Sorcerer Changes Brainstorming

[Laforet]

I will just leave this here for further reflection.

 

If dps sorcs were designed as warriors are, force lift would be ininterruptible, force wave would stun people for 3 seconds, thundering blast would root people in place for 3 seconds, stacks of conduction would make force speed go out of cd faster, dark heal would be instant and we would be able to keep casting inside force barrier.

 

Brainstorm my ***, fix your melee bioware.

 

Now.

[AdrianDmitruk]

I will just leave this here for further reflection.

 

If dps sorcs were designed as warriors are, force lift would be ininterruptible, force wave would stun people for 3 seconds, thundering blast would root people in place for 3 seconds, stacks of conduction would make force speed go out of cd faster, dark heal would be instant and we would be able to keep casting inside force barrier.

 

Brainstorm my ***, fix your melee bioware.

 

Now.

 

We'd be able to move inside Force Barrier, too.

 

Force Lift wouldn't just be uninterruptable, it'd be instant in all 3 specs.

 

We'd have a blink to a friendly target (what do you think Intercede is?) so we could get back to the backline quickly, or if we got pushed away from our tank we could get back under his protection immediately..

 

And I'm sure there's much more...

[psybernetic]

I don't remember where this got posted, but someone brought up the idea of a 15m knockback on TB. I figured it needed mentioning again, as it would greatly help Lightning's gap creation. Marksman gets one on Ambush rather low in the tree.

 

Honestly, TB is a lackluster top-tier talent. Its base damage is weak, and while the autocrit is nice, it's still not all that great damage on most targets. No one should expect god-mode abilities on any class, but when you dedicate the majority of your talents to a tree, there should be some sort of reward. While I don't have hard data to back it up, the burst on a proc FL + CL feels much higher than TB, and most certainly is when they crit. I regularly see huge numbers on CL crits that make TB look like a wet sponge, well into the 8k range, even with armor reduction.

 

We've said it before, and we'll say it again: we're glass cannons without the cannon. Our "suvivability" through our heals is insignificant vs melee because in the gcd it takes to cast a bubble or UP, we've netted a loss in our health. Would it be wrong to suggest that dps sorcs wouldn't mind having our heals be out-of-combat-only in exchange for better control and damage options? I don't think so, because we'd be Corruption of we wanted to heal.

 

On a less-whiny note, a change to Static Barrier: enemies who attack a sorc when it's up take small energy (kinetic for sages) damage and are snared for 2-3 seconds. That would help tremendously for Corruption and Madness, as well as make it less undesirable to have another sorc's bubble on you as Lightning. Melee classes are too strong as-is and we need some means of dealing with them.

[BlissDivine]

I have a dps Mercenary (Araenal skill tree) which is kinda like a Sorcerer play style-wise. On my Mercenary Power Surge makes it so the two heals with activation time become instant and can be used on the move. Plus Hdraulic Overrides gives you 10 seconds of immunity from movement-impairing effects. I find it way easier to get out of melee range and heal myself on my mercenary than my sorcerer.

 

Sorcerers need some kind of way to have instant heals (besides just the one) and immunity from slows.

[Styrakhon]

Health leech is a good I idea. I really was surprised when I started my sorcerer and noted that I has real healing spells. I mean... fluff... Dark Side of the Force and healing others? Come on.

 

I think this would be hard to code, but it would really be nice do have a skill that drains life from your enemies. And you could transfer this stolen life to others.

 

The existing skills... I feel Dark Infusion has a too long cast time. In really rough fights, my tank looses more health during the cast time than Dark Infusions gives him back. 2 Seconds would be OK.

 

And Thundering Blast could use an increase in damage. For a top tier talent it is too weak, compared to Chain Lightning or even Force Lightning with some points in Madness. Or maybe leave the damage as it is and make TB give an debuff to the enemy, comparable to Deathmark from the Madness tree.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Styrakhon

[Daex]

Hello!

 

My ideas are mostly for PvP, but could also benefit in PvE.

 

REMEMBER:

Every second counts!

 

 

IMPORTANT:

Problem: Jumping Slows people down.

Solution: Make it faster (We will see why is this so much important).

 

 

GENERAL PROBLEMS: Mobility, Survivability

Solution: Give Fadeout and Lightning Barrier 5% more increase in absorbtion to Static Barrier to Sorcerers by default.

 

 

Corruption

 

1.

Problem: Force Barrier. Also known as - Self Stun.

 

Explanation/Experience:

The idea was good, but the final result is bad.

It is really a pure luck to get the maximum out of a '3-minute cooldown' spell.

If we look from a PvP perspective, Rated Warzones are long time gone and we need to find a way to get Sorcerers back into Arenas.

In Arenas, Force Barrier has no place. It is not an escape tool. It is a self-stun 10 seconds long, that will never be used to its maximum potential.

It is like a painkiller, standing there to be taken, but after the third second you regret because it only made things worse. Nothing good happens.

To use the maximum out of Barrier, you would have to stay inside it for 10 seconds and, like that, exclude yourself from the fight.

The damage is too high for a healer to stay out of combat for 10 second when in 2, they can deal more damage that you would simply not be able to out heal later.

Majority will be force to break it after the 4th or 5th second, placing the spell on a 3 minute long cooldown. That is the flaw.

 

Suggestion:

Think about something else.

Option one: Make the Barrier last 3 seconds (4 seconds when specced into Corruption) on a 1.30/2 minute cooldown (Juggernauts Reflection lasts 3-5 seconds, on one minute cooldown). Allow us to move during that period but not be able to use abilities.

Option two: Instead of Force Barrier, give us a damage reduction cooldown or a shield - such as Mercenaries have.

 

 

2.

Problem: Slow animations. (all specs)

Solution: Simple! Make animations play a little bit faster. Static Barrier is amazing, but the animation is way to slow for something so important.

After that we have Force Storm. If you do not believe me, place the circle on the ground, press the storm and move the character. The animation will play, damage

will not hit. The time between the animation and execution is a little bit over the top.

 

 

 

3.

Problem: Overload (all specs)

Explanation/Experience:

I know some people simply "love" the new Overload. However, I do not.

For a class that is constantly running away and being chased, Overload slows you down. Now, before I get bombed by people, let me explain.

Jumping in Star Wars makes you slower. The real use of Overload in PvP would be:

 

The Plan:

1. Run Forward

2. Turn fast by jumping (holding both mouse buttons)

3. Press Overload

 

The Reality:

1. Run Forward

2. Turn Fast by jumping (holding both mouse buttons) -> you jumped and got slowed by your own jump

3. Press Overload: Since you jumped and slowed yourself down, the target is now even closer to you. If you managed to hit the target with this cone AoE (you can actually fail thanks to lag, lets not pretend)

the same target will not be kicked FAR enough for you to benefit.

 

The only benefit from overload comes if you have already positioned yourself for a leaping/moving target. THEN, if the target was in 15 meters radius, it will be knocked back and therefore (around) 18 meter further.

However, in a PvP it is not all so easily predictable...

 

Now, I do not want to come out evil, but...giving to a kiting class frontal, cone knockback, in a game with so much lag (and YOU KNOW IT) is simply silly. Sorry.

When I heard about overload change, I was all happy. But, please...you know it, I know it, we all know it.

 

Solution:

Option one: Give the old overload back.

Option two: Rework the current overload. Make it 100% frontal Knockback but reduce the radius from 15 meters to 10 meters.

Option three: Make jumping faster and you do not have to work on Overload at all. This would be much easier .

 

 

 

4.

Problem: Force Surge/Consumption

Explanation/Example:

Sucking health doesn't belong in arenas but I like it in PvE. Therefore, I came to an idea!!!

Might be a little complicated but hear me out first, think about it, then judge.

Everybody knows how Force Surge works. Every time your Innervate crits, you get one stack of Force Surge. Now, you can use those stacks for faster AoE heal cast or to degenerate your health to regenerate your Force without degenerating it. Hmph.

 

Now, I got an idea.

What if Force Surge would give more options, such as:

 

Solution:

Every time your Innervate crits, you get one Stack of Force Surge that:

a) By pressing new icon (that would pop on your screen) you will get rid all 3 stacks AT ONCE. It would suck your health and get the Force back. Now, this would be cool in

PvE for Faster healing. Call it: a nice feature.

b) And now, the most important: DARK INFUSION activates 33% faster per charge. The heal, that you can never really cast in Arena, would now be used!

With this change you would have more options. It would add some new nice rotations. I know the a) one is not something so amazing, but I think it would

make healing faster. For now, Sorcerer just feels way too slow in everything. At least for me. I would go that far and give the instant critical on Dark Infusion with 3 charges.

 

 

You would have 2 new options and 4 in total.

Place this talent instead of Fadeout if must. Give Fadeout to Sorcerers by default.

 

5.

Problem: Survivability

Solution: It might help to give us 15% absorbtion back on Lightning Barrier. Not sure why it got nerfed. And this would benefit all 3 specs!

Also, as I said, changing Force Barrier into some defensive cooldown would benefit us, as well.

 

6.

Problem: Force

Solution: The only Free Heal Sorcerer has is a Self-Heal. Maybe being able to cast Unnatural Preservation on other players could help us with Force.

I am not really sure about this Solution. Other healing classes have a way to increase the energy/decrease the heat, but destroying yourself to get the Force back in PvP has no place. Not in Arenas.

 

7.

Problem: Thrash

Explanation/Experience: We have no use of it. Everybody who plays the game, no matter is it PvP, PvE or RP, would like to see this ability have some use.

Reworking the Thrash would be amazing.

 

Solution: Make Thrash for Sorcerers to work a little different than for Assassins. Let us use it and benefit by using it: trigger the defensive shield or give us the Armor buff increase by every charge it crits. Stacks 3 times.

Maybe throwing the saber could proc some defensive shield.

 

I am here talking from PvP, PvE and even RP perspective, because it would be nice for Sorcerers to use a saber !

 

8.

Problem: AoE Heal (in Arenas)

Explanation/Experience:

AoE heal is meant to heal 8 players and use Force predictable only for healing 8 players. In Arenas, you can only heal 4 but it is still using the same amount of Force and healing for same amount.

Solution: Adjust AoE heal in Arenas for 4 man healing.

 

 

We have so many abilities that never get use to its maximum potential.

These changes could also be really good for Lightning and Madness. I would add a little more for those two, such as:

 

Lightning:

 

1. Problem: Movement

Solution: Fadeout. Give Fadeut to Sorcerers by default. Change Corruption's Fadeout for 4.b) . < - - - already said this

 

2. Problem: Animations

Solution: It can get a little buggy when you get the proc on your Lightning Sorcerer. I am talking about Chain Lightning. Again, too slow. It looks like the character really < - -- already said this

got confused, chained itself and has no idea what to cast next Work on it a little bit. It would make it more fun.

 

3. Problem Survivability

Solution: It might help to give us 15% absorbtion on Lightning Barrier. Not sure why it got nerfed. And this would benefit all 3 specs! < - - - already said this

 

In general, Lightning has really nice damage but you will get shot down really, really easy. If you could rework Force Barrier, Thrash, Overload it would be much easier. There is no need for a new-awesome-uber ability that will fill our, already full, bar and not be useful at all.

Fix the existing ones.

 

 

 

 

Madness:

 

I know you said only Corruption and Lightning should be explained but Madness could use a little help. Would benefit with Fadeout and Lightning Barrier 5% more increase but not too much.

 

1.

Problem: Force Issue

 

Solution:

It is simple really. Rework the current talents and give them more percentage on Force restoration.

 

 

 

My plan would not be to make this class overpowered. Sorcerer players need to play alone just like in a group. Think about it. Also, I am not saying ALL of these should be added.

 

 

If you are still standing by your "takes more skill to play a Sorcerer", then please, add a note next to every class with difficulty, so people know what to play. In my opinion, it takes no REAL skill. There is nothing amazing you can do on a Sorcerer.

It is simple, predictable. And that is a problem: "If I interrupt this, then he/she/it will do that". Make rotations more complex if must. Give us more options by reworking the current spells so we can use them to their FULL potential without relying on lag, luck and skill of our enemies.

 

 

My opinion.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Daex
typed Curroption instead of Consuption

[verfallen]

An idea I got while talking with a guildy on a totally unrelated topic: it would be nice if they did something with recklessness, especially reguarding FL(eat one charge automatically, with the 30m range benefit being void for sorc) and TB.

 

Ex for TB, something similar to how sintanks autocrit on shock sinergize with Recklessness, that would give that "oomph" boost on demand. And even if you go for double crit damage (240%) that would effectively make it the hardest hitting ability in game...once a minute and a half.

 

For FL, passive talent at level 10 similar to how jugs modify Saber Ward with blade turning that cause a FL taking a charge of recklessness to either cause 10% or so more damage, or ignore a part of the armor, and a talent in madness buffing that ability ( either adding the one that wasn't taken between extra damage or AP, or increase that value).

[Ycoga]

I don't remember where this got posted, but someone brought up the idea of a 15m knockback on TB. I figured it needed mentioning again, as it would greatly help Lightning's gap creation. Marksman gets one on Ambush rather low in the tree.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6897747&postcount=39

 

15m is, I think, too OP. A couple metres is better, as it's enough to create a gap between the caster and a melee opponent. A root-immune Force Speed could then be used to escape.

[Stib_]

...

 

6.

Problem: Force

Solution: The only Free Heal Sorcerer has is a Self-Heal. Maybe being able to cast Extrication on other players could help us with Force.

I am not really sure about this Solution. Other healing classes have a way to increase the energy/decrease the heat, but destroying yourself to get the Force back in PvP has no place. Not in Arenas.

 

...

 

I just want to help! Are you sure you wanted to write Extrication and not Unnatural Preservation?

[Ciry]

In PvP, especially ranked PvP, Dark Infusion is not even worth the key bind space. I have never ever never cast a Dark Infusion in a Ranked match. All casting that is gonna do is get you interuppted. You could either do something to improve that ability, like cut it's cast time in half to make it viable or - talking about PvP - just scrap it and replace it with something else.

 

~Siera

[Ciry]

Hello!

 

Corruption

 

1.

Problem: Force Barrier. Also known as - Self Stun.

Increased rate of self healing while it's up would be nice but other than that, fine as is. You need to know when to use it and how long to stay in it. If your in it for more than 4 seconds your doing something wrong.

 

3.

Problem: Overload (all specs)

 

Do not mess with my overload. Perfect as is.

 

4.

Problem: Force Surge/Corruption

 

If you don't think this belongs in arenas your are, respectfully, out of your.....

 

5.

Problem: Survivability

Talk to mercs about survivability.

 

6.

Problem: Force

Fine as is if you know how to manage it.

 

7.

Problem: Thrash

Why did you list this under Corruption?

 

8.

Problem: AoE Heal (in Arenas)

See Force Surge

 

 

 

Bad ideas for corruption. IMO.

 

~Siera

Edited November 14, 2013 by Ciry

[Xeraz]

In PvP, especially ranked PvP, Dark Infusion is not even worth the key bind space. I have never ever never cast a Dark Infusion in a Ranked match. All casting that is gonna do is get you interuppted. You could either do something to improve that ability, like cut it's cast time in half to make it viable or - talking about PvP - just scrap it and replace it with something else.

 

~Siera

 

I've used Dark Infusion before but only near the end of a match when we have them like 2v1 and I am low on force. It allows me to heal my ally at low force.

 

Generally though, Dispels/Bubble/Dark Heal, are the off healing we will be providing.

[Ciry]

I've used Dark Infusion before but only near the end of a match when we have them like 2v1 and I am low on force. It allows me to heal my ally at low force.

 

Generally though, Dispels/Bubble/Dark Heal, are the off healing we will be providing.

 

I am talking about as a healer not off heals. I will never cast Dark Infusion. It is suppose to be our big single target heal but in PvP and especially ranked it is worthless.

[Xeraz]

I am talking about as a healer not off heals. I will never cast Dark Infusion. It is suppose to be our big single target heal but in PvP and especially ranked it is worthless.

 

As an actual healer I'd use it every now and then. I'd use it more than Dark Heal, that's for sure. It was a common part of my "rotation" to Force Sprint into los and cast Dark Infusion.

 

Also, when available, I would use Polarity Shift+Recklessness into one/two Dark Infusions.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Xeraz

[AdmiralParmesan]

Can we get an actually useful 4 set force master/force mystic bonus for pvp?

 

yeah that would be great

[psybernetic]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6897747&postcount=39

 

15m is, I think, too OP. A couple metres is better, as it's enough to create a gap between the caster and a melee opponent. A root-immune Force Speed could then be used to escape.

 

2m isn't far enough, as that's still well within melee range, and anything within 10m will keep a smasher within range of both smash and obliterate.

[Xeraz]

Can we get an actually useful 4 set force master/force mystic bonus for pvp?

 

yeah that would be great

 

Srly, I use the 2-piece bonus from our healing set.

[Daex]

bad ideas for corruption. Imo.

 

 

 

1.

Problem: Force barrier. Also known as - self stun.

 

Increased rate of self healing while it's up would be nice but other than that, fine as is. You need to know when to use it and how long to stay in it. If your in it for more than 4 seconds your doing something wrong.

 

- because you do not see the flaw of the ability, or acting like it. However, if you can manage to stay for 10 seconds under the barrier, good for you. I yet need to see a sorcerer being parked there for 10 seconds (unless there is one more healer). You said it yourself "how long to stay in it".

 

3.

Problem: Overload (all specs)

 

 

do not mess with my overload. Perfect as is.

 

- as i said...

 

4.

Problem: Force surge/corruption

 

if you don't think this belongs in arenas your are, respectfully, out of your.....

 

- correct. I spelled corruption instead of consumption. Fixed. Not sure what the hell happened there.

 

5.

Problem: Survivability

talk to mercs about survivability.

 

-you can also talk to operative about it, as long as i care. Go to their subforum and try to contribute.

 

6.

Problem: Force

fine as is if you know how to manage it.

 

- no. It if fine if opposing team is brain-dead.

 

7.

Problem: Thrash

why did you list this under corruption?

 

-corruption belongs to sorcerers as well.

 

8.

Problem: Aoe heal (in arenas)

see force surge

-read the problem.

 

~siera

 

123456

Edited November 15, 2013 by Daex

[Daex]

I just want to help! Are you sure you wanted to write Extrication and not Unnatural Preservation?

 

Smart. Thank you for that. I remember wanting to say something about support and was thinking about it !

[Sythe]

Here is my opionion as a skilled balance pvp sage. Figured I'd post here because theres a lot more discussion.

 

This dot change is a nerf to skilled sages plain and simple, our damage isn't the issue here our survivability is. Healers just cant keep us up like other classes when we're focused and locked down by skilled players (which would be fine if our squishyness was supplemented with superior damage or cc but that isnt the case). We dont need fancy new abilities we need either one of two things to give our healers a fighting chance in keeping us alive. Increased base damage mitigation by a significant amount, or a root break for our sprint(or some other survivability mechanic, I like the idea of changing sprint into a blink like others have suggested).

 

We also need a serious change to force barrier. Our class already gets its damage reduced enough when we are targeted due to us having to immediately start kiting because of our squishyness. How is giving us a defensive ability that completely shuts down our damage on top of that a good idea? It needs to be overhauled to either heal us, bubble burst and cc after breaking it, or allow us to move around while its active.

 

Like everyones saying sages do have a much higher skill cap but equally skilled players using other classes still have a huge advantage over us. Oh and come on bioware.. that thing about healing to full is rediculous, its not efficient at all to heal yourself especially as a balance sage which runs out of force within a minute of fighting if not faster. Dps sage heals shouldnt play a factor at all in you balancing our class.

 

specifically for Seer and Telekinetics.

I just noticed this part in erics post. While I do agree heals and tk are in a worse spot than madness it doesnt change the fact that madness is very sub par relative to other classes aswell. Hopefully it doesnt get overshadowed.

[FrumpytheClown]

Another suggestion:

Force Lightning is also an direct interrupt for the Madness tree. While an opponent is being attacked by Force Lightning, they are incapable of using ANY channeled abilities. There are many ways to counter this. However it makes perfect sense. It is FREAKING LIGHTNING! Casting interrupts will stop us from using this abilities, we can be shut down easily, so why not make us a huge threat to healers. It is also a Madness talent only.

[OldSpiceSwag]

Bad ideas for corruption. IMO.

 

~Siera

 

lol you are stupid

Edited November 16, 2013 by OldSpiceSwag

[fungihoujo]

We've been giving great examples of things that could be done for this class for a year and a half, I've little faith anything will be done now.

 

The biggest thing that could be done is fixing the resolve system, and adding roots to resolve- getting a white bar, only to get locked up for the entire bar by a marauder simply means death as a sorc. We need better mobility, and the insane amount of CC in this game makes that impossible.

 

If not that- at least make fadeout a class ability. Overload being aoe rather than a cone.

[Chemic_al]

We've been giving great examples of things that could be done for this class for a year and a half, I've little faith anything will be done now.

 

The biggest thing that could be done is fixing the resolve system, and adding roots to resolve- getting a white bar, only to get locked up for the entire bar by a marauder simply means death as a sorc. We need better mobility, and the insane amount of CC in this game makes that impossible.

 

If not that- at least make fadeout a class ability. Overload being aoe rather than a cone.

 

I still want shroud for sorcs, even if we got all that. We need a proper defensive.

[ossssori]

They should fix barrier so that we can use emotes while we are channeling it.

 

It is so unfair that the enemies always points and laughs at us while we do it, and we can't do anything about it.