DOHboy Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 You are confusing a license to play with ownership. Nothing in this game is yours to keep. It's all IP owned by EA... and access to it is extended to you in the forum of a non-exclusive license under commercial terms stipulated by the company. You can't take a movie home with you from the movie theater either.. but you pay to access it and you may in fact get a great movie that entertains you or you may be forced to sit through a complete turkey of a movie. It's a "gamble". Do you also plan to sue the local movie theater if you do not get the entertainment you feel you deserve? So.. you want to take the communications context of using the word "gamble" and make it = the legal definition (which by the way varies by jurisdiction) and you want to do what with it? That's a real "gamble" on your part as you are very likely going to be tossed out of court for a frivolous claim and may even have to pay court fees as compensation. I think he copy/pasted one word (chance) for another (gamble) and thought they would have the same meaning and result. since you are taking a chance that something you buy will be better than what someone else has it must be gambling and thus illegal should be outlawed. I'm sure OP has an extensive law degree from a very prestigious college (along with his very prestigious CS degree) to make legal interpretations of laws, unlike the dozens of lawyers on retainer for a multi billion dollar company. Waiting for the OP to criticize the writing of the game from a very well renowned writer (Drew Karpyshyan) based on his extensive writing history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Gotta love wanna-be internet lawyers, haha. Well.. he just finished unsuccessfully prosecuting replacement of the engine in another thread.. so a new case was perhaps required, from his perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 So if its not gambling why don't they sell items individually on the cartel market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 So if its not gambling why don't they sell items individually on the cartel market? Wut? What has that got to do with your contention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) So if its not gambling why don't they sell items individually on the cartel market? Because they don't want to. "So if it's not an apple then why don't they sell it in a pink box?" Edited October 3, 2013 by MillionsKNives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Arguing on these forums is like arguing with Fox News.. your just always wrong while a bunch of Pundits (Fanboys) try to find anything in your argument to discredit the actual facts provided. Fact: This is gambling Fact: You can't compare opening a digital pack of digital merchandise to buying a box of lettuce at the supermarket.. especially since if your smart YOUD BUY A FRIGGEN HEAD OF LETTUCE TOOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNahash Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Arguing on these forums is like arguing with Fox News.. your just always wrong while a bunch of Pundits (Fanboys) try to find anything in your argument to discredit the actual facts provided. Fact: This is gambling Fact: You can't compare opening a digital pack of digital merchandise to buying a box of lettuce at the supermarket.. especially since if your smart YOUD BUY A FRIGGEN HEAD OF LETTUCE TOOL. I agree. However, in this case, you are Fox News, mate. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Arguing on these forums is like arguing with Fox News.. your just always wrong while a bunch of Pundits (Fanboys) try to find anything in your argument to discredit the actual facts provided. Fact: This is gambling Fact: You can't compare opening a digital pack of digital merchandise to buying a box of lettuce at the supermarket.. especially since if your smart YOUD BUY A FRIGGEN HEAD OF LETTUCE TOOL. You have provided no facts but some definitions that don't defend your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Wut? What has that got to do with your contention? They are using gambling to get the same people to buy packs over and over.. since if they sold the items individually they would not be able to extract as much funds from the "whales" who play this game. You might call that good business practice, I call it racketeering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 So if its not gambling why don't they sell items individually on the cartel market? it's called a Grab Bag and is one of the oldest marketing traditions out there, many companies with an abundance of leftover product puts one out in some form or another, and it's perfectly legal... though it is most common with things like trading cards, toys, comic books, and the like... our Cartel Pack items, they are toys, nothing more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Fact: This is gambling If that is the term you wish to use for "chance" feel free. But your use of the term has no legal standing and as such your threats in your OP to present them with litigation are baseless. So again..... Not according to law. Do you really think the legal beagles at EA have not vetting their commercial practices 10 ways to the wind?? Seriously? Fact: You can't compare opening a digital pack of digital merchandise to buying a box of lettuce at the supermarket.. especially since if your smart YOUD BUY A FRIGGEN HEAD OF LETTUCE TOOL. Actually.. we can make a comparison. Here you go: You can purchase a random bundle of groceries from your local supermarket IF they choose to sell them. For the sake of your analogy.. we will stipulate that yes indeed the supermarket IS selling them.. and customers ARE buying them. OR You can just purchase the lettuce you want from some other customer that bought random grocery bundles and is now selling whatever they do not want to other customers right outside in the front of the market. Edited October 3, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 They are using gambling to get the same people to buy packs over and over.. since if they sold the items individually they would not be able to extract as much funds from the "whales" who play this game. You might call that good business practice, I call it racketeering. You can call it whatever you like, but that doesn't change what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 They are using gambling to get the same people to buy packs over and over.. since if they sold the items individually they would not be able to extract as much funds from the "whales" who play this game. No they are not. They are selling packs with a list of possible random items. They are not required to list the odds for each item.. precisely because it is not a contest or gambling by any legal definition. I call it racketeering. You can call it anything you like. You can call it a "turnip" if that makes you feel better. But what you call it does not define it under any legal statute or law. In addition, any forum member is free to agree with any term you decide on, OR NOT. Just as they are free to agree with you on any theory or premise you choose to present, OR NOT. How's that working out for you, by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 If that is the term you wish to use for "chance" feel free. But your use of the term has no legal standing and as such your threats in your OP to present them with litigation are baseless. So again..... Not according to law. Do you really think the legal beagles at EA have not vetting their commercial practices 10 ways to the wind?? Seriously? Actually.. we can make a comparison. Here you go: You can purchase a random bundle of groceries from your local supermarket IF they choose to sell them. For the sake of your analogy.. we will stipulate that yes indeed the supermarket IS selling them.. and customers ARE buying them. OR You can just purchase the lettuce you want from some other customer that bought random grocery bundles and is now selling whatever they do not want to other customers right outside in the front of the market. lol what imaginary world does this occur in? I understand the concept of grab bags.. but grab bags are usually an assortment of items already available. When you make it so the only way to get a head of lettuce is in some closed box where you have a "chance" at getting lettuce your logic fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Making money off RNG = Racketeering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 When you make it so the only way to get a head of lettuce is in some closed box where you have a "chance" at getting lettuce your logic fails. Bringing analogy back to context...... By making the "<insert your craved item>" freely tradeable between players... they have completely short circuited your complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Making money off RNG = Racketeering Making money off RNG = gerbil poop with honey on top We can do this all day you know... make statements and assign random definitions to said statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiborF Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 There seems to be a big misunderstanding when it comes to what gambling is and whether or not its illegal. as per Merriam Webster's gam·ble verb \ˈgam-bəl\ : to play a game in which you can win or lose money or possessions : to bet money or other valuable things : to risk losing (an amount of money) in a game or bet : to risk losing (something valuable or important) in order to do or achieve something So either post the "odds" of getting something specific in a cartel pack or you will be sued in the very near future. Does that mean OCD people who get distraught when they don't get exactly 28 blue M&Ms in a bag can sue M&M Mars for not putting the average percentages of colors on the wrapper? I mean, if they're expecting 28 blue M&Ms and the bag states nothing of the average percentages of colors to found within the bag, then they are gambling whether or not they will get 28 M&Ms, at least by YOUR definition. Makes you wonder if companies like Upper Deck and Topps disclose on their packaging your chances of getting specific players' rookie cards in each pack. Sorry but, gambling refers to games of chance, not a purchase.If you wish to engage in semantics trying to argue that buying a Cartel pack is akin to playing black jack or roulette than sorry but, you are simply wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 lol what imaginary world does this occur in? I understand the concept of grab bags.. but grab bags are usually an assortment of items already available. When you make it so the only way to get a head of lettuce is in some closed box where you have a "chance" at getting lettuce your logic fails. The real world, which has things like trading cards, and the lockboxes sold in a variety of MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedip_enguin Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Making money off RNG = Racketeering They made money selling Cartel Coins, not Packs champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Racketeering?!? seriously? At no point do I feel FORCED to buy said packs for anything other than my personal enjoyment. They are not REQUIRED to play the game, they are not required to be competitive. If I DON'T buy said packs, there is no CONSEQUENCES that would otherwise be imposed. since by definition a racket is forcing people to undertake an activity (protection) from the consequence that would otherwise be imposed from those performing the service. I think we could all agree that it could be called murder from all the people"who would just 'die' if they don't pull a rare mount or color crystal from these packs. Since not pulling it would be the end of their world..oh wait. I guess that would make it Armageddon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiborF Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Arguing on these forums is like arguing with Fox News.. your just always wrong while a bunch of Pundits (Fanboys) try to find anything in your argument to discredit the actual facts provided. Fact: This is gambling Fact: You can't compare opening a digital pack of digital merchandise to buying a box of lettuce at the supermarket.. especially since if your smart YOUD BUY A FRIGGEN HEAD OF LETTUCE TOOL. I think the only thing that people in this thread are "fanboys" of, with relation to this thread, is pointing out the fallacies in the OP's logic. But you're right, there is at least one person in this thread being a "tool". I'm not naming names but, they share a similar status in another thread about "porting" to a different game engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 There seems to be a big misunderstanding when it comes to what gambling is and whether or not its illegal. as per Merriam Webster's gam·ble verb \ˈgam-bəl\ : to play a game in which you can win or lose money or possessions : to bet money or other valuable things : to risk losing (an amount of money) in a game or bet : to risk losing (something valuable or important) in order to do or achieve something So either post the "odds" of getting something specific in a cartel pack or you will be sued in the very near future. I can't believe this topic has reared its ugly head again. All I can say at this point is: GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 The real world, which has things like trading cards, and the lockboxes sold in a variety of MMOs. The difference between trading cards and gambling bags in an MMO is that trading cards are real. Everything in a gambling bag is imaginary. You can "win" a rare trading card, which is not much of a win, but you actually win something. If you win a gambling bag dice roll, you win nothing that is physically real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I can't believe this topic has reared its ugly head again. All I can say at this point is: GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! He's "gambling" that the forum will agree with him. The odds do not appear to favor his "gamble" But I'm not going to accuse him of anything nefarious.. like.. racketeering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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