Gambling is illegal

[Hazed]

YES A MILLION TIMES YES. Doing what is right for their company, share holders, and employees is the ONLY thing that matters (within the law and regulations)

 

Tell me.. "do whats right for who..." right for their share holders...right for their employees...right for customers that know how to wipe backside without help?

 

What is right, is one persons opinion set against another's opinion. Who determines "what is right" you, me..government?

 

How about doing whats morally right.

 

If I were to roll a hotdog cart into a slum and charge people who dont even have access to clean water (you know the kind of place Susan Summers works at or the old dude)

If I went to that place and sold those people a grab bag with assorted sticks and a chance at a hotdog.. would that be sound business practice?

[branmakmuffin]

Pay 100 CC, spin the spinner. Maybe you get something, maybe you lose your 100 CC.

 

That's gambling.

 

How about doing whats morally right.

 

If I were to roll a hotdog cart into a slum and charge people who dont even have access to clean water (you know the kind of place Susan Summers works at or the old dude)

If I went to that place and sold those people a grab bag with assorted sticks and a chance at a hotdog.. would that be sound business practice?

How about you make a better [redacted] analogy?

Edited October 4, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[PhilD]

OP has actually ridden this hobbyhorse for 31 pages?

 

First rule of the interwebz, folks: Don't talk to crazy people.

[branmakmuffin]

OP has actually ridden this hobbyhorse for 31 pages?

 

First rule of the interwebz, folks: Don't talk to crazy people.

You just did.

[MillionsKNives]

How about doing whats morally right.

 

If I were to roll a hotdog cart into a slum and charge people who dont even have access to clean water (you know the kind of place Susan Summers works at or the old dude)

If I went to that place and sold those people a grab bag with assorted sticks and a chance at a hotdog.. would that be sound business practice?

 

Oh my god. I didn't realize that the people who play this game were so poor that they couldn't get access to clean water. We should let EA know so that they can sell them better pixels to satiate their hunger and thirst. Better cuff the execs for human rights violations.

[LordArtemis]

In the end, IMO, another reasonable point has been washed in dramatic prose and unreasonable contentions and the original point ends up getting lost.

 

Having desirable items in gambling packs is a bummer, sure. I would guess most folks don't care for it, but that would just be a guess...like anything else that has a cost, you may not like it but decide to patronize any way.

 

Obviously if it was not in high demand I tend to think it would not part of the game.

 

That said, I don't like it, I don't partake in it.

 

It is greedy, sure. But I support that greed.....for now.....because I want the game to remain healthy and it is providing plenty of content.

 

If the numbers reported are not an improvement, and/or the content begins to dry up I may change my view.

[branmakmuffin]

In the end, IMO, another reasonable point has been washed in dramatic prose and unreasonable contentions and the original point ends up getting lost.

Reasonable point? You cannot possibly mean the OP.

[Hazed]

Oh my god. I didn't realize that the people who play this game were so poor that they couldn't get access to clean water. We should let EA know so that they can sell them better pixels to satiate their hunger and thirst. Better cuff the execs for human rights violations.

 

put it like this.. assume those people already have their nutrition through some fund.. they get a bottle of soylent green.. but the hot dog is a desire.. similar to the desire we have to playing games (i.e. its not a need its a want).

 

The root of the issue is the same.. is it morally right to mess with peoples "wants" in order to profit. You could just sell them a hot dog.. but your choosing to sell them a bag full of sticks because you will make more money while they try to get the hot dog

[LordArtemis]

Reasonable point? You cannot possibly mean the OP.

 

Not only is it possible, anything is possible branmakmuffin. I may be typing this in a superman outfit.

 

The reasonable point would be that cartel packs are exploitative and addictive and it is a greedy practice. If stated in that way it certainly seems to be to be a reasonable contention....though I do not berate them for it for reasons I have indicated, that is the reality of it IMO.

 

I give them a pass on the exploitative nature of the packs for now if content continues to be added to the game and the numbers continue to improve.

 

That reasonable contention was washed in hyperbole and unreasonable threats and contentions. If the OP was simply put as.....

 

I think the cartel packs are exploitative and a greedy practice, and I think there are better ways to present content and gain profit from customers....

 

....then I think it would have been a message that some folks would have agreed with. The gambling and lawsuit points were ridiculous IMO.

Edited October 4, 2013 by LordArtemis

[branmakmuffin]

The reasonable point would be that cartel packs are exploitative and addictive and it is a greedy practice. If stated in that way it certainly seems to be to be a reasonable contention....though I do not deride it for reasons I have indicated, that is the reality of it IMO.

Take that to its extreme and every entertainment product is exploitative (whether or not something is "addictive" has nothing to do with the thing itself, unless we start talking about things like nicotine and heroin).

Edited October 4, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Hazed]

Not only is it possible, anything is possible branmakmuffin. I may be typing this in a superman outfit.

 

The reasonable point would be that cartel packs are exploitative and addictive and it is a greedy practice. If stated in that way it certainly seems to be to be a reasonable contention....though I do not deride it for reasons I have indicated, that is the reality of it IMO.

 

I give them a pass on the exploitative nature of the packs for now if content continues to be added to the game and the numbers continue to improve.

 

You are one of the few people on these forums I have general respect for. You don't agree with what I say, but you at least "get it" in some way.

 

Respect.

[DOHboy]

How about doing whats morally right.

 

If I were to roll a hotdog cart into a slum and charge people who dont even have access to clean water (you know the kind of place Susan Summers works at or the old dude)

If I went to that place and sold those people a grab bag with assorted sticks and a chance at a hotdog.. would that be sound business practice?

 

well if people were willing to spend money on assorted sticks sure, my guess they would choose to spend money on other things. Maybe they can sell to guy who got the hotdog so they can roast it over the fire made with additional sticks.

 

you playing on my emotions is not going to work for any "logical" argument, which is what this has turned into. Liberalism will NEVER win on logic and reason, it ONLY has emotions as its weapon.

 

Morals, social responsibility, do the right thing. at not point is there a logical argument to be made. its all just they killed my puppy.

 

As for what you do with your money, thats your choice. IF you think you can buy a food cart and sell sticks for it. Go for it. If they use those sticks to beat you to goo...well you did it for the right reasons. you tried to be just, and fair.

Edited October 4, 2013 by DOHboy

[Imhotep]

is it morally right to mess with peoples "wants" in order to profit. Y

 

What do you think a business does??? They cater to the demand of their product. They are not responsible for people's lack of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

 

All I see here is another anti-establishment hippy railing against the man.

[branmakmuffin]

well if people were willing to spend money on assorted sticks sure, my guess they would choose to spend money on other things. Maybe they can sell to guy who got the hotdog so they can roast it over the fire made with additional sticks.

 

you playing on my emotions is not going to work for any "logical" argument, which is what this has turned into. Liberalism will NEVER win on logic and reason, it ONLY has emotions as its weapon.

I think your politics have no place in this discussion.

[LordArtemis]

Take that to its extreme and every entertainment product is exploitative (whether or not something is "addictive" has nothing to do with the thing itself, unless we start talking about things like nicotine and heroin).

 

Yes, almost all business is exploitative in some way and in most cases needs to be based on a healthy growth model. Again, as long as that profit provides the content I enjoy and positive growth I would give any company a pass on it.

 

I only speak to the obvious nature of the packs. Whether or not someone finds that honorable is up to them. For me it may not be honorable but it is acceptable at this time. The game was in trouble, and this is one way to provide the kind of content I enjoy.

 

But I think the amount of disdain for the practice of providing gambling packs in games is pretty obvious industry wide.

[Hazed]

What do you think a business does??? They cater to the demand of their product. They are not responsible for people's lack of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

 

All I see here is another anti-establishment hippy railing against the man.

 

We created a culture that does not take responsibility, I would argue that both the consumer AND the business is at fault. Current models for profitability are unsustainable.. everyday more and more people are left out hung to dry by someone who just wants to make an extra buck that they probably can't even use (i.e. companies sitting on tons of capital atm)

 

For example.. in order to make more money EA began outsourcing most of its devs overseas since ~2006

 

I don't think I need to explain how [Redacted] that is, but here it goes anyway:

 

1. Companies ship jobs overseas

2. Companies create new markets overseas

3. Places companies employed (see China) use the money to create their own business to supply their own markets

4. U.S. company shifts direction to market overseas to the very people making the product

5. Where does that leave the U.S.? When its no longer profitable to sell to us.. and instead they focus on making games in Chinese?

[The_Grand_Nagus]

OP, if you are worried about people not having enough money for their daily necessities, are you willing to accept the trade I just mentioned in my previous post? Edited October 4, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus

[DOHboy]

put it like this.. assume those people already have their nutrition through some fund.. they get a bottle of soylent green.. but the hot dog is a desire.. similar to the desire we have to playing games (i.e. its not a need its a want).

 

The root of the issue is the same.. is it morally right to mess with peoples "wants" in order to profit. You could just sell them a hot dog.. but your choosing to sell them a bag full of sticks because you will make more money while they try to get the hot dog

 

prior to 1920s there was never a "need" for toothpaste. people had no idea their breath smelled because everyones smelled the same. Until someone pointed out that minty breath smelled better and that to not have it was socially unacceptable.

 

Telling someone you are going to sell them one thing and provide another is called FRAUD. now if you tell people you are selling sticks and have a chance at a gold covered one, as long as you can show that at least one person has won a gold stick (and that it actually exists) then that is not fraud.

 

I NEED food..I WANT a cheeseburger so burger joints should be shunned because they play on my basic desire for a cheeseburger?

 

This game has NEVER promised something beyond what was provided. they sell you EXACTLY what is listed. What the specific items are can vary but will ALWAYS be within the defined bounds.

[Hazed]

So, the OP wants them to get rid of the packs and just sale the items individually. Its a valid opinion, but here is the catch: if they do that, they would have to do it in a way that made them the same amount of money as they are currently making from the packs; otherwise they would be making a bad financial decision. Due to the nature of the packs, they obviously make more than they would if people could buy exactly what they want for normal prices, so if they were going to allow people to buy exactly what they want, they would have to charge extremely high prices like $100 per item. Are you willing to accept that trade OP?

 

Yes

 

but

 

$39.99 seems more reasonable and attainable by people

 

and at $19.99 you will probably double your sale because its what most parents would give their kids anyway.

[LordArtemis]

If a game does not provide content or design in a matter acceptable to the vast majority of players, they can "vote with their feet" and things will change...

 

Case in point? The game's original launch state compared to it's state at present. I believe that some of the folks that left the game (note I said some, other factors were involved with the losses as well IMO) did so because they were not happy with it in it's launch state, and that loss of players got Bioware's attention.

 

If packs have the same effect on the playerbase players will likely do the same thing. If they do not the majority has spoken.

 

Just my slant. I don't personally like and therefore do not generally patronize packs. However, for me, as long as the kind of content I want to see continues to be added to the game I will not deny Bioware any opportunity to profit from it's playerbase, or deride them for doing so.

 

Like I said, they get a pass from me....for now.

[anesvik]

Umm I believe that what makes gambling illegal is that the government don't get taxes on it. So I think BW is safe ... But you could see a lawyer to see where you stand on it.

 

The Oregon Lottory is taxed. Some of the money has been taxed for schools, police and public works. And Gambling is legal. Vegas? Powerball? Megabucks? Any of these ringing a bell?

And Cartel Packs are not gambling. It tells you what type of items you get. Your collection shows all the items you can get. You get what you pay for. Just because it is not the boost you wanted, you STILL got a boost. And did you get an item that is labeled rare? yes you did.

The OP has no valid point, this thread needs to be closed.

[Imhotep]

We created a culture that does not take responsibility, I would argue that both the consumer AND the business is at fault. Current models for profitability are unsustainable.. everyday more and more people are left out hung to dry by someone who just wants to make an extra buck that they probably can't even use (i.e. companies sitting on tons of capital atm)

 

For example.. in order to make more money EA began outsourcing most of its devs overseas since ~2006

 

I don't think I need to explain how [Redacted] that is, but here it goes anyway:

 

1. Companies ship jobs overseas

2. Companies create new markets overseas

3. Places companies employed (see China) use the money to create their own business to supply their own markets

4. U.S. company shifts direction to market overseas to the very people making the product

5. Where does that leave the U.S.? When its no longer profitable to sell to us.. and instead they focus on making games in Chinese?

 

Companies do what they must to survive. I could argue that unions are a huge cause of losing jobs to other countries because unions do not care about a companies sustainability but only for their own greed. They would rather see a company die, than make concessions, ie Hostess. Our society has bred irresponsibility, through decades of screw the man, rich people are evil type misguided thinking. We abhor success in the US now and that is sad. Why be responsible when I can leech off of others to fix my issues that I caused myself.

[LordArtemis]

The OP has no valid point, this thread needs to be closed.

 

I personally disagree. The OP has one general valid point...that gambling packs are a greedy practice, and I think that argument can be made, though I may not agree with it completely or stand against the practice.

 

The way that point was presented was ludicrous IMO...but the base point is arguable.

 

So I think if we can wade through the hyperbole the discussion can be had.

[PhilD]

 

I don't want to get into a thing here, but this is NOT what happened to Hostess. Getting people to buy that narrative was a major PR score for the company, though.

[Andryah]

We created a culture that does not take responsibility, I would argue that both the consumer AND the business is at fault. Current models for profitability are unsustainable.. everyday more and more people are left out hung to dry by someone who just wants to make an extra buck that they probably can't even use (i.e. companies sitting on tons of capital atm)

 

For example.. in order to make more money EA began outsourcing most of its devs overseas since ~2006

 

I don't think I need to explain how [Redacted] that is, but here it goes anyway:

 

1. Companies ship jobs overseas

2. Companies create new markets overseas

3. Places companies employed (see China) use the money to create their own business to supply their own markets

4. U.S. company shifts direction to market overseas to the very people making the product

5. Where does that leave the U.S.? When its no longer profitable to sell to us.. and instead they focus on making games in Chinese?

 

Off topic from your own thread by a wide margin. Now you are just ranting mindless talking points.

 

If you want to return to a pre-world economy era....sell all your stuff and move to a cabin in the woods. Don't forget to get rid of your computer and all internet connections as well.