Gambling is illegal

[MillionsKNives]

Pokemon tells you the odds of getting commons, uncommons, and rares. They had to, people threatened a lawsuit against the publishers of Magic: The Gathering for that very reason.

 

Source?

[GARhenus]

All packs should drop everything or hazed will sue

 

[Malastare]

Its not funny

 

Defined under racketeering

 

Fail.

 

In order to be racketeering, you have to prove at least two things:

1. The activity is illegal.
   
2. The activity is gambling.
   

 

You still utterly fail to prove either:

1. It's not gambling, by the legal definition. You cannot receive anything of value. CC have zero value. Veractyls or Dyes or any other item you might get has zero value. Neither the CCs nor the items can be converted to currency. Thus, there is no reward. It cannot be gambling if there is no reward and you were never told there would be a cash-equivalent reward.
   
2. The activity isn't illegal. This is largely due to point 1, but also due to the fact that you already signed an agreement outlining your use of the service.
   

 

You can quote the definitions all you want. That's not an argument. You still aren't understanding the words in your own statements. You seem to know about as much about the law as you do about coding... and that's not that much.

[mikebevo]

except I don't enter a contract with either Kinder Egg or Paul Mccartney when I purchase either of those things.

Yes...yes you have. You can not use it anyway you want, due to patient and copyright laws.

Edited October 3, 2013 by mikebevo

[TrakonBazzaak]

The OP may be wrong in a legal sense, but the spirit of his post is completely legitimate.

 

We are all flawed broken humans, broken by the world, seeking to fill the holes in our being.

 

I myself have succumbed to the dangers of the cartel market.

 

 

I am Trakon Bazzak, and Im a Cartel Coin addict.

 

I have destroyed everything I love with the purchase of cartel coins, collectible card games , and texas holdem.

 

I nearly made the ultimate sacrifice.

 

In a previous life I was a successful businessman, the representative of a large engineering firm who specialized in bridge building, with a beautiful wife, and several small children.

 

We had barbecues, went out to the beach weekly, walked in the park, went on bike rides.

 

The Cartel market has destroyed all that.

 

The first few packs were free, as any drug dealer would tell you, THIS is where you get hooked. When I purchased them, the suspense seemed palpable, you could almost cut it with a knife. There it was in my bags, my ticket to never completing another daily....Millions.... nay BILLIONS of credits would be mine within the hour. I was trembling with anticipation every time I opened a new pack...

 

It was all part of their insidious plan.

 

"CMON DADDY NEEDS A NEW SPEEDER!!!!" I would say, and every time I would hit I would get a euphoria akin to winning the swtor lottery. The excitement was seductive, taking me on an emotional roller coaster I just couldnt get enough of.

 

When those packs were nearly gone, I started to come down. The high wore off and I went into an emotional lull feeling almost like a zombie. "I must have MOAR" I thought...wrestling with the fact that if I did purchase them I should get the largest package available so as to get the "Best Value" , and my credit card bill would read

 

-39.99 Origin, Star wars the old republic

 

I knew my wife would question me, but I just didnt care. I had to have more.

 

I bought them, and BOOM I opened a Tythonian lightsaber that would sell for MILLIONS. I just knew that after this bunch of packs I would never return to the drudgery of dailies again. I opened another pack.....crap..... and another.......crap crap crap.

 

19 packs later and I had a million credits for my trouble. I felt drained, beaten and stupid.

 

Then a brilliant idea sparked in my mind.

 

"I can beat the house, I can buy more and Im bound to recoup my monies worth eventually" That night I spent $120 on cartel packs. I ended up filling every bank slot on every toon with useless garbage. From Jawagrams, to useless emotes, I really felt the hard reality of being a loser.

 

The following morning my wife approached me, she said that our credit card company had alerted her through an email notification that we may have been victims of credit card fraud.

 

" They said there was 120 dollars charged to something called Origin. Ill have a look at the online statement."

 

I knew I was caught.

 

Perhaps not today, or tomorrow, but eventually. It didnt matter to me, I would lie, maybe claim my account was hacked.

 

I didnt care, all that mattered was my next coin fix.

 

Immediately I tried to downplay it. "Honey, its just a hundred bucks, let the credit card company figure it out, its what we pay them for."

 

"Thats not the point!" She exclaimed. "I just feel so violated!"

 

"I do too honey." I said. She didnt know how true that statement was. I was going to beat the damn Cartel market one way or another.

 

Eventually as time went on the effect of one hypercrate wasnt enough for me. I spent more and more until there was no denying it.

 

I had a problem.

 

Not long after my wife had figured out that there was no credit fraud and it was infact an inside job that had robbed our perfect family of our disposable income, the inevitable had finally caught up to me.

 

"Trakon, I want a divorce. The kids and I are moving in with my sister for the weekend. I want you out by monday."

 

I simply had no argument to present her that fateful day.

 

I managed to eek out the words " ok ....I understand", and hung up the phone. I deserved this, it was my fault.

 

I grabbed all the money I could, a photo album and my laptop case.

 

My addiction to the market and the sale of items from said market forced me to begin playing at work, missing important meetings and forgoing personal hygiene. After all I was a degenerate gambler living out of a 1998 Chevorlet Cavalier.

 

The final step into my full transformation was the loss of my job. I took odd jobs here and there, making what money I could to fund my addiction. Finally I made matters worse by selling my car. With that money I entered the circuit of back room Texas Hold-em games, and high stakes Magic the gathering tournaments, to fund my habit.

 

All to no avail.

 

 

Today I am living in the parking lot of the central library, leeching their wifi, and living from the kindness of strangers.

 

My abode is a small makeshift shack made from garbage bags, boxes and old pulp romance novels.

 

Dont make my mistake.

 

Stay away from the allure of digital gambling.

 

 

Thank you OP for bringing my plight out into the open for all to see.

 

Pray for me.

[Hazed]

Just cancel your account and move on, dude. Don't be another litigious tool, cluttering up the courts in hope of getting a settlement from the corporate teat just to shut you up. The courts really, really have better things to do.

 

My position would not allow me to take a settlement (I wouldn't sell out anyway).. I know they will settle, what I want is for EA to admit its wrongdoing formally. Any damages received as a result of this will go to helping families with gambling addictions

[DOHboy]

Pokemon tells you the odds of getting commons, uncommons, and rares. They had to, people threatened a lawsuit against the publishers of Magic: The Gathering for that very reason.

 

as does this game. you get 2 rare items with chance at a super rare, 1 boost, 1 rare crafting material or something along those lines.

 

Those that Witch about the "gambling" are talking about the "chance at a super rare". And when they don't get one after N number of packs complain about the "odds" which we've explained 1000 times ad nauseam as well.

 

Each pack has %chance for super rare opening more only gives you more opportunities to roll against the RNG. But the chance on any given pack is constant.

 

which now makes this 1001 times.

[mikebevo]

My position would not allow me to take a settlement (I wouldn't sell out anyway).. I know they will settle, what I want is for EA to admit its wrongdoing formally. Any damages received as a result of this will go to helping families with gambling addictions

They will not settle, because you have no case. Someone sueing you for trolldom is just as likely to win.

[MillionsKNives]

My position would not allow me to take a settlement (I wouldn't sell out anyway).. I know they will settle, what I want is for EA to admit its wrongdoing formally. Any damages received as a result of this will go to helping families with gambling addictions

 

Hahahahahahahahahah. Funny stuff.

Edited October 3, 2013 by MillionsKNives

[Malastare]

My position would not allow me to take a settlement (I wouldn't sell out anyway).. I know they will settle, what I want is for EA to admit its wrongdoing formally. Any damages received as a result of this will go to helping families with gambling addictions

 

Funny. Your thread started with: "Show me the percentages so I know how rare stuff is", but when you proved that you were just as uninformed about gambling laws as you were about basic programming, you gave up and tried something else. Now you're a gambling crusader, off to conquer EA with your not-even-novice level understanding of basic legal terms.

 

Understand a couple things: 1) The license agreement forbids lawsuits. The first action taken on filing your suit would the cancellation of your account. 2) You have no legal standing, as you've lost no money. Again, CCs have no value, and nothing in the game has value. No value means no damages. 3) Many states have penalties for plaintiffs who file lawsuits that are obviously groundless. Penalties range from fines (which you really want) to payment of the defendants' legal fees (which you really don't want).

[captpickles]

There seems to be a big misunderstanding when it comes to what gambling is and whether or not its illegal.

 

as per Merriam Webster's

 

gam·ble verb \ˈgam-bəl\

: to play a game in which you can win or lose money or possessions : to bet money or other valuable things

 

: to risk losing (an amount of money) in a game or bet

 

: to risk losing (something valuable or important) in order to do or achieve something

 

 

So either post the "odds" of getting something specific in a cartel pack or you will be sued in the very near future.

 

/wave of hand/ "these are not the odds you are looking for..."

[Hazed]

Funny. Your thread started with: "Show me the percentages so I know how rare stuff is", but when you proved that you were just as uninformed about gambling laws as you were about basic programming, you gave up and tried something else. Now you're a gambling crusader, off to conquer EA with your not-even-novice level understanding of basic legal terms.

 

Understand a couple things: 1) The license agreement forbids lawsuits. The first action taken on filing your suit would the cancellation of your account. 2) You have no legal standing, as you've lost no money. Again, CCs have no value, and nothing in the game has value. No value means no damages. 3) Many states have penalties for plaintiffs who file lawsuits that are obviously groundless. Penalties range from fines (which you really want) to payment of the defendants' legal fees (which you really don't want).

 

I guess this is the reason Mensa asks for an IQ exam.. its clear most of the people posting on this thread are not capable of critical thinking.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

I guess this is the reason Mensa asks for an IQ exam.. its clear most of the people posting on this thread are not capable of critical thinking.

 

Ah, the timeless art of losing an argument. When you cant convince someone to agree with you, insult their intelligence. It never fails..to make you look silly

Edited October 3, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus

[chuixupu]

I guess this is the reason Mensa asks for an IQ exam.. its clear most of the people posting on this thread are not capable of critical thinking.

 

Oh, the irony.

 

Keep it up, little guy, most amusing thread in a long time.

[Hazed]

The OP may be wrong in a legal sense, but the spirit of his post is completely legitimate.

 

We are all flawed broken humans, broken by the world, seeking to fill the holes in our being.

 

I myself have succumbed to the dangers of the cartel market.

 

 

I am Trakon Bazzak, and Im a Cartel Coin addict.

 

I have destroyed everything I love with the purchase of cartel coins, collectible card games , and texas holdem.

 

I nearly made the ultimate sacrifice.

 

In a previous life I was a successful businessman, the representative of a large engineering firm who specialized in bridge building, with a beautiful wife, and several small children.

 

We had barbecues, went out to the beach weekly, walked in the park, went on bike rides.

 

The Cartel market has destroyed all that.

 

The first few packs were free, as any drug dealer would tell you, THIS is where you get hooked. When I purchased them, the suspense seemed palpable, you could almost cut it with a knife. There it was in my bags, my ticket to never completing another daily....Millions.... nay BILLIONS of credits would be mine within the hour. I was trembling with anticipation every time I opened a new pack...

 

It was all part of their insidious plan.

 

"CMON DADDY NEEDS A NEW SPEEDER!!!!" I would say, and every time I would hit I would get a euphoria akin to winning the swtor lottery. The excitement was seductive, taking me on an emotional roller coaster I just couldnt get enough of.

 

When those packs were nearly gone, I started to come down. The high wore off and I went into an emotional lull feeling almost like a zombie. "I must have MOAR" I thought...wrestling with the fact that if I did purchase them I should get the largest package available so as to get the "Best Value" , and my credit card bill would read

 

-39.99 Origin, Star wars the old republic

 

I knew my wife would question me, but I just didnt care. I had to have more.

 

I bought them, and BOOM I opened a Tythonian lightsaber that would sell for MILLIONS. I just knew that after this bunch of packs I would never return to the drudgery of dailies again. I opened another pack.....crap..... and another.......crap crap crap.

 

19 packs later and I had a million credits for my trouble. I felt drained, beaten and stupid.

 

Then a brilliant idea sparked in my mind.

 

"I can beat the house, I can buy more and Im bound to recoup my monies worth eventually" That night I spent $120 on cartel packs. I ended up filling every bank slot on every toon with useless garbage. From Jawagrams, to useless emotes, I really felt the hard reality of being a loser.

 

The following morning my wife approached me, she said that our credit card company had alerted her through an email notification that we may have been victims of credit card fraud.

 

" They said there was 120 dollars charged to something called Origin. Ill have a look at the online statement."

 

I knew I was caught.

 

Perhaps not today, or tomorrow, but eventually. It didnt matter to me, I would lie, maybe claim my account was hacked.

 

I didnt care, all that mattered was my next coin fix.

 

Immediately I tried to downplay it. "Honey, its just a hundred bucks, let the credit card company figure it out, its what we pay them for."

 

"Thats not the point!" She exclaimed. "I just feel so violated!"

 

"I do too honey." I said. She didnt know how true that statement was. I was going to beat the damn Cartel market one way or another.

 

Eventually as time went on the effect of one hypercrate wasnt enough for me. I spent more and more until there was no denying it.

 

I had a problem.

 

Not long after my wife had figured out that there was no credit fraud and it was infact an inside job that had robbed our perfect family of our disposable income, the inevitable had finally caught up to me.

 

"Trakon, I want a divorce. The kids and I are moving in with my sister for the weekend. I want you out by monday."

 

I simply had no argument to present her that fateful day.

 

I managed to eek out the words " ok ....I understand", and hung up the phone. I deserved this, it was my fault.

 

I grabbed all the money I could, a photo album and my laptop case.

 

My addiction to the market and the sale of items from said market forced me to begin playing at work, missing important meetings and forgoing personal hygiene. After all I was a degenerate gambler living out of a 1998 Chevorlet Cavalier.

 

The final step into my full transformation was the loss of my job. I took odd jobs here and there, making what money I could to fund my addiction. Finally I made matters worse by selling my car. With that money I entered the circuit of back room Texas Hold-em games, and high stakes Magic the gathering tournaments, to fund my habit.

 

All to no avail.

 

 

Today I am living in the parking lot of the central library, leeching their wifi, and living from the kindness of strangers.

 

My abode is a small makeshift shack made from garbage bags, boxes and old pulp romance novels.

 

Dont make my mistake.

 

Stay away from the allure of digital gambling.

 

 

Thank you OP for bringing my plight out into the open for all to see.

 

Pray for me.

 

I know someone who has gone through a similar story

although it was a tragic ending as he swallowed a bullet.. that person was my uncle and he was addicted to gambling.

Its all fun and games till your the one sitting on a street corner asking for a dollar so you can bet against the Browns.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

I know someone who has gone through a similar story

although it was a tragic ending as he swallowed a bullet.. that person was my uncle and he was addicted to gambling.

Its all fun and games till your the one sitting on a street corner asking for a dollar so you can bet against the Browns.

 

So you are really concerned with people's well being? Again I ask you, why arent you so concerned with these folks?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6808880#post6808880

[Hazed]

So you are really concerned with people's well being? Again I ask you, why arent you so concerned with these folks?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6808880#post6808880

 

I can only address one issue at a time, however please note that the issue is on my radar and I can also recommend a few places in Holland where one can get treatment for video game addiction.

[MillionsKNives]

So you are really concerned with people's well being? Again I ask you, why arent you so concerned with these folks?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6808880#post6808880

 

That's it! No more selling video games. Someone might get addicted.

[Drake_Hound]

What are you argueing about this time ?

 

for it be considered gambling it has to be able to reconverted to real life value .

Since there is no real life value other then emotional value to the packs , it isn't consisdered gambling .

 

It just buy stuff that feels like being lucky or unlucky , that some people don't have luck , and others do .

you going to consider all RNG in games gambling now ?

 

Pfttt , people own choice I still have 6.3k cartel coins , and I chose to not use them for anything

[Hazed]

What are you argueing about this time ?

 

for it be considered gambling it has to be able to reconverted to real life value .

Since there is no real life value other then emotional value to the packs , it isn't consisdered gambling .

 

It just buy stuff that feels like being lucky or unlucky , that some people don't have luck , and others do .

you going to consider all RNG in games gambling now ?

 

Pfttt , people own choice I still have 6.3k cartel coins , and I chose to not use them for anything

 

So then you understand that its BS if your holding onto 6.3k coins..

 

meaning if your smart enough to hold those coins there is someone equally as stupid willing to spend them

[The_Grand_Nagus]

I can only address one issue at a time, however please note that the issue is on my radar and I can also recommend a few places in Holland where one can get treatment for video game addiction.

 

So, you dont want them to change the game for people who have video game addition, you just want them to go somewhere to get the treatment they need. Ok, fair enough. The question is, why isnt that good enough for the people with gambling addiction?

[Drake_Hound]

So then you understand that its BS if your holding onto 6.3k coins..

 

meaning if your smart enough to hold those coins there is someone equally as stupid willing to spend them

 

excactly , I don't consider them there at all , I didn't need cartel coins to play this game .

That they are a gift nice to use the babershop with .

 

But other then that they are pointless , well I cannot cure stupidity , neither can I educate people in wisdom .

I can only create awareness , but bottom point is people should PLAY , LIVE there life the way they want to.

As long it doesn't cause harm to anybody else , if people want to self harm themself .

It is there choice there stupidity , sounds harsh but it is reality to me .

[Hazed]

So, you dont want them to change the game for people who have video game addition, you just want them to go somewhere to get the treatment they need. Ok, fair enough. The question is, why isnt that good enough for the people with gambling addiction?

 

No I said I would address that issue in the future, because I can only address one at a time.

The reason I say they should get treatment is because gaming addiction is usually more of a problem for kids (as I understand it) and some time away from the computer/console is usually a good thing anyway.

 

Moreover,

Gambling addicts will get their fix with or without treatment. The only real way to treat gambling addiction is through self actualization.

Secondly, responsible gaming is not an unheard of thing. I am not totally against EA running a casino as long as they label it as such.. with the odds etc.

 

The odds will turn a lot of people away.

 

I know a few people in this thread probably stand to lose out on easy credits if EA changes the way it conducts its business, but its for the betterment of society and the game.

[GARhenus]

I think he needs to see a doctor

[psandak]

Here are the FACTS:

 

• real money is used to purchase CCs. The act of purchasing CCs is a simple retail purchase: one pays money to get an object or a service.
  
• packs are not the only thing one can acquire with CCs. There are individually purchasable pets and outfits and ship gear and color crystals...not to mention all the unlocks for F2P and premium players.
  
• no one is forced to purchase packs (no one is holding a gun to your head saying, "purchase that pack or die!!!")
  
• if you do acquire a pack and you open you always get something; there is zero chance that when you open a pack you get nothing.
  
• different items that come from different packs have different chances that they will appear within a given pack.
  

Is there any dispute over the "facts" listed above?

 

Now here are opinions (based on those facts):

• if one wants a character to look good, one has to use the CM to do so
  
• Most of what makes a character look good comes in packs
  
• if one acquires a (set of) pack(s) with the intent of acquiring a specific item (usually one that is very rare), then everything else contained within that pack(s) is useless.
  
• Because one does not get what they are looking for, they feel as if they "lost" their investment
  
• Therefore, packs must be a form of gambling.
  

 

is this the basic gist Hazed?