Deception / Infiltration

[JackNader]

Infiltration / Deception

 

This spec excels in only one area of swtors content, regular warzones. For all other content (arenas, Raid and the PvE level up experience) it leaves much to be desired.

 

Regular Warzones

 

Deception excels in regular warzones primarily due to the electric ambush talent. This talent reduces the active cooldown of recklessness by 60 seconds each time that you exit combat. In addition it also builds 3 static charges which allows you to cast your discharge immediately at full damage. On the surface this might not seem like much, however, combined with the PvP set bonus and the fact that you enter and exit combat a great deal, it's actually a very potent talent. During a typical regular warzone I found that the time to kill for most classes is well within deceptions burst phase. I find this ironic because Bioware drastically changed the voltaic / discharge relationship in 2.0 to make the top tier talent more attractive and to discourage hybrids. It's ironic because I never really get to use voltaic slash in regs. The targets are typically dead well before I get to the sustained damage phase.

 

Electric ambush is one of 2 reasons why I stopped playing deception. I personally feel that the electric ambush provides deception with too much burst potential. Keep in mind that this talent can be further exploited via combat exit, granting a total of 6 +60% crit force attacks over an extremely short period of time.

 

The other reason I stopped playing deception is that the tree actively encourages stunlock gameplay. I am a big supporter of "tactical" stun usage. That is, stuns which are used to counter hard hitting attacks or allow objectives to change hands. Swtor has had serious problems with stuns since launch. A lot of players, including myself, actively call swtor "Stun Wars The Frozen Republic." In saying that, Deception has a lot of damage procs which trigger off of the stunned condition. This "forces" the player to stun lock an opponent just to maximize damage. This sort of advanced class design has consequences. These consequences are more visible in the other areas of swtors content which I will discuss further down the page.

 

Spike

 

One of my pet hates of the assassin class is the spike ability. The majority of assassins that open on me will ALWAYS use spike. I can understand this to some extent. The ability has a stealth only requirement so naturally one would assume that Bioware intended it to be used as an opener. Unfortunately, most people fail to read its tool tip damage or take into account the force regeneration overlap.

 

All Deception assassins are going to choose the Dark Embrace talent. Dark Embrace provides +50% force regeneration for 6 seconds after exiting stealth. Spike has a 20 force cost. The amount of force regenerated with Dark Embrace procced is 18. If saber conduit procs, the amount of force regenerated can be as high as 28. What this means is that if saber conduit procs, you lose 8 force. A duplicity procced maul is 13 force. Again, wasted force regeneration.

 

The other issue is the amount of damage that spike does. To be an effective opener, spike + a duplicity procced maul should always yield higher damage than any other combination. Other combinations are maul + discharge or maul + a duplicity procced maul. Mathematically, this just isn't the case. So not only do you run the risk of wasting your Dark Embrace but you also do consistently less opening damage. This mean that spike is most effectively used as a re-opener. Re-openings are done when you are literally out of force and you need a low force cost rotation while maintaining pressure on your target.

 

 

PvE Levelling

 

Recently I leveled a shadow strictly through PvE. This was a big eye opener as up until then I had only experienced this advanced class from the perspective of my 55 assassins. During the process I switched continuously between the 3 different specs so that I could experience their progression as I leveled up. Unfortunately I found that both DPS specs have serious design flaws which made the process rather uncomfortable. More often then not I kept switching back into the kinetic combat tree simply because the gameplay flows a lot better.

 

The first really big issue with infiltration is its lack of AOE. You literally do not have any AOE damaging abilities till level 26 when you pick up Whirling Blow ( Lacerate ). If you look at all the other non consular / inquisitor classes, they all have one thing in common... Quality AOE. AOE is extremely important during the level up process as the bulk of the mobs you fight are trash mobs. Whirling blow has a 40 force cost. It's single target damage is equal to approximately half a double strike. Mathematically speaking, you "need" to hit a minimum of 4 targets for the ability to be worth the force cost. The tank tree fairs a bit better because whirling blow also procs particle acceleration and you can cast it when surrounded by a minimum of 3 targets. The closest comparable ability to Whirling Blow is Flame Sweep. Flame Sweep is staple leveling ability of all 3 Powertech trees. Flame Sweep + Flame Thrower is a really efficient way of dispensing trash mobs.

 

The next big problem for infiltration is the shadow strike (maul) ability. Shadow strike CANNOT be used directly on NPCs who you've aggroed. This is a really annoying feature especially considering that the entire tree revolves around the use of shadow strike in conjunction with the Infiltration Tactics ( Duplicity ) proc. The only way you can use shadow strike on an aggroed target is via low slash or force stun. Low slash has a major weakness in that it's extremely unreliable. This is entirely due to the fact that it is a melee based ability. Low slash "misses" a lot! Each time that it misses, your infiltration tactics proc goes out the window and it is another 15 seconds before you can try again.

 

Lastly, shadow strike has a tendency to refuse to cast in PvE. You can be standing behind a stunned NPC target and have your screen filled up with error messages.. "Must be behind target to use, etc" I don't know what causes this but it occurs all the time. To give a ballpark figure, it occurs probably 3 or 4 times for every 10 mobs cleared.

 

Arena

 

The main difference between regular warzones and arenas is the amount of times you enter and exit combat. Arena's are restricted to 1 combat re-entry. This is the double edged sword of the electric ambush talent. Being restricted to 1 combat re-entry puts a sizable cap on the specs ability to burst. Once deceptions burst is gone, the contribution of the spec goes out the window. Deception has the worst sustained damage of any spec in the game. It's beyond terrible.

 

Raid content

 

Essentially this is identical to how the spec performs in arenas. Sustained damage is what is important and deceptions sustained damage is very sub par.

 

 

How to fix the spec?

 

* First of all, electric ambush needs to have its functionality altered so that it doesn't have such a massive impact across the different swtor content types. It CANNOT reset on combat exit.

 

A better way of dealing with the talent is to simply give recklessness a flat cooldown reduction or have damage dealt reduce the active cooldown of recklessness.

 

* Discharge should not require 3 stacks in order to use. This is problematic for 2 reasons. Firstly because Bioware had to include the electric ambush changes to give the spec back its burst and secondly because of the RNG in acquiring those discharge stacks.

 

Give discharge back its 15 seconds cooldown. Allow damage dealt by voltaic slash and thrash to reduce the active cooldown of discharge. In addition, give voltaic slash a chance to proc your surging charge on a separate rate limit so that it is required to use for optimal damage.

 

* Whirling blow needs to have its damage component increased by ~ 40% - 50%. Give whirling blow a chance to proc duplicity. This would yield a much better PvE leveling experience.

 

* Maul "needs" to have it's use from behind requirement removed while duplicity is procced. This would drastically improve PvE leveling as well as get rid of the annoying "must be behind target bug." I can't stress this change enough!!!!

 

* Remove the duplicity proc on Low slash. Make it so that it cannot miss. Apply an additional utility - If low slash breaks early, it reduces all damage dealt to all targets but you by 30% or, Snares the target, etc

 

* Mind trap should not have a force cost. The reason for this arises when you mez a target and want to immediately open on a second target. The force cost requirement seriously limits your opening damage.

 

* Spike needs another look at.

Edited November 12, 2013 by JackNader

[Evolixe]

Wow... there is so much wrong with this thread I don't even know what to say.

[JackNader]

Wow... there is so much wrong with this thread I don't even know what to say.

 

You didn't even read it and don't bother trying to say that you did. You read a couple of lines, saw something you didn't agree with and then hit reply.

Edited November 12, 2013 by JackNader

[Evolixe]

Please, why would I bother with details if your suggestions are just plainly stupid?

 

This class is fine as it is, it's heading towards becoming stupid OP next patch and the last thing we need are the stuff you suggest to be changed.

 

You're free to come back with new suggestions once you actually know the class.

[monshie]

While I don't always see exactly eye to eye with Evolixe he is normally pretty spot on and I have to agree here. Could use some tact (no offense Evolixe :-) ) There are some quality of life issues with leveling and PvE speced infiltration, but I never had much of an issue with it. The only issue I always had was you wanting to start from stealth and a lot of the quests don't let you get into stealth before the elite mob appears. Other than that I didn't see any issues. In PvP I think we are in a fairly good spot in both regs and arena. Ranked arena can't be a bit challenging, but can certainly be done with skill. The changes coming in 2.5 will hopefully address some of the PvE issues we have so I think shadow/assassins will be in a pretty good spot after 2.5.

[JackNader]

While I don't always see exactly eye to eye with Evolixe he is normally pretty spot on and I have to agree here..

 

If Evolixe is correct in what he says, then WHY does he not run full balance or full infiltration? That's a rhetorical question btw

 

All he did was shoot his mouth off while contributing absolutely nothing to this thread.

Edited November 12, 2013 by JackNader

[Evolixe]

If Evolixe is correct in what he says, then WHY does he not run full balance or full infiltration? That's a rhetorical question btw

 

What does that even mean?

[Sideblaze]

Sorry, You don't get to complain. Operatives need it more.

[thejollygreenone]

Sorry, You don't get to complain. Operatives need it more.

 

i disagree here, regardless of how outlandish OPs changes may or may not be.

 

in pve at least, operatives have 3 trees that are relatively well off. i don't even need to mention healing, because we all know they excel there, while shadow tanks are in a similar situation (at least soon will be). concealment isn't as bad as it's made out to be, as far as i can tell it tends to be on par with deception, if not then a little worse off. HOWEVER! lethality i'd argue is in a slightly better place than madness.

 

the numbers show that dps is roughly equal between the two specs for the top players of each spec (scaling for boss conditions included), however that's where the similarities end, because our top balance shadow is miles ahead of all the other balance/infiltration top players. the big difference is that there are many more people able to achieve the current potential of lethality, while that is certainly not the case for madness. one balance players has gotten to the 3100s on a dummy, while the rest in the top 5 cant break 2900, this gap is what makes me think that lethality is, if anything, better off than madness.

 

so with all that comparing of specs considered, i'd say neither operative nor assassin needs more help than the other when it comes down to it. just be happy you have plenty of players who are breaking 3000 dps on a dummy, and have a utility spec that is at the top of its field (healing spec). however that last sentance is pretty opinion heavy and i wouldn't consider it a real argument, nor a reason to neglect help to any class.

 

conclusion: both assassin and operative needs a good bit of work, lets not get into a pissing contest about who needs more help, because honestly i don't think it matters. imo it's more depressing than helpful. sorry for the unnecessarily long post, per usual, but i wanted to try to lay this "our class needs moar help than your class!" attitude to rest (on both present sides), while at the same time disputing the idea.

 

P.S. as i mentioned, this is from a purely PVE perspective, seeing as i have no right to be speaking about the state of classes in PVP, so if that's what you were focusing on sorry for 4 paragraphs of pointlessness!

[JackNader]

Deception

 

Regular Warzone : Strong

PvE Leveling : Weak

Arena : Weak

Raid : Weak

 

Madness

 

Regular Warzone : Weak

PvE Leveling : Weak

Arena : Weak

Raid : Weak

 

Concealment

 

Regular Warzone : Strong

PvE Leveling : Average

Arena : Weak

Raid : Average

 

Lethality

 

Regular Warzone : Average

PvE Leveling : Average

Arena : Weak

Raid : Average (slightly better than concealment)

 

DPS Operatives do need work but for different reasons. It's mostly their survivability which pulls them down in Arena content.

Edited November 13, 2013 by JackNader

[ishbindeinvater]

puhhh

 

where to begin?

 

first, we are a burst class and NEED the burst in every fight we begin, so the design with electric ambush is just fine. Outside of our burst, we dont have much to offer. We can spam auto-attacks and have to take care a lot about our force to have enough for the low-slashes, maul, shock, discharge. We are highly limited by our force pool and the high energy costs of our attacks. We need procs to help with our sustained damage.

 

compare that to what a marauder can do or even a jugg. They have burst and pressure with NO breaks, we have a little more burst and limited pressure with breaks.

 

About your complain about spike and so on. How do YOU begin your fight? how do you get your duplicity proc without spike?! Dont forget, duplicity also procs +30% damage on maul, and spike isnt about the damage, its about the knockdown too, and if specced a 70% slow. And I dont understand your problem with "wasting force". Ok, when you open up with spike+maul you will waste some force. Whats the matter there? You dont always start up with spike+maul, sometimes its just maul or shock, discharge, low slash, maul. You need that fast force regeneration especially if you cloak and re-open or when you hit blackout. Your solution must mean that there should be lower, but longer regeneration? Thats probably just good for an opener but the open sequence is just a small part of a whole fight...

 

probably i just dont get your point here. What is it what you complain about?!

Edited November 13, 2013 by ishbindeinvater

[JackNader]

According to my tool tip

 

Spike = 942

maul = 3826

duplicity maul = 4908

Duplicity maul with spikes + 6% damage = 5427

Discharge = 2837

 

Best case scenario with crits

 

Spike + duplicity maul with spikes 6% increase

 

(1.5* 942) + (1.8 * 5427) = 1413 + 9768.6 = 11181.6

 

Maul + duplicity maul

 

(1.8 * 3826) + (1.8 * 4908) = 6886.8 + 8834.4 = 15721.2

 

Maul + discharge

 

(1.8 * 3826) + ( 2 * 2837) = 6886.6 + 5674 = 12560.8

 

The whole point of "deception" is to burst the target down as fast as possible. You want to inflict the maximum amount of damage in the shortest time frame. If you open with spike you are using the "least" optimal burst opener. Spike + Maul is a low force cost high damage move. It is not something you want to use at 100 force. This is why it is a "re-opener." You never open with spike unless you have a specific reason too.

 

How do I open? Always maul first. If I proc duplicity off of that maul then I will use maul again. If it does not proc I will use autocrit discharge. Maul + autocrit discharge is the most consistent way to open because your more likely to crit with discharge than with maul. This pushes your opening average damage up quite a bit. The other massive drawback on opening with spike is the 10 duplicity second lockout. This means you cannot use low slash for 10 seconds after your open or you will fail to proc duplicity again. I don't know anyone who does not low slash in the first 10 seconds.

Edited November 13, 2013 by JackNader

[IInox]

well without saying about spike or not spike:

 

if u said u want the best burst why you start with unprocced maul?

 

start with discharge > (if crit) Maul (if not) shock > Maul so you use maul with +9% crit melee.

[JackNader]

The highest burst you can do is maul + duplicity maul... that is what I am looking for when I open. Yes, you could open with discharge then maul. Discharge + maul would yield better damage than maul + discharge but like I said, your locking yourself out of max burst potential. The other drawback to a Discharge + maul is you can potentially bleed 8 force. Regardless, all 3 of those openers are valid and certainly better than spike + maul. Edited November 13, 2013 by JackNader

[monshie]

If Evolixe is correct in what he says, then WHY does he not run full balance or full infiltration? That's a rhetorical question btw

 

All he did was shoot his mouth off while contributing absolutely nothing to this thread.

 

While I agree his tone could be better that doesn't mean he was wrong. I agree with him your post has a lot of wrong in it, so it is easier just to disregard the whole thing. He plays the hybrid spec because it works well for him and is in a pretty good spot PvP wise when played well. There are some advantages to playing the spec in PvP vs full infiltration. Doesn't mean that infiltration is not viable. I play full infiltration and have no problems in either WZs or arenas. I am regularly in the top for damage(although I don't think that means a whole lot about effectiveness by itself). This is top without any splash damage so it is hard for me to believe you when you say we are weak in arena or WZs.

 

I agree there are some quality of life things that would be nice, but in no way are we in bad shape for PvP. We could use a little tweaking in PvE and that is happening in 2.5.

[JackNader]

My post has nothing "wrong" in it. Name one thing where I am incorrect.

 

Here.. let me sumarise my entire post into simple to understand questions. I dare you to refute any of them.

 

Is full deception a regstar pro spec? Yes

Do regular warzones facilitate more combat entry and exits than raid and arena? Yes

Is the reason that it performs really well in reg warzones but sub par in arenas most notably due to the relationship between electric ambush and the amount of combat exits? Yes

Does deception revolve around stunlocking the target? Yes

Is the reason because there are a lot of bonus damage procs based off of the stunned condition? Yes

 

Does deception give a sub par 10 - 54 leveling experience while progressing strictly through PvE comparative to most other classes and specs, including Darkness Assassin? Yes

Does deception suffer from a lack of AOE? Yes

Does deception have sub par sustained damage? Yes

Is the sustained damage worse during the 10 - 54 level up experience than it is in structured raids? Yes

Does the fact that you can't maul agroed NPC's when duplicity procs contribute to this lowered sustained damage? Yes

Does maul hitch a lot and refuse to cast despite being behind the target? yes

Does low slash miss a lot and does this exasperate the sustained damage issue? yes

 

Is spike a sub par opener? Yes

 

The hilarity of it is that Evolixe didn't even read the post. You are agreeing with someone who didn't even get past the first paragraph. This begs the question.. did you get past the first paragraph or did you simply dismiss the entire post like Evolixe did based on the fact that you think its viable in arena's? I have all advanced classes for both factions and a few duplicates to boot. There is no way in hell I would take a deception assassin into an arena when I can bring a marauder, jug or powertech to the table.

Edited November 13, 2013 by JackNader

[ishbindeinvater]

jack, you are not wrong when you follow your own logic, but you forget the knockdwn and interrupt and 70 percent slow, not counting in that you bring out people even more out of concept when they lay on the floor and take a 9k maul

 

when you maul out of stealth people can simply run away, stun you, knockback you, cloak away.

 

when you spike them you have the better control over the follow ups IMO

 

so in pvp terms i think you are wrong. probably you would be right with the opener in a pve boss fight

Edited November 13, 2013 by ishbindeinvater

[monshie]

My post has nothing "wrong" in it. Name one thing where I am incorrect.

 

Here.. let me sumarise my entire post into simple to understand questions. I dare you to refute any of them.

 

Is full deception a regstar pro spec? Yes

regstar pro spec? Not even sure what you are trying to get at here

Do regular warzones facilitate more combat entry and exits than raid and arena? Yes

This is very situational. Sometimes yes, but as I said before I have no problem in arena and they are fixing the raid issues in 2.5(hopefully)

Is the reason that it performs really well in reg warzones but sub par in arenas most notably due to the relationship between electric ambush and the amount of combat exits? Yes

I don't think it preforms sub-par in arenas and I don't think people I group with would say so either.

Does deception revolve around stunlocking the target? Yes

How is that? Spinning kick/Spike only lasts 2 seconds. Low slash is a mez not a stun, while it has good uses it isn't a stun. Our other stun is a hard 4 second one that many other classes have as well. If you think we resolve around stunlocking you are doing it wrong.

Is the reason because there are a lot of bonus damage procs based off of the stunned condition? Yes

The only bonus damage I am aware of from a stunned condition is nerve wracking. 6% bonus while they are stunned. Doesn't seem like that is "a lot".

 

Does deception give a sub par 10 - 54 leveling experience strictly through PvE? Yes

This is a personal opinion. There are some improvements that could be made here, but I had fun with it.

Does deception suffer from a lack of AOE? Yes

Agreed, but hardly what the class was made for.

Does deception have sub par sustained damage? Yes

By a small margin perhaps, but they are addressing that in 2.5.

Is the sustained damage worse during the 10 - 54 level up experience than it is in structured raids? Yes

Does the fact that you can't maul agroed NPC's when duplicity procs contribute to this lowered sustained damage? Yes

This is part of playing a class with a backstab ability. It is working as designed.

Does maul hitch a lot and refuse to cast despite being behind the target? yes

Never have this problem. I can hit maul/shadow strike from a large angle many times pretty much on the mobs side.

Does low slash miss a lot and does this exasperate the sustained damage issue? yes

In PvE you should not be running with no accuracy and low slash isn't part of the sustained damage rotation.

 

Is spike a sub par opener? Yes

Spike is a ability and in no way do you have to open with it. I open up on targets differently depending on the situation. It is an ability in our tool kit and an effective one used properly.

 

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but that is all you have here is opinion. I am entitled to dis-agree and I will leave it at that.

[JackNader]

So despite all the word mincing and hair splitting, you couldn't really refute anything I said. I'll pick out a couple of things you stated just to show that is indeed what you did.

 

 

Do regular warzones facilitate more combat entry and exits than raid and arena? Yes

 

This is very situational. Sometimes yes, but as I said before I have no problem in arena and they are fixing the raid issues in 2.5(hopefully)

 

It was a simple yes or a no question. It is a statistical fact that you enter and exit combat considerably more on average through a regular warzone than you do in an arena match. It is a statistical fact that your electric ambush will reset your recklessess more in a regular warzone than it does in an arena match. Electric ambush is tied to your burst output. If you cannot enter and exit combat freely, you can't burst properly. Arena's are more about sustained damage than they are about opening burst. This is why deception is considered a "sub par" arena spec.

 

Does deception revolve around stunlocking the target? Yes

 

How is that? Spinning kick/Spike only lasts 2 seconds. Low slash is a mez not a stun, while it has good uses it isn't a stun. Our other stun is a hard 4 second one that many other classes have as well. If you think we resolve around stunlocking you are doing it wrong.

 

This is hands down word mincing and hair splitting. You know full well that you are required to spike, electrocute or low slash opponents to maximize your damage output. They all have have direct or indirect damage dealing procs that trigger off of them. . They are used more or less at every opportunity to maximize damage. No other spec in this game gains damage procs off of stuns. Any controlling effect that completely disables an opponent falls into the category of "stun locking" Don't believe me? Chuck the term into google and see how you fair.

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/Stun_lock

 

Deception is the only spec in the game that actively encourages stun locking. All the other specs do not have to stun lock. They can choose to use them or not. Deception is unique in that it is penalized with decreased damage for not using them.

Does deception give a sub par 10 - 54 leveling experience strictly through PvE? Yes

 

This is a personal opinion. There are some improvements that could be made here, but I had fun with it.

 

I will concede your point here. It is indeed my opinion and not really a fair question as it is open for interpretation. I will add though that I have leveled every single class in this game through mainly PvE content. Deception / Madness are the only 2 specs that felt were really poorly designed.

Edited November 13, 2013 by JackNader

[IInox]

The highest burst you can do is maul + duplicity maul... that is what I am looking for when I open. Yes, you could open with discharge then maul. Discharge + maul would yield better damage than maul + discharge but like I said, your locking yourself out of max burst potential. The other drawback to a Discharge + maul is you can potentially bleed 8 force. Regardless, all 3 of those openers are valid and certainly better than spike + maul.

 

why? not I'm talking about NO SPIKE as opener.

 

if u can use maul with +9% crit chance...why use without it? maul is not a sure crit (or doesn't have +60% crit chance ) so it's obv to use discharge before any melee kills.

[monshie]

None of those were simple yes or no questions. Very little in your post is factual and is mainly opinion. I tried to explain where I disagreed with you, but it is clear that you don't agree so, at this point there in no more use debating. We clearly do not see eye to eye. Myself and others have no problems using the spec achieve good results. If you can't perhaps you should try another class.

[JackNader]

why? not I'm talking about NO SPIKE as opener.

 

if u can use maul with +9% crit chance...why use without it? maul is not a sure crit (or doesn't have +60% crit chance ) so it's obv to use discharge before any melee kills.

 

As I stated, statistically speaking you will deal more damage per open on average over a large sample size using discharge first then maul. Your maximum potential burst is higher tho with a maul + duplicity maul. Both are perfectly acceptable openers. Discharge + duplicity maul is better in the longer run.

[IInox]

noo wait...I mean discharge >maul with if force sinergy else >shock > maul

 

I didint write to stack duplicity what I'm writing is it's better to use maul with force sinergy up ..instead to use a "random" maul without any buffs.

 

and I prefer spike

[Evolixe]

As I stated, statistically speaking you will deal more damage per open on average over a large sample size using discharge first then maul. Your maximum potential burst is higher tho with a maul + duplicity maul. Both are perfectly acceptable openers. Discharge + duplicity maul is better in the longer run.

 

You're just gambling with opening like that. If duplicity doesn't proc what are you going to do..

 

Yeah you just wasted a whole lot of force on air.

 

Too risky, not an acceptable opener.

[Atiris]

puhhh

 

where to begin?

 

first, we are a burst class and NEED the burst in every fight we begin, so the design with electric ambush is just fine. Outside of our burst, we dont have much to offer. We can spam auto-attacks and have to take care a lot about our force to have enough for the low-slashes, maul, shock, discharge. We are highly limited by our force pool and the high energy costs of our attacks. We need procs to help with our sustained damage.

 

compare that to what a marauder can do or even a jugg. They have burst and pressure with NO breaks, we have a little more burst and limited pressure with breaks.

 

About your complain about spike and so on. How do YOU begin your fight? how do you get your duplicity proc without spike?! Dont forget, duplicity also procs +30% damage on maul, and spike isnt about the damage, its about the knockdown too, and if specced a 70% slow. And I dont understand your problem with "wasting force". Ok, when you open up with spike+maul you will waste some force. Whats the matter there? You dont always start up with spike+maul, sometimes its just maul or shock, discharge, low slash, maul. You need that fast force regeneration especially if you cloak and re-open or when you hit blackout. Your solution must mean that there should be lower, but longer regeneration? Thats probably just good for an opener but the open sequence is just a small part of a whole fight...

 

probably i just dont get your point here. What is it what you complain about?!

 

I am sorry, my friend, but I disagree with the fact that we do not have good sustain damage. The biggest thing people fail to acknowledge is the fact that Assassins are entirely proc dependent and entirely situational. Compare the amount of utility skills we possess compared to other classes; spike, force stun, low slash, jolt, whirlwind, overload. Combine that with our defensive skills such as force shroud, cloak, blackout, saber shield, sprint, and there are only a few, if any, classes that share the same amount of utility as we do.

 

We have one of the strongest bursts in the game, but even our sustained damage is relatively good. Voltaic Slash can crit for 1.5k - 3k, maul gets duplicity every fifteen seconds and another chance at duplicity on a separate 10 second rate limit through impose weakness. If you time your low slash or spike, you can get two duplicity procs back to back which can lead to devastating results. Combine that with the fact that you can follow it with a reduced 50% shock and you're keeping some much needed pressure on your opponents.

 

However, this is just assuming your target is standing still like a dummy, which we know he is not. Combine these procs with your offensive and defensive utility skills and you can pretty much lockdown your opponent unless you do not get procs when you need them, someone else comes and interferes, or you're fighting enemies wearing heavy armor.

 

Since my return, I hardly experienced any issues with my sustain damage or my ability to 1v1 or even 1v2 people at times. I can add the pressure when i need to, get away when I need to and burst when I need to. It's all situational. I just need to think like an Assassin and play like an Assassin.