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What happened to all that class balance?


HoboWithAStick

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ROTHC came out 7 months ago and class balance has been total junk ever since, 2.5 is about to come out and class balance is still going to be junk. Why is bioware still not doing a major class patch? Their last excuse was they wanted to wait for more data from arenas till they did any balance. Well arenas are out now and the data is there and is exactly the same is what the community told you it would be. Waiting for pvp data is just silly anyways being that a lot of classes are under performing in pve as well.

 

What makes me even more upset is they make posts in all the advanced class forum what changes we'd like to see and suggestions and from that they took absolutely no feedback from that and no changes came about from that. I understand they can't get around to everything and can't make everyone happy but totally ignoring it all together after asking us is just insulting and a total waste of time to those that put time into making posts

 

Its pretty sad that 3 advanced classes are making up over 60% of the pvp leaderboards and nothing is being done about that.

 

I'd really like to know why class balance for bioware Austin is so hard, every other game I play I see class balance on a very regular cycle. Swtor has had only a handful of big class balance updates since launch and one them cost money.

Edited by HoboWithAStick
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The pve balance is even bad though, you want to bring Sin dps into a raid? Its passable if they are an exceptional player but why would you when the same player on a marauder can pull 30% more?

 

Because Sins have utility that Mara's do not?

 

In NiM this may be a different discussion, but for HM... yeah I'll take that utility if they're putting out top flight DPS (3k+).

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I'd really like to know why class balance for bioware Austin is so hard, every other game I play I see class balance on a very regular cycle. Swtor has had only a handful of big class balance updates since launch and one them cost money.

 

Can you name a couple of MMORPGs that do? Blizzard has been trying to balance classes in WoW for about 10 years. Im sure they would be interested. PvP Class balance in a PvE centric game isnt near as easy as you have been led to believe.

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Not keeping up with what has been happening in WOW as much as I could, but last thing I remember isn't them taking forever to at least try to fix things.

 

Balance patches in this game are rare and frustratingly small. I mean, look at what they gave us so far for 2.5.

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what do you expect? PVP is pretty much just a clumsy add onto a PVE game

 

This is why I pretty much disdain PvP in games like these. They spend so much time "balancing" that they invariably screw up the PvE side, then instead of walking changes back they turn the dial way up or down on the other end to balance. Which invariably screws up the PvP side so they then complain about it. The. It sits there for 6 months while they decide what to do about it, and then..........

 

 

The damn cycle never ends and EVERYONE just ends up pissed off. Either make these games 100% PvP, 100% PvE, or have 2 completely separate rule sets 1 for PvE and another for PvP where the 2 never ever meet in the middle.

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The only reason this game gets away with as much stuff as it does is because its star wars. Class balance shouldn't be a bi-yearly event, class balance should be on going and forever changing. Its a battle they will never win but its one worth fighting for. PVP and PVE in this game have terrible group variations, there is a best in this game and it stays that way for a long time so it doesn't really promote playing anything other than that.

 

So what a "Assassin" can pull acceptable numbers in HM raids, the same player could do doing way more on a marauder. You want to play a Sorc heal in rated? You will lose against every single group using a Op unless you greatly out skill them.

 

The player base should be able to be competitive with every single spec and not be punished for playing what they want. At the end of the day of course certain advanced classes and specs are going to be better are certain things than others, but why for example does a marauder have the best single target dps, best AOE damage spec, best utility and best defensive cooldowns out of all the melee classes? Same goes for ranged, Snipers outclass every other range dps in the game in everyway possible. Bioware has even acknowledged this and still do nothing about it.

 

It doesn't take long to do these changes despite what some may believe, hell the community in the game does most of the work for them but they seem to just ignore it. I would also like to just add if these changes do actually take a long time wouldn't it be in their best interest to hire more people to work on it? Borrow some hours from the cartel team.

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Because Sins have utility that Mara's do not?

 

In NiM this may be a different discussion, but for HM... yeah I'll take that utility if they're putting out top flight DPS (3k+).

 

What utility does a Sin have that a marauder doesn't? Stealth?, Taunt. No serious raid group in the world would bring them in a raid for that. Sins aren't putting out 3k Parses either, even after their buff they look to still be the worst dps in the game. If you played back when NM TFB came out hitting the dps requirement with a Sin dps wasn't even possible on a raid dummy let alone the actual raid.

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What utility does a Sin have that a marauder doesn't? Stealth?, Taunt. No serious raid group in the world would bring them in a raid for that. Sins aren't putting out 3k Parses either, even after their buff they look to still be the worst dps in the game. If you played back when NM TFB came out hitting the dps requirement with a Sin dps wasn't even possible on a raid dummy let alone the actual raid.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/501203/28

 

3.4k DPS on Nefra HM. Yeah, Shadows/Sins aren't putting out 3k+ parses.

 

Combat stealth, resilience, taunts, being able to tank if need be -- these are all utilities that can be exploited in HM. In the NiM setting it's much more about maximizing every inch of DPS, but HM not so much. These things can stand out.

 

As a comparative, however, the top sentinel parse on Nefra 8 HM? 3,596. The fact that the Shadow I linked can do 3,414 before the 2.5 buffs... hey, they look to be in a pretty good spot DPS wise.

 

edit: My main point is this: when DPS classes are within 1-3% of each other [in terms of DPS] responsible raid leaders should look at maximizing utility. In SWTOR's patchwerk fight, Nefra -- which is the best tool we have at measuring DPS numbers in a real raid environment -- the top Shadow parse is a mere 1.03% behind the top Sentinel parse. This means they can more than hold their own while giving raid leaders tools they wouldn't have before.

Edited by Mavery
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http://www.torparse.com/a/501203/28

 

3.4k DPS on Nefra HM. Yeah, Shadows/Sins aren't putting out 3k+ parses.

 

Combat stealth, resilience, taunts, being able to tank if need be -- these are all utilities that can be exploited in HM. In the NiM setting it's much more about maximizing every inch of DPS, but HM not so much. These things can stand out.

 

As a comparative, however, the top sentinel parse on Nefra 8 HM? 3,596. The fact that the Shadow I linked can do 3,414 before the 2.5 buffs... hey, they look to be in a pretty good spot DPS wise.

 

edit: My main point is this: when DPS classes are within 1-3% of each other [in terms of DPS] responsible raid leaders should look at maximizing utility. In SWTOR's patchwerk fight, Nefra -- which is the best tool we have at measuring DPS numbers in a real raid environment -- the top Shadow parse is a mere 1.03% behind the top Sentinel parse. This means they can more than hold their own while giving raid leaders tools they wouldn't have before.

 

You link one good parse on a extremely short boss fight with no mechanics or movement? You might as well have linked Fabricator in KP.

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Yea.. bunch of lip service to shut people up.

 

1000 posts and 100 pages on Sage/Sorc and we still have not seen a REAL RESPONSE.

 

Brainstorming has another couple hundred posts, but doubt anything good will happen to Sage/Sorc cause we just need to L2P and H2F. (Yea.. BW still has most us pissed about lack of TACT on that one + No changes)

 

Quick look at Leaderboard.. Three maybe Four Sage/Sorc and those are some of the best players in the game. Safe to say 4 out of 50 is not exactly "Balance" if you ask me. Gee.. Operatives are all over the boards, I wonder who would have guessed that. WE DID.. The user community.. the ones pointing it out to the BIOWARE DEV's before it happened.

 

Pull your pants up BIOWARE.. your SITH is showing... :D

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You link one good parse on a extremely short boss fight with no mechanics or movement? You might as well have linked Fabricator in KP.

 

That's the whole point, man. It's a real raid boss where DPSers can show how much they can put out. That isn't just the scrutinized shadows/asassins. By that logic, Sents/Maras need buffs too, right?

 

Let's do another one.

 

According to TORParse, the top Sentinel parse on Corrupter Zero is 3,171 and the top Shadow parse is 2,981. That is a difference of 1.06%

 

So a fight with actual mechanics and the differential increases by .03%. Virtually inconsequential.

 

What's the excuse for the Corrupter Zero data?

 

edit: To further put these numbers in perspective, the real damage done differential between the Sent and Shadow is 57,000 over a five minute fight. In the case of Corrupter Zero, assuming you took 300 seconds to kill him (most do it in less) that is 2.5% of his health.

 

According to the numbers, unless you're hitting enrage at 2.5%, heh, it really doesn't matter who you bring. So if you could use a Shadows utility, why not?

Edited by Mavery
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What utility does a Sin have that a marauder doesn't? Stealth?, Taunt. No serious raid group in the world would bring them in a raid for that. Sins aren't putting out 3k Parses either, even after their buff they look to still be the worst dps in the game. If you played back when NM TFB came out hitting the dps requirement with a Sin dps wasn't even possible on a raid dummy let alone the actual raid.

 

I'm not sure why people like you bother with blatantly wrong information, but the actual fact of the matter is that of the very small number of guilds who beat NiM Dread Guards before any of the nerfs (heavy mechanics + DPS check), one of them used a Balance Shadow for DPS.

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