Barrage and PPA procs

[Nekoryuu]

Hoy !

 

According to the talent trees, Barrage (Arsenal) and Prototype Particle Accelerator (Pyrotech) have the same proc chances and the same internal CD:

 

- Barrage: Power Shot and Tracer Missile have 45% chance to proc Barrage. 6s internal CD.

- PPA: Power Shot have 45% chance (and Unload have 75%) to proc PPA. 6s internal CD

 

The fact is that in a 5 minutes fight, I "always" have one/two/three 20~40 seconds windows were Barrage don't proc. And when I switch to Pyro I have absolutly no problem with PPA procs: Two, rarely three Power Shots and it procs. But in Arsenal, I always have 2 or 3 moments where I need to cast 5, 6, 7 Tracers to proc (my best: 16 Tracers and 45 seconds without a single Barrage proc).

Side note: I have problems to proc Barrage with either Tracers and Power Shot (yeah I know, we don't need Power Shot in Arsenal, it was for testing).

 

Aannnddd what append if I take both Barrage in Arsenal tree and PPA in Pyrotech tree ? The same problem: Power Shot always procs PPA as intended, while Barrage procs sometimes after 20+ seconds.

 

Do you have the same problem, or it is juste me ?

Edited November 19, 2013 by Nekoryuu

[Rebel_Guy]

Very much so... Because of this, and the fact that there's no free railshot have made me frustrated with arsenal, and now I only go Pyro on my mercenary. It's just much more consistent and I personally have better dps with pyro vs when I try to arsenal.

[saatana]

No it´s not just you. It´s really common to shoot 10+ Tracer Missiles in row without Barrage procs. I have those streaks every raid I do.

Barrage is broken somehow.

[Leylea]

Funny ... a few days ago i thought about opening exact the same post, but a havent had time for this (and probably was a little too lazy ),

 

Since 2.4 and the buggy trololol-16-heat-raishot bug i am playing pyro more often in DP and DF. First i thought the 'strange' procc behaviour might be associated to this bug, but it is fixed now a few weeks and i still experience the same u discribed. I have tested a lot with the operation dummy and i can agree to a 100% to ur report.

 

Something is wrong with the rs procc ... sad but true ... likely still bugged (and a fix would result in a explicit nerf for pyro )

[Loc_n_lol]

Something is wrong with the rs procc ... sad but true ... likely still bugged (and a fix would result in a explicit nerf for pyro )

So what you're saying is you think ppa procs more often than it's supposed to ? It does seem like I rarely need more than 2 power shots to get a free rail shot.

 

EDIT: I've been trying a few times on the dummy. Not enough to be statistically relevant but interesting :

Out of 33 attempts

Pyro procs:

12 times on the first power shot

21 times on the second power shot

Arsenal procs:

14 times on the first tracer missile

11 times on the second tracer missile

4 times on the third tracer missile

3 times on the fourth tracer missile

once on the fifth tracer missile

 

It looks like PPA will *always* trigger on the second attempt after the minimum delay has passed.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Loc_n_lol

[odawgg]

PPA can only proc every 6s, so any power shots you do in the first 2 GCDs after using a proc'd rail shot will not be able to proc it, but the 3rd one can. The proc rate appears to be cumulative solely for pyro mercs (and assault commandos)....meaning the chance to proc stacks additively. For instance, power shot will give you 45% chance to proc, but the 2nd one will give you a 90% chance. Same with unload, a combination of unload and power shot will automatically proc rail shot. This additive chance will begin to cumulate even before the 6s internal cd of PPA is up, but will not proc until the cd is done. So you can pop a power shot while it's on cd and as soon as it's off you can pop another to give you the 90% chance. If you use unload following a proc'd rail shot...the next power shot will auto proc.

 

It has been this way since 2.0 launched but I've tried not to call too much attention to it, I do not know if it was intended or not by BW, probably not. But it's the only thing allowing pyro to be viable in any situation. If they revert back to arsenal-like proc rates for barrage, this spec will be dead again.

[LordKantner]

PPA procs consistently, Barrage does not. If you fire a power shot within the 6 second - 6.2 second window, PPA will proc 100% of the time. If it didn't proc you were either too early or too late.

 

Arsenal/Gunnery procs don't have consistency at all, welcome to the enlightened world of Pyro/Assault spec.

[Nekoryuu]

So... PPA is probably bugged too, but like Odawgg said: this cumulative procs are maybe not intended, but at least it makes Pyro a viable spec. Maybe this "cumulative proc" can be an idea to bring in the class-balancing threads about arsenal if it's not already the case. I'd like to be a bit less RNG-dependant.

 

And about Barrage... Like I said in the first post, in a 5 minutes fight there is always a +20s window without a single Barrage proc. Being unlucky at this point is ok once, but it can't be at every parse. This is absolutely not possible and since it seems to be reccurent to all of us, this is not just bad-RNG moments, Barrage seems to be really bugged... and since quite a while now.

 

Hmm... I don't know if I have to feel reassured or worried...

[odawgg]

I haven't noticed any bugs with barrage, just some bad RNG at times... If you bring this up on the brainstorming thread it will backfire in Pyro specs face next time they decide to look at Pyro... My opinion anyway, bugs eventually get fixed, not acknowledged and then get made permanent lol

[odawgg]

If someone wants to post their parses where they think they're being unreasonably unlucky > hence a bug... I'll take a look at it. My money is on it just being good ole' fashion Merc Arsenal RNG! Something that's been with us since launch sometimes it can be in our favor though too remember. Edited November 21, 2013 by odawgg

[saatana]

PPA can only proc every 6s, *snip*.

 

Could you use your Force Persuade on Dev team and make them apply same mechanic (bug? ninja feature?) to Barrage as is in PPA now?

 

You could also try threats and bribery, what ever works. Those unlucky streaks as you call them kill my DPS when they happend and if that happends in tight DPS race spot, it´s a wipe. Wiping because of RNG is not fun no matter how you put it.

[The_Duck]

Played Arsenal for 2 years and finally switched to Pyro last week.

I like the rotation a lot more from a consistency and heat standpoint.

Definitely more mobile as well.

 

As Arsenal if my Unload got interrupted I would be pissed, but as Pryo the Unload still pops railshot off cooldown so I don't mind at all.

[ArchangelLBC]

God I wish they'd make Barrage/Curtain of Fire work the same way. Seems a pretty fail bit of programming that PPA is working like it is, but for once it's a fail in our favor so I'll take it. Sadly, as Odawgg said, I fear if we call attention to it, they'll just nerf Pyro/Assault instead of buffing Arsenal/Gunnery which is really too bad on all counts.

 

 

Honestly if Barrage worked like this I think that would fix literally all of Arsenal's heat issues since Unload is the one heat neutral/heat positive skill we currently possess that isn't just Rapid Shots.

[Krusched]

Another possibility is that PPA is functioning as the double vent heat glitch did where the game registers both the main-hand and offhand hits of power shot and unload so you actually have almost a 90% chance to proc unless one of your hits misses. This would also explain barrage because tracer missile is tech and therefore has no offhand hit on the enemy. I doubt this is the case but hey we have seen weirder things in this game.

[ArchangelLBC]

Another possibility is that PPA is functioning as the double vent heat glitch did where the game registers both the main-hand and offhand hits of power shot and unload so you actually have almost a 90% chance to proc unless one of your hits misses. This would also explain barrage because tracer missile is tech and therefore has no offhand hit on the enemy. I doubt this is the case but hey we have seen weirder things in this game.

 

No because Commandos are noticing the same discrepancy in proc chances, and we don't have offhand hits.

[Krusched]

No because Commandos are noticing the same discrepancy in proc chances, and we don't have offhand hits.

 

Very true, plus Powertechs see the same consistency with flame burst. Good consistency for pyro and ****** rng for arsenal is pretty much all it is.

[Mastershroom]

Wiping because of RNG is not fun no matter how you put it.

My Vigilance Guardian agrees with you. The main thing about that spec is that Master Strike (Ravage) can have its cooldown reset by two abilities, but those abilities have reasonably high cooldowns on their own, and if neither proc a MS/Ravage reset, it's a while before you can try again. Half the times my Master Strike ends up going through its full cooldown without a proc.

 

And what did we get for all our complaints about it? A root during Master Strike that costs two extra skill points and is literally useless in PvE.