Undying Changes

[Raansu]

Rofl trust me, by the time I'm forced to use my shroud defensively I have already been holding back my offensive capability for quite a while.

 

You have absolutely nothing to worry about untill you're forced to use gbtf. It's is FAR more powerful.

 

If we gave you shroud you wouldn't cry rivers anymore, we would be talking oceans.

 

You don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

 

I have a 55 of every AC I know exactly what I am talking about.

[Zunayson]

UR is balanced when used simply as an extension of life. Without healers, it is fine. It provides an immunity to damage, so why not an immunity to healing? <--- seemed pretty logical to me.

 

At 45 seconds, an entire extra life is redicoulously overpowered.

 

Vanishes for non concealment/decep stealthies took away healing, but camo doesn't? (Now vanishes no longer remove healing as of 2.2 or something?)

 

The change they made was more elegant than what I would have done.

 

Stop whining and l2adapt.

[CellPerfect]

At 45 seconds, an entire extra life is redicoulously overpowered.

 

I agree. That was over powered. But again as it has been said, That was only for the Rage tree (which is smash spec) The other trees had it on a 1 minute and 15 seconds cool down, which was still semi quick considering what the ability could do but it wasn't as overpowered as everyone believe. Everyone acts like all marauders and sentinels had it the way rage did and that is not true. If they would have removed the over powered buffs that the rage tree gave it, and took away the set bonus for it, the ability would have been fine.

[Sappharan]

For those that complain about the nerf to undying rage and protected by the force it was needed plain and simple. And those complain that the nerf also nerfed the lesser used specs it really didnt. I dont play the cent or mara but I duo with one prity much on a nightly basis. Anyhoo she is in the dot spec tree and she doesnt rely on that defence alot. Its quite simple pick your battles. Well thats my 2 cents

 

The only thing needed was a little tactical awareness and skill. Shame you had neither.

[Sappharan]

UR is balanced when used simply as an extension of life. Without healers, it is fine. It provides an immunity to damage, so why not an immunity to healing? <--- seemed pretty logical to me.

 

At 45 seconds, an entire extra life is redicoulously overpowered.

 

Vanishes for non concealment/decep stealthies took away healing, but camo doesn't? (Now vanishes no longer remove healing as of 2.2 or something?)

 

The change they made was more elegant than what I would have done.

 

Stop whining and l2adapt.

 

So we're being punished for a synergy that is not our fault? How about nerf healers? Too much critical thinking for you?

 

Why didn't *YOU* learn to adapt? Oh--right. You couldn't.

[Pwnboy]

So we're being punished for a synergy that is not our fault? How about nerf healers? Too much critical thinking for you?

 

Why didn't *YOU* learn to adapt? Oh--right. You couldn't.

 

It's somewhat difficult to adapt to a marauder that's nigh invincible and getting hp back to continue the fight after the timer expires.

[Abbyssion]

So we're being punished for a synergy that is not our fault? How about nerf healers? Too much critical thinking for you?

 

Why didn't *YOU* learn to adapt? Oh--right. You couldn't.

 

Damn your right everything in pvp is a adapt problem.

 

You a mando healer getting interrupted and can't do ****? adapt dammit!

You a Sorc and having trouble staying alive in arena's? adapt dammit! (how about trying to heal to full?)

You a concealment Op?...nuff said. adapt dammit!

 

Man the world is a great place when we can all just adapt.

[HolyFrogx]

I feel sad for the change. I had my GBTF- Heal Pot rotation down pat, but now I'm a scardey tard.

The change is making the smash sentinels more cautious, as they adapt.

 

I'm adapting by watching the hell out of my buffs, waiting for GBTF to finish and hitting that health pot asit ends. has saved me a couple times, but the number of times I've burned that health pot too soon in RWZ is painful.

 

p.s. Watchman is still no good for RWZ.

[NvrShoutNvr]

Let's think about in what you're saying here...

What's the marauder class objectives? They are the first line of offensive atacks. Tanks are in the back protecting healers, while the marauder have to jump in the middle of 5~6 people.

What it means? A lot of damage taken. A lot of stuns and double stun all the time, so this class spend not exaggerating 40% of the match stunned. They can't activate a defensive cooldown while stunned. So when they don't die after 8secs stunned, they have 5% HP left, pop Undying Rage and do as much damage as you can in this short time before you die.

Cammo + undying rage is the key for survivability through so many stuns. Remember, this class do not have a 4sec stun, the trade off is a huge burst aoe critical + defensive cooldowns, this is what people do not understand.

Now tells me, which other dps class spend 40% of the match stunned? Smash Juggernauts, but they have crap survivability that needs to be buffed. Stealthers choose their fights, if they are being stunned over and over they are playing the class wrong.

You say "welcome to the mortals world"... Ok, I won't jump there to press the enemy healer, I'll let him LOS your ranged atacks and heal everybody to full. I know I'll die in the first 6 seconds without cammo or undying rage, so I won't jump there. I'll let you "mortal" ranged deal with all the enemy ranged being healed free cast by their healer.

I think you play a sorcerer or a mercenary, pretty sure. Can you deal with the enemy healer + ranged classes all together? Go ahead, have fun going after the enemy healer.

 

Imagine a tank spending 50% of the health 15~20k HP to survive 5 seconds... Look how bad your is your argument.

You take way more than 5 seconds to take out 15k from a good tank.

 

Why you don't understand all of this? Because you do not play one.

Most damage taken in warzones, healers and marauders. Not even tanks, only if he is guarding that focused healer.

So if you're the most damage taken class, what do you need? Defenses.

What's the trade off of huge burst aoe critical? no 4sec stun and just a few seconds to do damage through so many stuns.

TL;DR: all marauders should play like mortal classes, so they won't jump in the middle of 6 people to press the enemy healer, they should let you ranged mortals be LOS'ed and see all the enemy be healed to full by that healer that you can't reach.

 

Using your logic, this would imply that Marauders are the only Melee DPS class in the game. Are they? No. Were they the only ones used in most competitive ranked matches? Yes. Why? Ridiculous DCD's and a free life every 45 seconds. The nerf was entirely warranted, and they are far from garbage. They're just on an even playing field now. Are they still the best Melee class in the game? In my opinion yes. But they're a hell of a lot easier to kill now. Jugg, Sin, Powertech (before 2.4) Concealment Op.. those all "have to jump into 5 or 6 enemies" just like the marauder does, they fill the same roll. But only a small percentage of ranked teams took those classes because they couldn't be carried by their ridiculous defensives. And now that their god status has been revoked, the only Marauders who are complaining about the UR changes are the ones who needed to be carried by their classes defensives. And you're right, I don't play a Marauder. Marauders are just Juggernauts who need an extra lightsaber to keep up with our mad mad Vengeance deeps inb4 opfotm

 

Having trouble surviving as a Marauder now? Good. Welcome to the jungle.

Edited December 5, 2013 by NvrShoutNvr

[Niko_Storm]

Because undying is sorta ****ed up maras should get insane buff to dps then. To wait like 1"45 minutes if i am not rage specced just kiled this class. Carnage needs to get Unstoppable skill from juggernauts. or alacrity boost up to 100%. Anni have been doing better right now .

Smash monkeys are still very huge *** dps which is good but they suck on 1 vs 1 situations. I am playing as full carnage or hybrid mara and I take out Rage specced maras like toys.

[PoliteAssasin]

Using your logic, this would imply that Marauders are the only Melee DPS class in the game. Are they? No. Were they the only ones used in most competitive ranked matches? Yes. Why? Ridiculous DCD's and a free life every 45 seconds. The nerf was entirely warranted, and they are far from garbage. They're just on an even playing field now. Are they still the best Melee class in the game? In my opinion yes. But they're a hell of a lot easier to kill now. Jugg, Sin, Powertech (before 2.4) Concealment Op.. those all "have to jump into 5 or 6 enemies" just like the marauder does, they fill the same roll. But no one took those classes because they couldn't be carried by their ridiculous defensives.

 

Having trouble surviving as a Marauder now? Good. Welcome to jungle.

 

Again, you seem to be having difficulty grasping the fact that it doesn't affect the class survivability, it affects a certain scenario in a warzone, (Mara with a pocket healer) which was scarce enough to begin with. Bioware didn't nerf the cooldown, all they did was make it where in scenarios regarding healers marauders don't have a slight advantage when using UR, uninterrupted healing. Now instead of healing druring UR and GBTF, which have pretty notable visual representations for pugs AND can be communicated to healers in organized play, the marauder will pop their 4 second camo right as the immunity ends, and shoot back up. Back to square one. The only marauders who are whining about this "nerf" are bads, anyone who has a moderate understanding of the class will realize this changes nothing. I have to commend bioware for actually managing to get people to believe this is a nerf. It's amusing to see the other classes rejoice as if this is a victory. It'll sink in pretty soon no doubt. Until then, keep it coming.

 

Because undying is sorta ****ed up maras should get insane buff to dps then. To wait like 1"45 minutes if i am not rage specced just kiled this class. Carnage needs to get Unstoppable skill from juggernauts. or alacrity boost up to 100%. Anni have been doing better right now .

Smash monkeys are still very huge *** dps which is good but they suck on 1 vs 1 situations. I am playing as full carnage or hybrid mara and I take out Rage specced maras like toys.

 

That was the original cooldown before the new set bonus, we survived before it, we'll survive again.

Edited December 5, 2013 by PoliteAssasin

[NvrShoutNvr]

Again, you seem to be having difficulty grasping the fact that it doesn't affect the class survivability, it affects a certain scenario in a warzone, (Mara with a pocket healer) which was scarce enough to begin with. Bioware didn't nerf the cooldown, all they did was make it where in scenarios regarding healers marauders don't have a slight advantage when using UR, uninterrupted healing. Now instead of healing druring UR and GBTF, which have pretty notable visual representations for pugs AND can be communicated to healers in organized play, the marauder will pop their 4 second camo right as the immunity ends, and shoot back up. Back to square one. The only marauders who are whining about this "nerf" are bads, anyone who has a moderate understanding of the class will realize this changes nothing. I have to commend bioware for actually managing to get people to believe this is a nerf. It's amusing to see the other classes rejoice as if this is a victory. It'll sink in pretty soon no doubt. Until then, keep it coming.

 

oh Neo how i've missed you. <3

[PoliteAssasin]

oh Neo how i've missed you. <3

 

I know, but it can never be. You're on badstion, I'm on potpie. </3

[NvrShoutNvr]

I know, but it can never be. You're on badstion, I'm on potpie. </3

 

My ping on pot5 is about 1/4 of what it is on the badstion, maybe i should roll a toon over there so you can melt my face with anni again

[PoliteAssasin]

My ping on pot5 is about 1/4 of what it is on the badstion, maybe i should roll a toon over there so you can melt my face with anni again

 

I only have 5 days left and not going to resub so I'd hate to have you waste your time. Game just isn't the same anymore, due to the people mostly but lazy devs play their part too. I'll be honest I do miss the good ole days. Suppose all thats left is to relive them in my head movies.

Edited December 5, 2013 by PoliteAssasin

[NvrShoutNvr]

I only have 5 days left and not going to resub so I'd hate to have you waste your time. Game just isn't the same anymore, due to the people mostly but lazy devs play their part too. I'll be honest I do miss the good ole days. Suppose all thats left is to relive them in my head movies.

 

mine runs out on the 14th and i doubt im coming back, barring a massive PvP overhaul. Since I'll probably never talk to you again, thank you for the hours of entertainment in the forms of derailed BC threads and ZuZu trolling. Stay golden, ponyboy. I'll miss you.

[PoliteAssasin]

mine runs out on the 14th and i doubt im coming back, barring a massive PvP overhaul. Since I'll probably never talk to you again, thank you for the hours of entertainment in the forms of derailed BC threads and ZuZu trolling. Stay golden, ponyboy. I'll miss you.

 

Same man. Good times while it lasted.

[Nekrall]

Wow this thread blew up lmao.

 

I'll throw my opinion into the mix. Undying needed a nerf, especially in the smash tree. I agree entirely with making it cost 50% of your hp, and lengthening the cooldown. I started this thread simply to see how mara players had been dealing with the changes.

 

I've dealt with the change, and am no longer struggling with it, but the way bioware approached it seems very strange.

 

As I said, it needed a nerf, but the way the nerf was handled makes the ability very counter-intuitive. What undying used to do was give you some breathing room in a bad situation; now, it gives you five seconds of breathing room but then puts you in an even worse situation for that split second it runs out. You are going to need to save force camo for this moment in competitive arenas, believe me.

 

I would of liked to have seen a harder nerf to undying instead of this change. I think it would have been better for them to have made the cooldown 3 minutes, removed the reduced CD from rage, and bring you down to even 1 hp when you use it.

 

That change would have brought it more in line with the second life abilities most competitive classes are running with, focus on competitive classes. Sorcs have barrier, PTs have kolto, sins and operatives have combat stealth. All these abilities effectively save you from your death and make you vulnerable when on cooldown. The problem with marauders is that we had enough defensives aside from this to ensure that we survived for that short 45 seconds before another second life kicked in.

 

tldr; The problem was the low cooldown and the change is idiotic. They should have just lengthened the cooldown to 3 minutes to bring it in line with other classes' last ditch defensives.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Nekrall

[Technohic]

Again, you seem to be having difficulty grasping the fact that it doesn't affect the class survivability, it affects a certain scenario in a warzone, (Mara with a pocket healer) which was scarce enough to begin with. Bioware didn't nerf the cooldown, all they did was make it where in scenarios regarding healers marauders don't have a slight advantage when using UR, uninterrupted healing. Now instead of healing druring UR and GBTF, which have pretty notable visual representations for pugs AND can be communicated to healers in organized play, the marauder will pop their 4 second camo right as the immunity ends, and shoot back up. Back to square one. The only marauders who are whining about this "nerf" are bads, anyone who has a moderate understanding of the class will realize this changes nothing. I have to commend bioware for actually managing to get people to believe this is a nerf. It's amusing to see the other classes rejoice as if this is a victory. It'll sink in pretty soon no doubt. Until then, keep it coming.

 

 

 

That was the original cooldown before the new set bonus, we survived before it, we'll survive again.

 

 

Woah. Did you just bring rational thought to this thread? *** man?

[PoliteAssasin]

Woah. Did you just bring rational thought to this thread? *** man?

 

I dare say I did. But it'll all be drowned out by the bads who are whining about something they don't even understand.

[Evolixe]

Again, you seem to be having difficulty grasping the fact that it doesn't affect the class survivability, it affects a certain scenario in a warzone, (Mara with a pocket healer) which was scarce enough to begin with. Bioware didn't nerf the cooldown, all they did was make it where in scenarios regarding healers marauders don't have a slight advantage when using UR, uninterrupted healing. Now instead of healing druring UR and GBTF, which have pretty notable visual representations for pugs AND can be communicated to healers in organized play, the marauder will pop their 4 second camo right as the immunity ends, and shoot back up. Back to square one. The only marauders who are whining about this "nerf" are bads, anyone who has a moderate understanding of the class will realize this changes nothing. I have to commend bioware for actually managing to get people to believe this is a nerf. It's amusing to see the other classes rejoice as if this is a victory. It'll sink in pretty soon no doubt. Until then, keep it coming.

 

 

 

That was the original cooldown before the new set bonus, we survived before it, we'll survive again.

 

Before, you didn't have to combine the use of both camo and UR at all.

 

The fact that you now have only 1 effective reset rather than 2 makes this a nerf no matter how you look at it.

 

Changes nothing? You severely underestimate the gravity of this change.

[PoliteAssasin]

Before, you didn't have to combine the use of both camo and UR at all.

 

The fact that you now have only 1 effective reset rather than 2 makes this a nerf no matter how you look at it.

 

Changes nothing? You severely underestimate the gravity of this change.

 

Oh, don't tell me that an ability on a 45 second cooldown just received another instance for optimal use. The only other time you should be using camo is to gain distance on a sniper, or to interrupt a cast if you're out of stuns, or your opponent is immune to CC. (such as a veng jugg lolravaging you with unstoppable). But given that these instances are very scarce (You'd be hard pressed to find a veng jug with all the smashers, and you shouldn't be 1v1ing snipers in warzones trying to be a hero anyways) you now have a purpose for that shiny yellow button. Just want to reiterate that this is coming from someone who's played the class since launch, so I'm not some nerf marauders guy. Even though this isn't really a nerf. Keep the tears coming though, this is how you can differentiate between the bad and knowledgeable players.

[Raansu]

Polite, weren't you the one who was insistent on saying annihilation was good in pvp...? So you're perfectly fine with this nerf yet you advocate a nerf in which is completely counter productive in its design to how annihilation works lol. Pretty sure anything you say should be taken with a grain of salt. Edited December 5, 2013 by Raansu

[Mikeieveli]

My issue with the strategy of using GBTF then popping camo after it ends is that it effectively takes away 2 DCDS and amalgamates them into 1 long gcd. There has to be a better way than that to incorporate GBTF.

[cycao]

Oh man...