2.4+ DPS Leaderboard

[Kahntun]

Fairly against it. Double SA was the BIS, but the other relics were only 10-15 power per minute behind. That's not enough of a significant stat change to alter the outlier Crit parses. We're talking changes of maybe 10-20DPS if the same parse had been done with Damage Proc, and arguably a DF BA + DF SA was better than DF SA + Obroan SA for any non-DOT spec class, and especially so for any class that has to build its own resource because the length of the procs wasn't significant enough. This would be different if it was more on the operation lines of the Mainstat Procs, but they're not, so it's not worth talking about

 

agreed ^

[countpopeula]

Q.Q

But seriously, if it's not "that important" just beat your top parse using different relics

 

/Shrug take Ranick into Palace and give him his second relic so I can DF BA/SA and I guarantee I'll break 3600 and boost my median parses. I doubt my guys will approve of me jumping up on the loot list just to get 3 extra deeps on a dummy parse. Also, I'm going to stop playing for the holidays so hmddddd, don't careeeeeee.

[dakisback]

/Shrug take Ranick into Palace and give him his second relic so I can DF BA/SA and I guarantee I'll break 3600 and boost my median parses. I doubt my guys will approve of me jumping up on the loot list just to get 3 extra deeps on a dummy parse. Also, I'm going to stop playing for the holidays so hmddddd, don't careeeeeee.

 

Obroan +225 Main stat relic has 20 sec cd so it's better than BA. Just a heads up

Edited November 13, 2013 by dakisback

[countpopeula]

Obroan +225 Main stat relic has 20 sec cd so it's better than BA. Just a heads up

 

Uh, 40 seconds. You mean 40 seconds. L2relic Dak. /Disappoint.

[Vanyer]

Uh, 40 seconds. You mean 40 seconds. L2relic Dak. /Disappoint.

 

Sarcasm? Tool-tip appears to be wrong - definitely 20 sec internal cooldown, and refreshes on heals. Speaking of which, PVE SA relics (or at least, my UW, but not by Obroan), are still refreshing from heals.

 

As for archiving? Ya, I think if the point of this thread is to see what sort of numbers a class can put out w/ current gear/coding, no real reason to include parses that are no longer possible. That being said, I definitely agree w/ Noire: absolutely nothing wrong with using a 3-month old bug on the dev's part to boost our damage - it's our job as DPS to maximize damage, and anyone who is ************ about the top parsers using double SA is... misguided.

[countpopeula]

Sarcasm? Tool-tip appears to be wrong - definitely 20 sec internal cooldown, and refreshes on heals. Speaking of which, PVE SA relics (or at least, my UW, but not by Obroan), are still refreshing from heals.

 

As for archiving? Ya, I think if the point of this thread is to see what sort of numbers a class can put out w/ current gear/coding, no real reason to include parses that are no longer possible. That being said, I definitely agree w/ Noire: absolutely nothing wrong with using a 3-month old bug on the dev's part to boost our damage - it's our job as DPS to maximize damage, and anyone who is ************ about the top parsers using double SA is... misguided.

 

Tooltips be damned I guess. The question is, are they functioning as intended or broken as well? Owait not srsly a question because the damage coefficient still wouldn't be that of a KD damage proc relic. /Discussion.

[Transmet]

Tooltips be damned I guess. The question is, are they functioning as intended or broken as well? Owait not srsly a question because the damage coefficient still wouldn't be that of a KD damage proc relic. /Discussion.

 

word on the street is the 20 seconds is bugged and should be 40. so, expect a fix like the SA?

[dakisback]

word on the street is the 20 seconds is bugged and should be 40. so, expect a fix like the SA?

 

If the 20 sec cd is a bug, it's pretty much an official announcement that the developers don't know ****. It's barely good at a 20 second cooldown, if it's a 40 second cooldown it's only 1/3rd as good as a serendipitous assault.

[Falver]

The relic is honestly so poor it's not really a concern for me.

[countpopeula]

If the 20 sec cd is a bug, it's pretty much an official announcement that the developers don't know ****. It's barely good at a 20 second cooldown, if it's a 40 second cooldown it's only 1/3rd as good as a serendipitous assault.

 

Bro, went to the NYC Cantina Tour. The devs don't know asterisks. Srsly. Lynx and I and to explain to them how the roll bug worked because they "couldn't replicate it". I was drunk though, and while I think I would totally give it to Courtney Woods, can't be sure.

[Transmet]

If the 20 sec cd is a bug, it's pretty much an official announcement that the developers don't know ****. It's barely good at a 20 second cooldown, if it's a 40 second cooldown it's only 1/3rd as good as a serendipitous assault.

 

because the devs are looking at the leaderboards and actually listening to what we say.....:PPPPPPP

 

Hey dev, if you see this...fix operative dps. It has to be the least played dps class in the game next to PT and it's meh....and even PT/Vanguard are doing way better than we are. The only thing consistently below us are assassins and they're getting buffed. +5 energy 4 piece set isnt even trying....let's see what else...oh yeah, fix the overwrite bug on Lingering Toxins....stop making us play the lottery with our rotation with Shivs; give us something reliable. mk?

Edited November 13, 2013 by Transmet
sasdasdasdasd

[Xenphon]

Xenphon - Marauder - Carnage - 7/36/3 - 3504.94

 

AMR

 

---

 

Crit numbers so-so (ravage and DST good, but VT bad), but must have come just at the right times. Fun that I broke 3.5k after bug was fixed and I went back to KT relic.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Xenphon

[Auronfive]

Auron - Sorcerer - lightning- 3/36/7 - 3157.12

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/491894/time/1384340035/1384340349/0/Overview

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/04e12e4b-aab4-445d-8ef6-dfc17da4fcca

Edited November 13, 2013 by Auronfive

[Ardarell_Solo]

I won't be making a new thread, it's a little too early for that, but right now I'm leaning to turn the third post into the archive.

 

I'd strongly favour that, because...

 

1. As explained before, double procs that contradict the tooltip always seemed a bit like cheating to me. Plus I always preffered one BA with the SA to have another offensive cooldown for OPs for better tactical control of encounters. And then I didn't want to use different relics just for parsing on the dummy than the ones I actually go fighting with.

 

2. The less smart*ss explanation: I was afraid this would eventually be fixed (though I'd thought that would happen a lot sooner than it actually has :-) and that I would be wasting my precious relic tokens ;-)

 

3. The pathetic e-peen-reason: This would probably put my Watchman DPS back in the Top 5, as none of my parses ever exploited the double SA bug, yeah ^^

 

TLDR: PLZ COULD U DO SO!

Edited November 13, 2013 by Ardarell_Solo

[countpopeula]

I'd strongly favour that, because...

 

1. As explained before, double procs that contradict the tooltip always seemed a bit like cheating to me. Plus I always preffered one BA with the SA to have another offensive cooldown for OPs for better tactical control of encounters. And then I didn't want to use different relics just for parsing on the dummy than the ones I actually go fighting with.

 

2. The less smart*ss explanation: I was afraid this would eventually be fixed (though I'd thought that would happen a lot sooner than it actually has :-) and that I would be wasting my precious relic tokens ;-)

 

3. The pathetic e-peen-reason: This would probably put my Watchman DPS back in the Top 5, as none of my parses ever exploited the double SA bug, yeah ^^

 

TLDR: PLZ COULD U DO SO!

 

You're really overstating the 2x SA relic damage here. Double SA is better than the next relic combination by somewhere between 10-15 power per minute. In before "proofploxthx", you can go fetch the math from the thread yourself, I'm not a dog Xeno's parse up above is kind of proof that relics don't matter as much as people are making them out to. If the 2x SA procced simo every single time, then yeah I'd say they were invariably unbeatable. They start to de-syncronize over a fight though, and you're not getting the bang for your buck you did in the first 2 cycles. It's more spread out, often giving damage boosts to filler rather than priority. The Boundless Ages click does give you more control from an application standpoint, but it gives you a ton less DPS overall unless you are in a fight that sees 100% uptime on the boss while activated and you use it directly on CD. I think something like 5 seconds of missed activation or downtime during activation drops its effectiveness below standard damage proc relics of equal rating, it's probably more like 7-8sec with DF stats. The only places I think Double SA take the absolute show is if the spec has self heals, in which case you get 3 or 4 procs and almost 100% uptime on at least 1 Power Surge. This still holds true with 1 SA, the damage and heal activation are not linked and proc separately. So no actually, broken functionality of SA relics is probably what's putting your parse in the Top 5 rather than detracting from it if you run Anni/WM. If you want, 3 weeks from now when I start playing again I'll run a 10 set of DF SA + KD KT and I'm pretty sure the mean DPS will be within a 1% margin of my archived 2x SA mean. I'm not going to parse for 3600 anymore, **** takes too much time but seeing if the math formulas they cooked up are correct or not is something I've been meaning to get around to since 2.0

 

TL;DR - What relics you use won't change your outlier parses by more than 1% since those are heavily reliant on crit numbers to achieve record DPS. It may alter your mean value for determining which relic combo is best for each fight, but adds factor more heavily there than what relic you choose.

Edited November 13, 2013 by countpopeula

[MKnightRider]

because the devs are looking at the leaderboards and actually listening to what we say.....:PPPPPPP

 

Hey dev, if you see this...fix operative dps. It has to be the least played dps class in the game next to PT and it's meh....and even PT/Vanguard are doing way better than we are. The only thing consistently below us are assassins and they're getting buffed. +5 energy 4 piece set isnt even trying....let's see what else...oh yeah, fix the overwrite bug on Lingering Toxins....stop making us play the lottery with our rotation with Shivs; give us something reliable. mk?

 

Trust me, you will still be ahead of Shadows/Assassins on the dummy after the "buff."

[haksilence]

because the devs are looking at the leaderboards and actually listening to what we say.....:PPPPPPP

 

Hey dev, if you see this...fix operative dps. It has to be the least played dps class in the game next to PT and it's meh....and even PT/Vanguard are doing way better than we are. The only thing consistently below us are assassins and they're getting buffed. +5 energy 4 piece set isnt even trying....let's see what else...oh yeah, fix the overwrite bug on Lingering Toxins....stop making us play the lottery with our rotation with Shivs; give us something reliable. mk?

 

Besides that lingering toxins bug, operatives have no room to complain. Ops and scoundrels are VERY solid currently. And are above the great majority of people. Shadows and guardians have the short end under ops easily. This"buff" to shafted might be something like 5-20 extras dps... far from balancing

[Transmet]

Ops and scoundrels are VERY solid currently. And are above the great majority of people.

 

You're talking to me like I don't play one as my main. Rather than having this thread devolve into qq., I'll just say this and then agree with everything else you said....operatives are VERY far from solid and rely heavily on 60% procs every 10 seconds that often dont come at the right moments before orbitals or other upswing moments. The 4 set needs redesign (is an outright joke). Operative single target dps isn't great by any means. Our strength comes in multiple target encounters like Bestia. Operatives are very few in number in progressive op groups compared to the 'great majority' you refer to. I think the class would be a little more attractive if it had some stability given its complex rotation and a better 4set. It's a lot of work to be churning out 'meh' dps.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Transmet
asdasda

[LordKantner]

Does double SA still work? if so what 2 forms?

[dakisback]

You're talking to me like I don't play one as my main. Rather than having this thread devolve into qq., I'll just say this and then agree with everything else you said....operatives are VERY far from solid and rely heavily on 60% procs every 10 seconds that often dont come at the right moments before orbitals or other upswing moments. The 4 set needs redesign (is an outright joke). Operative single target dps isn't great by any means. Our strength comes in multiple target encounters like Bestia. Operatives are very few in number in progressive op groups compared to the 'great majority' you refer to. I think the class would be a little more attractive if it had some stability given its complex rotation and a better 4set. It's a lot of work to be churning out 'meh' dps.

 

But we can heal to full.

[RynZelara]

But we can heal to full.

 

/win thread

[xAyahuaskax]

Hexing - Mercenary - Pyro - 2/8/36 - 3418.03

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/492704/time/1384391577/1384391882/0/Overview

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/774d6c99-9acb-462f-962c-05501026db17

[thejollygreenone]

Trust me, you will still be ahead of Shadows/Assassins on the dummy after the "buff."

 

^this.

[Transmet]

Noire

 

3424.53 dps (3647.12, i think)

 

Lethality Operative 3/7/36

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/493154/time/1384434198/1384434507/0/Damage+Dealt

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/9b9a1355-4d8e-45ef-bcfc-7a9f327fd620

 

got the MH finally and switched to BA/SA relics. 72 enhancements on most of my armor and no kell dragon gear.

the parse was avg RNG. no big crits or crit % on any given ability.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Transmet

[Ardarell_Solo]

You're really overstating the 2x SA relic damage here. Double SA is better than the next relic combination by somewhere between 10-15 power per minute. In before "proofploxthx", you can go fetch the math from the thread yourself, I'm not a dog Xeno's parse up above is kind of proof that relics don't matter as much as people are making them out to. If the 2x SA procced simo every single time, then yeah I'd say they were invariably unbeatable. They start to de-syncronize over a fight though, and you're not getting the bang for your buck you did in the first 2 cycles. It's more spread out, often giving damage boosts to filler rather than priority. The Boundless Ages click does give you more control from an application standpoint, but it gives you a ton less DPS overall unless you are in a fight that sees 100% uptime on the boss while activated and you use it directly on CD. I think something like 5 seconds of missed activation or downtime during activation drops its effectiveness below standard damage proc relics of equal rating, it's probably more like 7-8sec with DF stats. The only places I think Double SA take the absolute show is if the spec has self heals, in which case you get 3 or 4 procs and almost 100% uptime on at least 1 Power Surge. This still holds true with 1 SA, the damage and heal activation are not linked and proc separately. So no actually, broken functionality of SA relics is probably what's putting your parse in the Top 5 rather than detracting from it if you run Anni/WM. If you want, 3 weeks from now when I start playing again I'll run a 10 set of DF SA + KD KT and I'm pretty sure the mean DPS will be within a 1% margin of my archived 2x SA mean. I'm not going to parse for 3600 anymore, **** takes too much time but seeing if the math formulas they cooked up are correct or not is something I've been meaning to get around to since 2.0

 

TL;DR - What relics you use won't change your outlier parses by more than 1% since those are heavily reliant on crit numbers to achieve record DPS. It may alter your mean value for determining which relic combo is best for each fight, but adds factor more heavily there than what relic you choose.

 

I agree with pretty much everything you're saying, difference in DPS may not be as high as some think, but if Falver still choses to archive the parses using Double SA, I'd be back in Top 5 at least as long as the same people don't submit new parses. Sweet enough for me ;-)

 

I'm fully aware that sustained DPS with BA is inferior, but, and that's why I use it: During its 30 second activation time the DPS you are pulling in that 30 secs is unrivaled (combined with SA). As I'm not in one of the top progress guilds this can make the difference between downing a boss or not by meeting the requirement of burn phases like Olok NiM hard droid rows or (with less gear in the first IDs) Calphayus' Crystals/Adds, DPS challenge with Raptus, burning Styrak and Brontes in Council Fight or killing droids before Brontes' laser has them explode.

 

If I were swimming in relic tokens (which I'm not, for the exact same reasons) I'd probably equip a consistent DPS relic for mindlessly-hacking-away-at-a-boss-type encounters like Nefra.

 

TLDR: Need DPS spikes on request to even down bosses for better gear, must therefore use BA and can't afford multpiple relics to parse with them, therefore happy with brief return to Top 5 when Double SA parses are archived :-)