Getting focused in arena. Nothing i can do (medic)

[SWEtree]

I dont think im that bad. I ofc have put a point in my shield (skill tree) to avoid interupts. But i feel i just get so damn stomped from shutdowns. One interupt and im like semiafk for 5 seconds. I ofc use elctro net and hold the line + stim but still dont stand a bloody chance.

Im doing something wrong or commando healers are just pathetic in fair teamfights?

Edited October 5, 2013 by SWEtree

[Sangrar]

I dont think im that bad. I ofc have put a point in my shield (skill tree) to avoid interupts. But i feel i just get so damn stomped from shutdowns. One interupt and im like semiafk for 5 seconds. I ofc use elctro net and hold the line + stim but still dont stand a bloody chance.

Im doing something wrong or commando healers are just pathetic in fair teamfights?

 

I had to get used to arenas myself. You see while other healers are more mobile, commando heals is more dependent on casts and on staying in one place. This is good for a regular warzone when fighting on a node, but not in a death match. As it is any good team goes for the enemy heals and focuses them, which happened to you. Being a more stationary healer in that kind of situation is by no means easy. It took me some practice to get down but the main thing is to not let yourself get rooted, keep moving, let your team go ahead of you while you try to hang back. Use your pushbacks and electonet on warriors and assassins. Put a trauma probe on one of your teammates. Heal yourself using the instant heals bacta infusion and kolto bomb while running away. Also warzone medpacs are your friend. Bring lots of them. Warzone adrenals don't hurt either. And most importantly, KEEP MOVING. Use advanced medical probe move. Go behind a wall or something where you can see your team and the enemy team has to run over to get you. To be successful healer in an arena you got to keep moving at all times and use the environment to your advantage. And if you see you are about to die quickly drop some last heals to your teammates. I am not going to lie, it won't be at all easy, but if you are at the least able to heal your team for at least 90k in an arena during a round you have done well.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Sangrar

[BoskiCesiu]

I dont think im that bad. I ofc have put a point in my shield (skill tree) to avoid interupts. But i feel i just get so damn stomped from shutdowns. One interupt and im like semiafk for 5 seconds. I ofc use elctro net and hold the line + stim but still dont stand a bloody chance.

Im doing something wrong or commando healers are just pathetic in fair teamfights?

 

No, You dont.

 

I play commando healer 2 years and i know how hard he is to play on WZ. Always first target by smashes, without the other supporting healer, commando is killed like a chicken - few sec and death. Thats in 8x8 random WZ.

4x4 WZ are not for commando. I try to play but always the same - target and death in few sec.

Anyway, commando need to totally rebalanced - he need to more defense and higher heal rotation, needs more resistance for roots, stuns and interrupts to be a worthy opponent for the smashes or they needs to be nerfed.

Now is unplayable foe 4x4 WZ.

I have all 3 healers and only scoundrel is ok.

Edited October 10, 2013 by BoskiCesiu

[Sangrar]

No, You dont.

 

I play commando healer 2 years and i know how hard he is to play on WZ. Always first target by smashes, without the other supporting healer, commando is killed like a chicken - few sec and death. Thats in 8x8 random WZ.

4x4 WZ are not for commando. I try to play but always the same - target and death in few sec.

Anyway, commando need to totally rebalanced - he need to more defense and higher heal rotation, needs more resistance for roots, stuns and interrupts to be a worthy opponent for the smashes or they needs to be nerfed.

Now is unplayable foe 4x4 WZ.

I have all 3 healers and only scoundrel is ok.

 

Yeah its not easy but I do survive at least long enough for my team to be able to take out one or two members of the opposing team, mainly their healer, but it took me a lot of practice and gear. Also to fight slows and roots use field aid it doesn't do much but its something that is useful.

As for an 8v8 I find that we are good for holding a node, alone we are as you said, killed like a chicken, but around other players fighting to hold a turret for example, hang back at a point where you can heal everyone and keep moving. I exceeded 500k heals in a voidstar doing that, hanging back while other players attacked and fought while I healed them from a distance and made a bunch of medals doing it, and moving around a lot. When I see a warrior too I quickly target him and use electronet before he has the chance to leap to me, even if he does the leap I use my pushback and I am safely out of his melee abilities range while I run and stun.

Again, it took me a lot of time to get down and its not perfect, but I like to think one day Bioware will fix us, and the trials we face right now and how we adapt to them will make us stronger in the end, honing us into great healers, so that glorious day we will be the ones wanted for arenas and warzones, unlike now where they always specify scoundrel healer when making a premade

Edited October 6, 2013 by Sangrar

[SWEtree]

Well ive lost 9 games in a row now. There NOTHING i can do. I get 3+ ppl on me. fight starts with a CC wich i break,pop shield + hold the line and then i get stunned again and its game over. Over and over again. Any tips how to survive more than those 4 seconds?

[benovide]

After three years, I'm going to let you guys in on a secret about the Mercenary/Commando healers.

 

They are garbage medics, and only have the trees because some guy sitting at a desk could not think of a dang thing else to put into the game instead. I have two Mercs now, one is pyrotech, the other is arsenal. I got rid of any/all notions of using heals beyond saving credits from having to buy medpacs.

 

In PVE, and PvP, it has always been a roughly useless class as a Medic/Healer.

[Lalainnia]

Nope nothing you can do, anything a mando can do a scoundrel can do it better or with far less effort. And we only beat sorcs with our heavy armor and defensive cds otherwise they also destroy us in healing. Wait until 2.5 to see if they bother buffing us, continue playing your mando or reroll.

[SWEtree]

Im gonna keep on playing it,praying they get more arena -friendly. Now ive stoped joining arena because it feels abit selfish when we usually loose because i fail.

Ive started to spend alot more tme on my guardian-alt now. Thats a shame.

Edited October 8, 2013 by SWEtree

[Suryi]

Not trying is certainly not going to make you any better, it would only take away the stress of playing a harder class. Continuing to play and improve is something that is solely up to you and your willingness to invest time and effort.

 

What you haven't mentioned is if it's in Solo Queue or Group Play, because the two vary wildly. In solo queue you're at the mercy of your team mates; if they don't do enough pressure, the enemy team doesn't have to worry about dying and can focus on making your life miserable, if they do not peel enough for you you will be spending the entire game on the backfoot trying desperately to top everyone up and buckling under neverending pressure, if they aren't coordinated enough to secure a kill with the help of net and ccs from you then you'll be fighting an uphill battle because in long fights we'll more often then not fall short, if you don't have a tank then well... lol.

 

On your own part, there's a million things you could potentially be doing wrong; are you using kolto bomb on cooldown, do you kite at the right time, do you knockback at the right time, do you cc their dps at the right time, do you line of sight at the right time, do you sit in the right place, are you managing your defensive cooldowns properly, are you helping the dps when the context allows it, are you playing in a good spec or with good gear, are you playing your class in an optimal way, etc?

 

The best advice I could give is don't give up, find 3 good people to get better with and always be aware that in every game there is most likely something that you could've done better; if at the end of the match you think to yourself "I did this thing better then last time and I didn't do that other thing as good, I should do it better" then you're improving.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Suryi

[SWEtree]

Not trying is certainly not going to make you any better, it would only take away the stress of playing a harder class. Continuing to play and improve is something that is solely up to you and your willingness to invest time and effort.

 

What you haven't mentioned is if it's in Solo Queue or Group Play, because the two vary wildly. In solo queue you're at the mercy of your team mates; if they don't do enough pressure, the enemy team doesn't have to worry about dying and can focus on making your life miserable, if they do not peel enough for you you will be spending the entire game on the backfoot trying desperately to top everyone up and buckling under neverending pressure, if they aren't coordinated enough to secure a kill with the help of net and ccs from you then you'll be fighting an uphill battle because in long fights we'll more often then not fall short, if you don't have a tank then well... lol.

 

On your own part, there's a million things you could potentially be doing wrong; are you using kolto bomb on cooldown, do you kite at the right time, do you knockback at the right time, do you cc their dps at the right time, do you line of sight at the right time, do you sit in the right place, are you managing your defensive cooldowns properly, are you helping the dps when the context allows it, are you playing in a good spec or with good gear, are you playing your class in an optimal way, etc?

 

The best advice I could give is don't give up, find 3 good people to get better with and always be aware that in every game there is most likely something that you could've done better; if at the end of the match you think to yourself "I did this thing better then last time and I didn't do that other thing as good, I should do it better" then you're improving.

 

 

This was very helpfull. Even if i have played the class for a long time i cant compare arena with normal WZs and some random OPvP. Its a new system and new strategies.

(I queue solo ranked) and only done 25 games.

[Suryi]

(I queue solo ranked)

 

There's the issue If you want to truly enjoy arenas, NEVER solo queue, unless you're comm farming. You'd feel a lot better about your combat medic if you had 3 competent people that can react to what the 4 enemies are/could be doing to you. Plus it's much more fun to get better as a team; get in a guild and start playing.

[klham]

There's the issue If you want to truly enjoy arenas, NEVER solo queue, unless you're comm farming. You'd feel a lot better about your combat medic if you had 3 competent people that can react to what the 4 enemies are/could be doing to you. Plus it's much more fun to get better as a team; get in a guild and start playing.

 

Team support improves commando/merc performance regardless of spec, but especially heals. We're unable to perform our team healing function when under any kind of pressure (unlike Op healers, who can continue evading and LoSing while refreshing HoTs on team mates and self etc.). A commando/merc has to either run out of range and hope he's not pursued or simply stand there self-healing until help arrives. And when we do either of those things, we're not healing anyone else. The best way to neutralize a Combat Medic is to put a melee dps on him - you don't even have to kill him, just keep him focused on his own survival because the spec isn't designed to multi-task under pressure the way the other heal specs/classes are.

Edited October 10, 2013 by klham

[Fellow-Canadian]

Combat medics are not meant for arenas. An immobile healer that does not function under pressure is a liability.

 

Part of the problem we are so susceptible and disproportionately hurt by interrupts when compared to other healers. Ya, you could pop your reactive shield for interrupt immunity but then they need only to cc you for that and you are completely shut down for great lengths of time.

 

We also use op/scoundrel healers as the healing benchmark class because they are so good. We can't compete with what they bring to the arena.

 

Combat medics need a balance change yes, but op/scoundrels need to be nerfed a bit too. It's better to nerf them to be in line with sage/commando healers than to buff the 2 classes to the level of op/scoundrels.

[Suryi]

Team support improves commando/merc performance regardless of spec, but especially heals. We're unable to perform our team healing function when under any kind of pressure (unlike Op healers, who can continue evading and LoSing while refreshing HoTs on team mates and self etc.). A commando/merc has to either run out of range and hope he's not pursued or simply stand there self-healing until help arrives. And when we do either of those things, we're not healing anyone else. The best way to neutralize a Combat Medic is to put a melee dps on him - you don't even have to kill him, just keep him focused on his own survival because the spec isn't designed to multi-task under pressure the way the other heal specs/classes are.

 

No. 1 melee dps will not do much to keep us neutralized. Keep you busy, sure, but neutralized is an overstatement. There's ways to handle 1; you can fakecast, you can kb at the right time/in the right place, you can kite via htl and kolto bomb or any other slow i.e. riot gas or freezing force, you can stun to stop certain burst rotations such as gore/precision slash, you can cc. If you're guarded, the damage he'll do will be completely manageable. Not to mention he's not gonna sit on you in a void, you have peels from your teammates. More issues come with 2 on you, then you really need the undivided attention (or something close to that) of your tank and the occasional peels from your other 2 teammates. I completely do not agree with your statement that we can't handle multi-task pressure. Pressure doesn't happen in a void where it just keeps building up, there's pressure relievers like cc or defensive cds that give you breathing room to top ppl up, you just have to learn to spot them and utilize them as best as you can.

 

Combat medics are not meant for arenas. An immobile healer that does not function under pressure is a liability.

 

Part of the problem we are so susceptible and disproportionately hurt by interrupts when compared to other healers. Ya, you could pop your reactive shield for interrupt immunity but then they need only to cc you for that and you are completely shut down for great lengths of time.

 

We're not immobile. We have limited mobility but we're not immobile, no healer is. And we fall behind under pressure but that doesn't mean we don't function, that means we need more pressure relieving moments.

 

And you can always fakecast at least 1 of your spells if you have 2 interrupters on you.

 

People are so used to the mentality that we don't work that they don't invest many resources into figuring out how to make it work. I assure you, it can work. You have to put more effort into it then any scoundrel ever had to, but it is viable.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Suryi

[Fellow-Canadian]

We're not immobile. We have limited mobility but we're not immobile, no healer is. And we fall behind under pressure but that doesn't mean we don't function, that means we need more pressure relieving moments.

 

And you can always fakecast at least 1 of your spells if you have 2 interrupters on you.

 

People are so used to the mentality that we don't work that they don't invest many resources into figuring out how to make it work. I assure you, it can work. You have to put more effort into it then any scoundrel ever had to, but it is viable.

 

I consider myself an amazing commando healer. I use all the tricks like kiting, fake casting, CC, and etc, but at the end of the day I accept that commando healers have extreme vulnerabilities. It's these extremes I am discussing.

 

If you want to talk about semantics, you can call the class a limited mobility healer. However, the point in calling the class immobile stems from the fact that the most effective HPS comes from remaining stationary. The mechanics of the class support this style of play.

 

Of course the class has instant abilities to use while on the move, but the weakness here is they all have cooldowns. Eventually you will need to stop and chain cast a bunch of heals.

[Suryi]

I consider myself an amazing commando healer. I use all the tricks like kiting, fake casting, CC, and etc, but at the end of the day I accept that commando healers have extreme vulnerabilities. It's these extremes I am discussing.

 

If you want to talk about semantics, you can call the class a limited mobility healer. However, the point in calling the class immobile stems from the fact that the most effective HPS comes from remaining stationary. The mechanics of the class support this style of play.

 

Of course the class has instant abilities to use while on the move, but the weakness here is they all have cooldowns. Eventually you will need to stop and chain cast a bunch of heals.

 

I agree with these points. Your initial post stated that you believe combat medic is not meant for arena, which is the point that I strongly disagree with. The vulnerabilities you state can be compensated. You mention that we eventually have to stop and chain a bunch of heals; stopping and doing so at the right time will compensate for that and when I say at the right time I mean during a cc on the enemies or at least on the enemy that's bothering you the most and/or doing the most damage. This is highly abstract but I hope my point is clear.

 

This is not theoretical, these are things that I'm aware of and try to improve as I play ranked with people that I consider to be decent players and amazing guys because they don't mind that I'm a combat medic i.e. not a scoundrel. We've had great results meaning we've won FAR more then we've lost, gaining about 800 rating in the process. Just saying this so people don't assume I'm making up scenarios with each argument I make.

[Fellow-Canadian]

I don't think anyone could say a commando healer is incapable of achieving great things in arenas. However, I still maintain that they are not an effective arena healer. I'm not one to knit pick contexts or circumstances, but the fact I look at is this: You can shut down a commando healer's effective healing output more easily than a scoundrel/op healer.

[SWEtree]

Good views from both sides. I appreciate this. If someone can post a arena video with a medic that would be great.

All help is welcome.

[Uggen]

No. 1 melee dps will not do much to keep us neutralized. Keep you busy, sure, but neutralized is an overstatement. There's ways to handle 1; you can fakecast, you can kb at the right time/in the right place, you can kite via htl and kolto bomb or any other slow i.e. riot gas or freezing force, you can stun to stop certain burst rotations such as gore/precision slash, you can cc. If you're guarded, the damage he'll do will be completely manageable. Not to mention he's not gonna sit on you in a void, you have peels from your teammates. More issues come with 2 on you, then you really need the undivided attention (or something close to that) of your tank and the occasional peels from your other 2 teammates. I completely do not agree with your statement that we can't handle multi-task pressure. Pressure doesn't happen in a void where it just keeps building up, there's pressure relievers like cc or defensive cds that give you breathing room to top ppl up, you just have to learn to spot them and utilize them as best as you can.

 

 

 

We're not immobile. We have limited mobility but we're not immobile, no healer is. And we fall behind under pressure but that doesn't mean we don't function, that means we need more pressure relieving moments.

 

And you can always fakecast at least 1 of your spells if you have 2 interrupters on you.

 

People are so used to the mentality that we don't work that they don't invest many resources into figuring out how to make it work. I assure you, it can work. You have to put more effort into it then any scoundrel ever had to, but it is viable.

 

I have played about 20 solo queue matches on combat medic since 2.4 was released(in full DPS gear), and not one of those matches was against any famous players, so I haven't got tons of experience with arena yet. But from what I managed to gather up, it seems that the difference between mando and scoundrel have equalized(slightly), from rwz pre 2.4.

From what I've seen combat medic is absolutely viable, it's just that it will always require more effort than the other healers. Not that you will ever(as far as I have seen) outperform a good scoundrel, but still viable.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Well ive lost 9 games in a row now. There NOTHING i can do. I get 3+ ppl on me. fight starts with a CC wich i break,pop shield + hold the line and then i get stunned again and its game over. Over and over again. Any tips how to survive more than those 4 seconds?

 

The usual response of some PvP players would be . "L2P".

This "argument" is easy to say, and doesn't imply any need to elaborate it any further. That's why it is so much loved among some PvP players - and led me to the suspicion that it is the preferred "argument-shutdown" counter-attack of those who haven't actually played the class that - as they say - "needs to L2P".

.

[SWEtree]

The usual response of some PvP players would be . "L2P".

This "argument" is easy to say, and doesn't imply any need to elaborate it any further. That's why it is so much loved among some PvP players - and led me to the suspicion that it is the preferred "argument-shutdown" counter-attack of those who haven't actually played the class that - as they say - "needs to L2P".

.

 

Well spoken

 

 

""have to stop and chain a bunch of heals"" it means those chasing you catch up and you (speaking about myself now) die because most likely i used all my gcds to get some range.

Its to bad i love the bloody class.Never will i stop playing it BUT its extremely frustrating in arenas. Now i actually avoid them even though i enjoyed them and im hoping the incoming CC nerf on the maras/sents maybe can help us abit.

Edited October 12, 2013 by SWEtree

[Uggen]

The usual response of some PvP players would be . "L2P".

This "argument" is easy to say, and doesn't imply any need to elaborate it any further. That's why it is so much loved among some PvP players - and led me to the suspicion that it is the preferred "argument-shutdown" counter-attack of those who haven't actually played the class that - as they say - "needs to L2P".

.

 

I think everyone agrees that the healer classes needs to be balanced in one way or another. (nerfing scoundrel, boosting mando and sage, or whatever.) We know that the class is not fine, what people are trying to say here is that it is viable. On which I assume you disagree, according to my interpretation of your comment. The problem is that the argument the OP uses to describe this class' uselessness can be used on everything. I can make up such an argument for why for example the scoundrel is bad.

 

"Three dps'ers jump on me and all I can do is to cast slow-release medpack and a few emergency medpacks, which really won't suffice in order to keep me and my team alive. And I can't stealth either, because they always refresh their DoTs on me no matter how many times I cleanse. Then I die. I have lost basically every arena I have played because of this."

This is just an example of how false such statements might be, because as I hope you understand, my example is plain BS.

An elaborated point doesn't necessarily mean it's valid. And to top it off, people here who doesn't agree with him haven't replied "L2P", they have full sentences to state their point of view.

 

It is correct that mando healer needs a buff, but the class is still viable, and has always been(except 2.0-2.3 IMO)

[SWEtree]

The class is ofc not useless. Im having minor problem expressing my thoughts because this isnt my native language. We dont need stronger heals imo. The problem is the shutdown.

Wasnt ment to be a "lolmandos sux" thread. Need better solo-survivalbility.

[AdmiralParmesan]

Any class/spec that is based on casting that doesn't have cover is by default going to be hard to play in this game. The amount of interrupts alone guarantees that.

[PhatMcMuffins]

A mando/merc medic has a time limit of about 2.5 minutes in a team ranked game. By that time, you have spent you cds and are either interrupt locked, in heat trouble, or both. If your team hasn't made a kill, someone will die here.

 

In solo queue, its just not gonna happen because you can't coordinate your team to peel and such.

 

At the ranked level, only scoundrel is viable at this point. 2 equally skilled teams with equally skilled healers, one with a scoundrel/op the other with a sage/sorc or mando/merc, the one with the scoundrel/op wins because they cannot be interrupt locked and their energy is actually manageable.

 

This is not an op QQ. I don't think they are OP in arenas because they are the only one that can sustain the healing required to make a bringing a healer more important than just another dps.

 

Mercs/mandos need more interrupt immunity than their shield (which shouldn't have to be used just to heal a teammate but can/will happen when you can't get a heal off and need to save someone) and need lower cooldowns on their cds (arsenal and pyro both get abilities that lower the active cooldown of one of the two)

 

Sorc heals need bubble stun on themselves. I think that would give them the separation and time they need but thats speculation.

 

I love mando/merc healing, but I've been forced to run dps to be competitive and only heal on my op for team rateds.