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What if SWTOR mounts were... SPEEDERS! [->Youtube video inside]


Lord_Ravenhurst

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Well... first off, you would be running into things because it was as fast as a racing game.

and seconldy you would be loading everything waaaay too late... Enemies would pop up half a meter infront of you, not to mention that the game would have trouble rendering the world itself so you would either see 3D structures without textures or they would simply be invisible...

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't like how slow the mounts are, but going as fast as a "real" speeder would be disastrous...

 

 

If you don't believe me on this, just watch what happens when you ride on some of the faster taxi's in the game... you have artifact popping and NPC's showing up right as you pass them... And other players don't render until you actually have passed them quite alot of the time.

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It would be really cool going fast. But I really do think a lot of people would be running into stuff and be complaining they were too fast.

 

I see what you mean though. It's just designed to be a specific speed so it flows with the worlds well and doesn't cause problems.

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They've said they'll make faster speeders once the tech guys tell them its possible.

 

Actually, I think your first video shows a lot more. Better music triggers and some animated loading screens would be a much more elegant way to transition between environments. You also did something so crucial to Star Wars style--optical wipes between scenes. Even at the time Star Wars was made, optical wipes were considered an old-fashioned technique, yet the film made them work. Those cuts are part of the Star Wars brand--and seem to have been completely ignored in SWTOR. Nice work on this--it would be nice to get a technical perspective on why it would/wouldn't work.

Edited by Drebs
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It would be really cool going fast. But I really do think a lot of people would be running into stuff and be complaining they were too fast.

 

I see what you mean though. It's just designed to be a specific speed so it flows with the worlds well and doesn't cause problems.

Easy, make the speeders speed adjustable. Problem solved. Cap it at like 400% on the tighter locations and then for the more open world places cap it at about 900-1000%. Would make the game that much more fun. OP, great vid(s). Glad you decided to expound upon my topic from sometime ago and make my dreams a reality if only in a video.
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They've said they'll make faster speeders once the tech guys tell them its possible.

 

Actually, I think your first video shows a lot more. Better music triggers and some animated loading screens would be a much more elegant way to transition between environments. You also did something so crucial to Star Wars style--optical wipes between scenes. Even at the time Star Wars was made, optical wipes were considered an old-fashioned technique, yet the film made them work. Those cuts are part of the Star Wars brand--and seem to have been completely ignored in SWTOR. Nice work on this--it would be nice to get a technical perspective on why it would/wouldn't work.

 

Yeah, I try to include them in my storyline videos, but it just feels soooooo wrong to use wipes in general :/

 

It's probably why they are not in the game...

Edited by OddballEasyEight
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Here is the second episode of my little "What if.." miniseries where my smuggler takes a trip to Nar Shaddaa in an "alternate reality" version of SWTOR

 

So what kind of CPU/Memory/Storage hardware are you using in that "alternate reality"? How much time did you spend optimizing the servers and engine? Because you know that the faster the speeders go, the harder the game has to work to get textures, models, and animations loaded. And then they have to run faster checks for area triggers like quests and no-speeder zones and mob attacks and geometry collisions. This is one of the reasons why taxis can go faster: No collisions, no quest triggers, no mob interactions, and you can pre-cook the path, speed and environment to avoid the worst pain of resource loading.

 

Again, it's fun to slap together these hypothetical improvements, but if you're not going to spend any time considering the technical limitations or impacts of those changes, then its nothing more than some guy making a funny video. It takes very little thought to come up with "Hey, they should make speeders faster!" Its not as if the developers hadn't even considered it until you came along. It takes a lot more thought to solve problems like how to optimize texture loading and collision checks at that speed. Do that, and I'll be more interested in your "improvements".

Edited by Malastare
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While I do wish speeders were *slightly* faster, that video is a little too fast for me. I'd only like it if SPECIFIC speeders were that fast for the sake of pod-racing or something. I lag enough and that would have me driving in circles and constantly crashing into things!

 

I really loved your first video though. I wish the cut scenes were really something more amazing to watch....but seeing the same ship fly to the exact same looking planet with just a few minor color changes warrants a spacebar from me each time. But if it looked more like the TOR's console game planet landings, I'd watch them each time!

Edited by blindxsecrets
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Well... first off, you would be running into things because it was as fast as a racing game.

and seconldy you would be loading everything waaaay too late... Enemies would pop up half a meter infront of you, not to mention that the game would have trouble rendering the world itself so you would either see 3D structures without textures or they would simply be invisible...

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't like how slow the mounts are, but going as fast as a "real" speeder would be disastrous...

 

 

If you don't believe me on this, just watch what happens when you ride on some of the faster taxi's in the game... you have artifact popping and NPC's showing up right as you pass them... And other players don't render until you actually have passed them quite alot of the time.

 

God I hate this engine... sooo %^&*ing much .....

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I've gotta say, it's impressive how much more your first video feels like Star Wars than the entire game of SWTOR does. SWTOR has always been lacking something and, at least to me, it's never felt quite like Star Wars in many aspects. Your first video, though, really hits it well and feels like it's in the Star Wars setting.
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The first video really nailed the way the game should transition. It looks like a Star Wars movie. The speeder looks a bit fast but I like it, as mentioned crashing into things because steering would be a pain and the engine will more than likely have issues. But both impressive.
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How much time did you spend optimizing the servers and engine? [...] if you're not going to spend any time considering the technical limitations or impacts of those changes [...] It takes a lot more thought to solve problems like how to optimize texture loading and collision checks at that speed.

 

I'm not directly picking on you, Malastare, I am taking a few things you said as examples of apologistic arguments made on Bioware's behalf which can be found all over these forums. The problem is that these arguments, representative of Bioware's approach, are being made in a vacuum where SWTOR is the only MMO in town, and the limitations of its preposterously bad engine are a sort of "given".

 

Sadly, the fact is that the game's engine and the limitations it imposes are ludicrous when compared to other MMO's (I hesitate to use the term "industry standard"). While the reality that it would take too many resources (man-hours and cost) to optimize texture loading and collision checks (for example) is apparent, the real argument is that optimzation of these things shouldn't be necessary to begin with. It should all work just fine, 310% flying mounts with no issues should be a given ... instead, we talk about this (and only this) MMO's unique limitations as "givens".

 

Bioware's engine is like North Korea. It isolates its people from a standard of living that the rest of the (technologically advanced) world considers "normal", and brainwashes its population into thinking that nothing else is possible.

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I'm not directly picking on you, Malastare, I am taking a few things you said as examples of apologistic arguments made on Bioware's behalf which can be found all over these forums. The problem is that these arguments, representative of Bioware's approach, are being made in a vacuum where SWTOR is the only MMO in town, and the limitations of its preposterously bad engine are a sort of "given".

 

Sadly, the fact is that the game's engine and the limitations it imposes are ludicrous when compared to other MMO's (I hesitate to use the term "industry standard"). While the reality that it would take too many resources (man-hours and cost) to optimize texture loading and collision checks (for example) is apparent, the real argument is that optimzation of these things shouldn't be necessary to begin with. It should all work just fine, 310% flying mounts with no issues should be a given ... instead, we talk about this (and only this) MMO's unique limitations as "givens".

 

Bioware's engine is like North Korea. It isolates its people from a standard of living that the rest of the (technologically advanced) world considers "normal", and brainwashes its population into thinking that nothing else is possible.

 

So in what other MMO's do they have 310% mounts?

I'm genuinely curious because all I've played when it comes to MMO's is SW:TOR, APB(&APB-R), Planetside 2 and SWG.

And in APB there were problems with artifacts popping in when driving very fast. SWG and PS2 doesn't really have stuff going that fast (except planes in PS2 and they have a whole different system of rendering than ground troops).

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So in what other MMO's do they have 310% mounts?

I'm genuinely curious because all I've played when it comes to MMO's is SW:TOR, APB(&APB-R), Planetside 2 and SWG.

And in APB there were problems with artifacts popping in when driving very fast. SWG and PS2 doesn't really have stuff going that fast (except planes in PS2 and they have a whole different system of rendering than ground troops).

 

World of Warcraft. They can fly, too.

 

And if you played Planetside 2 - try hopping in an ESF. Or a quad for that matter, slap on turbo and enjoy the speed. Btw, aerial units have the same system of rendering as ground troops since they, you know, use the same engine and you can merrily lolpod grunts on the ground all day long.

 

In this game the only "speeders" I can drive are the "segway" ones because at least then it feels like I should take some time to catch up with that guy jogging over there.

Edited by Gaudrath
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Here is the second episode of my little "What if.." miniseries where my smuggler takes a trip to Nar Shaddaa in an "alternate reality" version of SWTOR ;)

 

Episode 2 -

 

Episode 1 -

 

For the speeders, at that speed you'ld miss things, like those missions that are given out in the field, and you would hit things. I agree speeders could be faster, but not by that much, in fact probably not by the amount people want, or they would complain that the mission icons (were the datapad giving the mission is) in the field are to easy to miss.

 

For the cutscenes, we have plenty already, and getting onto the planet is long enough already, admittedly a few for important bits wouldn't hurt, but that's a minor tweek.

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Those are very good ideas, the speeder video actually reminds of the video demo of the hoverboard from the upcoming MMO WIldStar.

 

Unfortunately the game was rushed to launch and uses a very poor engine. If we traveled that fast in game we would either have invisible assets or a huge fps drop.

 

Alas, your videos show how swtor could be if the game was made by people that actually enjoyed the Star Wars series, and not gambling boxes and tauntauns with red noses.

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