly more than damage. SWTOR is designed around tank mechanics, so healing is barely stronger than incoming damage making CC not as important and not as frequently used compared to WOW.

 

Play a healer against any 1800+ hunter, mage, lock, rogue, monk, spriest, druid, etc. with teammates that don't either have the pressure advantage or know how to stop CC and you will be chained into the ground without being very good at predicting/outplaying CC, positioning and fake casting. Three things that matter very little in SWTOR PvP.

 

WOW's mechanics allow better players to outplay CC and better players to control games with CC. That is not a big part of the meta in SWTOR. One of the many reasons WOW high end has a lot higher skill ceiling than SWTOR ever will.

Edited December 29, 2013 by madtycoon

[HoboWithAStick]

12 seconds only? Lol there are far worse games out there in terms of CC. In fact SWTOR is one of the weaker games when it comes to CC.

 

Yeah the pvp in this game is amazing, that's why they lose over a million subs after game launch and why people mainly pve on pvp servers.

[Beeteel]

Yeah the pvp in this game is amazing, that's why they lose over a million subs after game launch and why people mainly pve on pvp servers.

 

Just dont bother. They just dont get that its not only about the number of CCs available

[Vales]

Just dont bother. They just dont get that its not only about the number of CCs available

 

And you don't get it that there is less CC and it is just as easy to counter. Heck interupts in this game are a joke, if I get a counter on my arcane school in WoW I better hope my 5 minute CD Iceblock is available, otherwise I am pretty much dead. It is even worse for healers who get locked out of all their healing spells when countered, unlike here where I can just switch to the next healing spell if it even has a cast time.

This game has basically no silence CC either so I never have to worry about a big headache like in WoW where silence effects are abundand enough that I have to worry about them big time.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Vales

[Vales]

Yeah the pvp in this game is amazing, that's why they lose over a million subs after game launch and why people mainly pve on pvp servers.

 

Another red herring. We are not discussing the quality of PvP, just if CC is out of control and I have already proven that compared to the momentary king WoW this game is a joke when it comes to CC and guys like you would cry in a corner.

 

Yellow

 

Wrong on almost all acounts. That you even claim that rogues have less CC than Sorcs show that you either have not played a roguee at all, or such a long time ago that you are totally out of date.

Rogues blow assasins out of the water easily. Heck, they have it even easier to close to the target in stealth if they wish it since Sprint lasts 8 seconds and could even break roots and slows prior to Pandaland with talents, something we lack sorely. I also forgot that they have Garrotte, a DoT and silence effect in one and the silence effect lasts 4 seconds.

I think they got a new talent "Burst of Speed" which is even CD free albeit costs a good chunk of energy but I haven't played Pandaland much outside of beta.

Let's get to the "single target CC" argument. Yes such long CC chains cannot happen in SWTOR because no DRs resist and resolve fills up regardless who uses the CC. The most you might get out is something along the line of 12-15 seconds and it does not matter at all how many are around since resolve does not give a damn about different types of CC. DRs can be overcome by a suficcient amount of classes with different non-overlapping DR spells and thus can chain CC massively longer. 50+ seconds > 12-15 seconds.

AoE CC is pretty limited to mostly knockbacks in this game, there are no hard AoE CC effects like Howl of Terror, Intimidating Shout or Shadowfury.

Lightning Sorcs in proximity? Get your Smashmonkeys out and train them to death. They are so fking squishy with terrible self healing that I laugh at anyone who has massive problems against Sorcs in arena. Heck Sorcs are bottom feeders in 4v4 arena.

 

WOW's mechanics allow better players to outplay CC and better players to control games with CC. That is not a big part of the meta in SWTOR. One of the many reasons WOW high end has a lot higher skill ceiling than SWTOR ever will.

 

That is in part because it is barely possible to outplay the tanking here. The tank and protection mechanics are too simplistic and one sided. Simply CCing the tank or healer won't work, you basically need knockbacks to seperate them. If this game would have no knockbacks you could forget about killing either the tank or the healer.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Vales

[LovarBoy]

So. If you are not accepting ANY arguments.

 

Go and compare the stuns in SW:TOR with the stuns available in WoW. I think we have more than double here than there. Isn't that enough to realize the "problem"?

[Vales]

So. If you are not accepting ANY arguments.

 

Go and compare the stuns in SW:TOR with the stuns available in WoW. I think we have more than double here than there. Isn't that enough to realize the "problem"?

 

SWTOR does not have double the amount of stuns. Not even close. And I already pointed out that not only has WoW more but also on shorter CC. Almost all hard CC in SWTOR has about 1 minute CD, in WoW it's ususally around 20-30 seconds, some even without any CD whatsoever.

Heck even the paladin stun lasts 6 seconds now with 30 seconds CD and that is one of the classes with the least amount of CCs.

Accepting arguments would mean you could convince me with an attempt of using hard facts, not mere blanket statements. All you do is bringing out baseless claims. I at least have tried to argument with hard facts and numbers.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Vales

[magi_melcior]

FFXIV just introduced PvP in their latest patch and if you think this game has it bad with CC try playing a match over there.

 

Right now it is simple, if a team has a Black Mage on it that team WILL win, why because of CC. A BMG can put the entire enemy team to sleep with one move, sleep is a 30 second CC and FFXIV has NO stun breaker at all.

 

So after the BMG has put the enemy to sleep, his team picks 1 enemy and takes them on 4v1, sure Sleep breaks on damage but in a 4v1 what chance does the 1 stand. Usually there is enough time for the BMG team to kill off 2 or 3 of the enemy team inside the 30 seconds.

 

So it is not so bad here, no CC lasts 30 seconds even the single target ones plus we have a stun breaker and resolve (however crap resolve is it is better than nothing at all)

[Beeteel]

And you don't get it that there is less CC and it is just as easy to counter. Heck interupts in this game are a joke, if I get a counter on my arcane school in WoW I better hope my 5 minute CD Iceblock is available, otherwise I am pretty much dead. It is even worse for healers who get locked out of all their healing spells when countered, unlike here where I can just switch to the next healing spell if it even has a cast time.

This game has basically no silence CC either so I never have to worry about a big headache like in WoW where silence effects are abundand enough that I have to worry about them big time.

 

Why do I even try. U didnt ever read what u just quoted. Did u just bring silenses into this without factoring in that SWTOR silences have a cooldown of 7-12 seconds? There is also DPS/healing ratio to take into account AND the amount of interrupts. Im happy u are not a dev. On second thought, maybe thats why were having this conversation?

Edited December 29, 2013 by Beeteel

[Beeteel]

FFXIV just introduced PvP in their latest patch and if you think this game has it bad with CC try playing a match over there.

 

Right now it is simple, if a team has a Black Mage on it that team WILL win, why because of CC. A BMG can put the entire enemy team to sleep with one move, sleep is a 30 second CC and FFXIV has NO stun breaker at all.

 

So after the BMG has put the enemy to sleep, his team picks 1 enemy and takes them on 4v1, sure Sleep breaks on damage but in a 4v1 what chance does the 1 stand. Usually there is enough time for the BMG team to kill off 2 or 3 of the enemy team inside the 30 seconds.

 

So it is not so bad here, no CC lasts 30 seconds even the single target ones plus we have a stun breaker and resolve (however crap resolve is it is better than nothing at all)

 

I have never played FF at all. It surely sounds aweful but FFXIVbeing bad doesent mean SWTOR is fine

[LovarBoy]

FFXIV is a bad game at all with a crappy engine - I wonder how they could come up with PvP whilst there is such horrible PvE "lag".

 

Why do I even try. U didnt ever read what u just quoted. Did u just bring silenses into this without factoring in that SWTOR silences have a cooldown of 7-12 seconds? There is also DPS/healing ratio to take into account AND the amount of interrupts. Im happy u are not a dev. On second thought, maybe thats why were having this conversation?

 

This.

Edited December 29, 2013 by LovarBoy

[Vales]

Why do I even try. U didnt ever read what u just quoted. Did u just bring silenses into this without factoring in that SWTOR silences have a cooldown of 7-12 seconds? There is also DPS/healing ratio to take into account AND the amount of interrupts. Im happy u are not a dev. On second thought, maybe thats why were having this conversation?

 

Silence? In SWTOR? Rofl. Stop confusing it with interupts. This game has no silence effects. And yes I wonder why you try since I already debunked your "arguments" once.

Come back when you got a clue about game mechanics. Interupts in this game are at worst a mild annoyance.

 

This.

 

Oh the irony of you two dismissing me like this. It's not like you two acknowledge any of my points which I was able to at least provide hard facts for. Where are yours? Wait, whining about resolve is not an argument.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Vales

[Beeteel]

Silence? In SWTOR? Rofl. Stop confusing it with interupts. This game has no silence effects. And yes I wonder why you try since I already debunked your "arguments" once.

Come back when you got a clue about game mechanics. Interupts in this game are at worst a mild annoyance

 

No there are no full silences but there are lockouts baked into interrupts ever 7-12 seconds for every AC. If one of your heals, with a cast time in swtor, is lock out u are at a massive disadvantage. Its not like u can choose from 10 other healing spells.

 

Also the interrupts. Assassins: Jolt (10sec CD) Low slash (15sec CD)/force pull (45sec), Overload (20 sec CD), Electrocute (1min), Spike (30sec from stealth).

 

Thats 8 interrupts in 30 sec and 7 interrupts in 30 sec if in Tank spec. 3 of those are attached to lockout... They also dont need any prepping or casting apart from Spike needing stealth.

 

A healer is locked out of healing alot more than WoW and thats in a game where its more devestating if that happens. WoW also have TON of selfheals thats way more potent than in SWTOR

 

This is also OT

Edited December 29, 2013 by Beeteel

[Vales]

No there are no full silences but there are lockouts baked into interrupts ever 7-12 seconds for every AC. If one of your heals, with a cast time in swtor, is lock out u are at a massive disadvantage. Its not like u can choose from 10 other healing spells.

 

Also the interrupts. Assassins: Jolt (10sec CD) Low slash (15sec CD)/force pull (45sec), Overload (20 sec CD), Electrocute (1min), Spike (30sec from stealth).

 

Thats 8 interrupts in 30 sec and 7 interrupts in 30 sec if in Tank spec. 3 of those are attached to lockout... They also dont need any prepping or casting apart from Spike needing stealth.

 

A healer is locked out of healing alot more than WoW and thats in a game where its more devestating if that happens. WoW also have TON of selfheals thats way more potent than in SWTOR

 

This is also OT

 

/facepalm

I already adressed this and tried several times to explain to you that interupts are a friggin JOKE here. Why? Because in WoW it means not only can you not cast the spell countered but an entire "school" of spells. For healers that often means they are compeltey locked out of healing spells. All of them no exceptions. Where the hell do you get the idea that the interupts here are so powerful? They are not, they are weak.

Do you really not understand just how much of a joke interupts are here? That is also why they have a short CD because their effect is at best annoying, rarely gamebreaking. In WoW fake casting is such an elementary skill to force people into wasting their interupt because if not they are fking dead or run a high risk that they will die and I am talking about one interupt only, not a big chain of them. They also do not obey they DR rule so with enough classes you can get locked out. On the other hand WoW has tons more instant casts so there is that.

And now on top of those massively more powerful interupts come silences which are a form of soft CC which do not require any timing, you just cannot use anything bar auto attacks for up to 5 seconds depending on the specific silence.

Seriously, get a clue, I played WoW arena up to 2k rating (TBC, where it meant something) in my best days you are really in no position to lecutre me on WoW arena. Just stop it, you are just embarassing yourself. That you do not even know the difference between interupt and silence is so damn telling.

Your list for assasin "interupts" is meaningless because not all of these spells are interupts. Do you really not know what an interupt is?

You think Assasins are bad? Ever played against a rogue? Ok I'll give you a basic rundown what a rogue can do to interupt you:

Sap -> CS/arotte -> KS -> Gouge -> Kick -> Blind -> Restealth -> Sap -> Garotte/CS -> KS -> Gouge -> Kick

With Preparation he can do this twice. With Vanish he can mix it up with another Sap/CS/Garotte herever he feels like its needed.

Seriously, assasins CC and interupts are a joke in comparison and I did not even bring up Sokebomb plus against melee he gets Disarm which massively reduces your damage plus he can opt for a 70% slow poison which either proccs on auto attacks or using Shiv.

I also forget Cloak of Shadows which makes them immune to almost all CC for 5 seconds and immune to magical damage.

Did I mention that unlike assasins they also got Shadowstep, a basic teleport towards an enemy on top of they 8 second Sprint (= Force Speed)?

Edited December 29, 2013 by Vales

[Savej]

/facepalm

I already adressed this and tried several times to explain to you that interupts are a friggin JOKE here...

 

The thing about here is that there are so many. Combined with all of the aoe cc's happening, good luck casting any spell with a cd if you're near melee range with 2 or more enemies.

 

Again - rogues have very little if any aoe cc. They aren't pulling people into firetraps or cliff ledges or kbing/interrupting teams off bridges/catwalks (every 20 seconds). And sure, while a deception sin isn't going to keep one opponent locked up as long as a rogue focusing solely on cc might he can still lock down most classes (without sacrificing dps) long enough to kill them (why they win most dueling tournaments).

Edited December 29, 2013 by Savej

[Beeteel]

I just erased my whole answer so Ill be short

 

/facepalm

I already adressed this and tried several times to explain to you that interupts are a friggin JOKE here. Why? Because in WoW it means not only can you not cast the spell countered but an entire "school" of spells. For healers that often means they are compeltey locked out of healing spells. All of them no exceptions. Where the hell do you get the idea that the interupts here are so powerful? They are not, they are weak. Do you really not understand just how much of a joke interupts are here? That is also why they have a short CD because their effect is at best annoying, rarely gamebreaking.

 

Use your interrupts properly and they are way more powerful

 

In WoW fake casting is such an elementary skill to force people into wasting their interupt because if not they are fking dead or run a high risk that they will die and I am talking about one interupt only, not a big chain of them. They also do not obey they DR rule so with enough classes you can get locked out.

 

Fakecasting is a great skill to have because when u are successful u dont have to worry about it for a good while. Its the ONE u have to worry about.If u start fakecasting when under preassure u have already screwed up.

 

And now on top of those massively more powerful interupts come silences which are a form of soft CC which do not require any timing, you just cannot use anything bar auto attacks for up to 5 seconds depending on the specific silence.

 

An interrupt is an interrupt. What massively more powerful interrupts are u talking about? U are blowing silence way out of proportion. They are powerful but they have to use that good ol timing of yours. Also if u are doing it correctly u will interrupt at the end of the cast. Thats what we need in Swtor. A feeling that I have wasted something good if I dont do it properly.

 

Seriously, get a clue, I played WoW arena up to 2k rating (TBC, where it meant something) in my best days you are really in no position to lecutre me on WoW arena. Just stop it, you are just embarassing yourself. That you do not even know the difference between interupt and silence is so damn telling.

 

U will have to look forever to find anyone who cares about your rating. U dont know in what position I am and u dont know who I am. It doesent matter. Ppl are to smart to fall for your slander. Where did I even hint that I dont know the difference between interrupt and silence?

 

Your list for assasin "interupts" is meaningless because not all of these spells are interupts. Do you really not know what an interupt is?

You think Assasins are bad? Ever played against a rogue? Ok I'll give you a basic rundown what a rogue can do to interupt you:

Sap -> CS/arotte -> KS -> Gouge -> Kick -> Blind -> Restealth -> Sap -> Garotte/CS -> KS -> Gouge -> Kick

With Preparation he can do this twice. With Vanish he can mix it up with another Sap/CS/Garotte herever he feels like its needed.

Seriously, assasins CC and interupts are a joke in comparison and I did not even bring up Sokebomb plus against melee he gets Disarm which massively reduces your damage plus he can opt for a 70% slow poison which either proccs on auto attacks or using Shiv.

I also forget Cloak of Shadows which makes them immune to almost all CC for 5 seconds and immune to magical damage.

Did I mention that unlike assasins they also got Shadowstep, a basic teleport towards an enemy on top of they 8 second Sprint (= Force Speed)?

 

What are we talking about here? U are all over the place. Why are u bringing up Sap, disarm, teleports, CoS and slows?

 

Your whole combo just screams "I need a setup to pull this off". U are practically making my point so Ill just adress your interrupts/silences. Im leaving Sap out of it because I dont really know why its there.

 

Carrote/CS--> from stealth but ok.

 

KS--> 20sec CD and requires setup and combopoints (cant compare CP with energy or force). So thats the interrupts in excpense of something else.

 

Gouge--> 10sec CD

 

Blind--> 2 min CD

 

Kick--> 15 sec CD

 

So yes for the first 30 sec they are almost on par with assassins BUT the assassin can just keep it up. The Rogue cannot because of CDs or they actually want to put out some damage for the CP. Assassins generally have better range. Also while the rogue have a slower recharge rate they also have heavy energy costs and combo point costs attached to these abilities, while they are fairly cheap or free, for Assassin. This is quite typical for the ACs in swtor but the Rogue is just outstanding in wow and does not really serve as a good example.

 

One more thing about this is the amount of knockbacks and pulls. The assassin can physically remove a healer from the fight quite easily

Edited December 29, 2013 by Beeteel

[Vales]

1.) What the heck, what does that change the fact that interupts only interupt 1! ability, not a whole school. My god what else must I tell you until you get it through your thick skull that interupting dozens of abilites with one interupt is much stronger than an interupt which affects one ability only.

 

2.) Silence must not be times at all. Unlike an interupt you just have to use for it to reduce any caster to a pitiful victim who cannot do more than auto attacking. Silence are much more powerful than interupts, in fact I fear silence more than interupts.

 

3.) I do not need a lecture from you about fake casting, I already did this in classic WoW back in 2004 so spare me your wannabe pro attitude, it does not impress me.

 

4.) People are "smart"? Says who? You? Laughable. Yes I know nothing about you but that you complain that this game has supposedly "much CC" is already quite telling. Considering that this thread has barely any attendance also shows that you guys are a pitiful minority.

 

6.) Man, you really have never played rogue, haven't you? This can be easily done by any rogue who is not half brain dead. CPs are not hard to manage, in fact they basically come automatically if you are not fully retarded.

So what if he uses these CDs, its not like Electrolute is on a much shorter CD at 1 minute plus the assasin cannot reset it unlike the rogue.

There have been plenty of showcases in classic in which you could see how any less than terrible rogue could lock basically any caster class bar mages lie that routinely and can do so up to nearly 1 minute if he wishes to do so, now show me an assasin who can do that locking down a healer for 1 minute all on his own. Never mention the fact that you are basically permanently slowed at 70% thanks to crippling poison.

I am waiting.

 

7.) And? What about the knockback? You do realize that we are now in group territory and we can argue basuically hundreds of situations and constellations and we will go nowhere by making such silly blanket statements ala "due to knockback class x can take that class out".

My answer, no you cannot, at least not against non stupid players.

 

The thing about here is that there are so many. Combined with all of the aoe cc's happening, good luck casting any spell with a cd if you're near melee range with 2 or more enemies.

 

Again - rogues have very little if any aoe cc. They aren't pulling people into firetraps or cliff ledges or kbing/interrupting teams off bridges/catwalks (every 20 seconds). And sure, while a deception sin isn't going to keep one opponent locked up as long as a rogue focusing solely on cc might he can still lock down most classes (without sacrificing dps) long enough to kill them (why they win most dueling tournaments).

 

The thing about WoW is it has more and usually on shorter CDs albeit it also has more counters.

What is your problem with AoE CC? There is no AoE stun and just 2-3 AoE mezzes in the game which break on nearly any damage and most AoE CC is also melee range only.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Vales

[Beeteel]

1.) What the heck, what does that change the fact that interupts only interupt 1! ability, not a whole school. My god what else must I tell you until you get it through your thick skull that interupting dozens of abilites with one interupt is much stronger than an interupt which affects one ability only.

 

u need to see the big picture. Ive been telling u from my first post that u cant compare WoW CC with SWTOR CC and just forget everything else. Do I really need to tell u that everyone, even the ones that argue against u, understands the silence>interrupt relationship perfectly. Swtor casters dont have the kiting/survivablility mechanics that WoW casters have. There are ALOT more to bring into this relationship (and I have provided many but u just dont read). U dont need to silence anyone in Swtor, interrupts are spammable for almost every AC.

 

2.) Silence must not be times at all. Unlike an interupt you just have to use for it to reduce any caster to a pitiful victim who cannot do more than auto attacking.

 

In wow u must time your silence according to pressure. U, the 1337 of 1337s surely know all about it. While I agree, u dont have to time your silence anywhere on the cast spectrum. I used to try perfecting that so that I used my interrupt at the end my targets castcykle. Here I dont need to bother even though I do it out of old habit.

 

Silence are much more powerful than interupts, in fact I fear silence more than interupts.

 

Are u trying to tell me that a complete casting lockout is more powerful than a mere interrupt? Nooooo

 

3.) I do not need a lecture from you about fake casting, I already did this in classic WoW back in 2004 so spare me your wannabe pro attitude, it does not impress me.

 

Im not trying to impress u nor am I trying to lecture u. Ive been telling u from post 1 that this is no contest. U on the other hand are constantly telling me all about your oh so respectable exploits.

 

4.) People are "smart"? Says who? You? Laughable. Yes I know nothing about you but that you complain that this game has supposedly "much CC" is already quite telling. Considering that this thread has barely any attendance also shows that you guys are a pitiful minority.

 

Flawless resoning. Once again

 

6.) Man, you really have never played rogue, haven't you? This can be easily done by any rogue who is not half brain dead. CPs are not hard to manage, in fact they basically come automatically if you are not fully retarded.

So what if he uses these CDs, its not like Electrolute is on a much shorter CD at 1 minute plus the assasin cannot reset it unlike the rogue.

 

Isolated case, what about all the others?

CP are still valuable. Most Assa interrupts or interrupts/lockouts are free and need no resource. In fact u can do this with most ACs in Swtor.

 

There have been plenty of showcases in classic in which you could see how any less than terrible rogue could lock basically any caster class bar mages lie that routinely and can do so up to nearly 1 minute if he wishes to do so, now show me an assasin who can do that locking down a healer for 1 minute all on his own. Never mention the fact that you are basically permanently slowed at 70% thanks to crippling poison.

I am waiting.

 

U are constantly missing the point. First, in swtor, u dont need to lock anyone out for a min due to DPS/HP ratio and other crap that I have no desire to list for u again... Second, no u cant lock anyone out for 1 min with a rogue including non afking bad pvpers.

 

7.) And? What about the knockback? You do realize that we are now in group territory and we can argue basuically hundreds of situations and constellations and we will go nowhere by making such silly blanket statements ala "due to knockback class x can take that class out".

My answer, no you cannot, at least not against non stupid players.

 

Blanket statement? U are the one that suggested that teleports, slows, sap dismantle and whatnot, should have a place in interrupt/silence diskussion. Knockbacks and Pulls are CONSTANTLY being used to shut down healers and other casters aswell. AND on good players

Edited December 29, 2013 by Beeteel

[DarthVengeant]

*Sigh*

 

You do know that once your Resolve is full you get 12 seconds of CC immunity?

 

And that there are abilities such as Hydraulic Override which make you immune for 8 seconds?

 

Use them back to back and get 20 seconds of immunity.

 

So, explain people who ALWAYS have full resolve and can never be stunned the entire game?

 

And don't act like I am seeing things or don't know what I am talking about, when me and my guild mates PVP we see this garbage all the time. Unstoppable people. My force choke not working on ANYONE the entire game.

 

In fact, for example, there was a Command last week who had 6 people on him and he never once stopped or health dropped much the ENTIRE game. Not 1 stun worked, EVER. He never died, with 6 people on him. Explain that too me?

 

Alot of you seem afraid to admit that too much exploits and cheating is going on in PVP. Like the people who look like their toon is on crack going back and forth quickly constantly never being able to be stunned or slowed, or the ones who keep disappearing over and over and reappearing, repeat, repeat.

Edited January 2, 2014 by DarthVengeant

[Savej]

... What is your problem with AoE CC? There is no AoE stun and just 2-3 AoE mezzes in the game which break on nearly any damage and most AoE CC is also melee range only.

 

AOE stuns:

Grenades = non-melee aoe stun which everyone can get.

Vanguards get neural surge - large aoe radius. It only lasts 2.5 secs but it is also on a shorter CD than most stuns (45 secs).

 

AOE mezzes:

There's the aoe mez that knights/warriors get. That's pbaoe.

There's the aoe mez that scoundrels/ops get. That's ranged aoe (and lasts longest).

There's grenades which anyone can get.

There's sage/sorc bubble pops for those that spec into it.

There's at least one that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head.

 

I know that's a relatively short list of distinct ability names but consider that the first two covers half the classes in the game and around half the players in the game. And grenades cover everyone.

 

There are also several aoe snares and some aoe roots.

 

AOE is a significant argument point because AOE effectively multiplies the number of CCs going off: instead of 1 kb going off, 1 caster can effectively cast up to 5 kbs in one cast. 5 people doing 2-3 aoe kbs per minute in a melee area is a lot of interrupts/kbs firing off. Because there are so many aoe ccs going off, the number of ccs that a player can be hit by gets very high - much higher than typically happens in Wow (even though warlocks, frost mages and shamans can do some aoe cc, and even warriors have a fear every 90 secs, an aoe snare if they spec into it and a few other tricks if they spec into them, swtor has far more on shorter cooldowns, and much of it - the roots, snares, kbs, interrupts, etc - does not affect resolve).