DPS: What are the expected numbers per gear rating?

[SpoeMeister]

Hi

 

I just started using Parsec to tell me how much DPS I'm doing while in combat. But I have a silly question though: What DPS are usually expected to get per gear rating?

 

For example: I play Sorc DPS (full lightning). I am in a mixture of 66 and 69 augmented without set bonuses. When I am attacking a boss, I usually reach between 1300 and 1600 DPS (depends on how much I have to move).

 

My Main Hand and Off hand are still 66 because I had bad luck rolling for 69 items. I'm gathering up comms to get the 69 Off hand.

 

The rotation I use is the one from Noxxic.

 

If you could provide me with numbers to aim for and possible tips on how to get it, I would be most grateful.

 

BONUS QUESTION: I've noticed on Styrak that I had a lot of attacks being resisted. My force accuracy is 104%. Does it have anything to do with that?

 

Thanks in advance

[wainot-keel]

I don't know what are the expected numbers for each gear rating, but 2 things.

 

First, don't use noxxic. It's terrible. For gearing, builds and rotations use swtor forums

 

Second, yes, since 2.0 tech/force can be resisted now so all dps classes need to have accuracy. Pre 2.0, Sorcs could get away without any. 104 % force acc seems low. I think you won't get to 100% with 66s and 69s. Between enhancements and implants/ earpiece I'd say no more than 6 or 7 of them for acc (or your other stats will be too low)

 

EDIT:

 

Check this guide for sorc dps.

[SpoeMeister]

Thank you for the advice. I will definitely check that guide.

[cxten]

I played around with a very well layed out spreadsheet here to see what difference gear makes. The spreadsheet is for a watchman sentinel, but you'd expect roughly the same benefit from gear for any decent dps class/spec.

 

I get that the dps difference on the dummy between full 66 (with say a partisan and a dread guard relic) and full 72 is roughly 380. (Roughly 75 for the mainhand, 50 for the offhand, 20 per relic, 7-8 per mod/enhancement, 5 per armoring.) If you're weren't augmented, that would be roughly 12 dps per augment, or almost 170 for the whole set.

 

A very solid dps for a sage in full 72 on the dummy is 2800. Let's say you shoot for 2600 instead to start. Then you're looking at shooting for 2200 on the dummy in your current gear. On Styrak, the difference in dps on the dummy and on the boss is about 3200 vs 2600 for the top sage (on nightmare mode, in nearly full 75 I think) if you look in the nightmare parse record thread. That's nearly 20% lower. So you're looking at maybe 1750 as target dps on Styrak (with about 200 higher being very solid dps in fully augmented 66 gear).

 

If about half your non-MH/OH gear is 69 instead, maybe add around 125 to the dummy target and 100 to the Styrak target.

 

All of this assumes your 66/69 gear is optimized (i.e. high power mods, low endurance enhancements).

 

-----

 

For a lightning sorc, parsing on the dummy helps quite a bit to make sure you're not pausing between channels at all and to make sure you're using the procs correcty. Either of these can be the source of significant dps loss. I parsed (on the dummy) a bit of TK sage (not what I usually play) and was initially disappointed in my numbers but saw rapid improvement when I focused on those two things. As a poster above said, read the forums for rotation advice instead of noxxic. There's a very good thread by nibbon on sage dps.

 

For a boss fight, there are many other factors that can increase your dps as well, such as knowing when to use cooldowns, when to move, where to stand, where the next target will spawn, etc, to maximize dps.

 

So your numbers don't sound so bad considering both of those sources for improvement (as well as the third source, gear).

[SpoeMeister]

I played around with a very well layed out spreadsheet here to see what difference gear makes. The spreadsheet is for a watchman sentinel, but you'd expect roughly the same benefit from gear for any decent dps class/spec.

 

I get that the dps difference on the dummy between full 66 (with say a partisan and a dread guard relic) and full 72 is roughly 380. (Roughly 75 for the mainhand, 50 for the offhand, 20 per relic, 7-8 per mod/enhancement, 5 per armoring.) If you're weren't augmented, that would be roughly 12 dps per augment, or almost 170 for the whole set.

 

A very solid dps for a sage in full 72 on the dummy is 2800. Let's say you shoot for 2600 instead to start. Then you're looking at shooting for 2200 on the dummy in your current gear. On Styrak, the difference in dps on the dummy and on the boss is about 3200 vs 2600 for the top sage (on nightmare mode, in nearly full 75 I think) if you look in the nightmare parse record thread. That's nearly 20% lower. So you're looking at maybe 1750 as target dps on Styrak (with about 200 higher being very solid dps in fully augmented 66 gear).

 

If about half your non-MH/OH gear is 69 instead, maybe add around 125 to the dummy target and 100 to the Styrak target.

 

All of this assumes your 66/69 gear is optimized (i.e. high power mods, low endurance enhancements).

 

-----

 

For a lightning sorc, parsing on the dummy helps quite a bit to make sure you're not pausing between channels at all and to make sure you're using the procs correcty. Either of these can be the source of significant dps loss. I parsed (on the dummy) a bit of TK sage (not what I usually play) and was initially disappointed in my numbers but saw rapid improvement when I focused on those two things. As a poster above said, read the forums for rotation advice instead of noxxic. There's a very good thread by nibbon on sage dps.

 

For a boss fight, there are many other factors that can increase your dps as well, such as knowing when to use cooldowns, when to move, where to stand, where the next target will spawn, etc, to maximize dps.

 

So your numbers don't sound so bad considering both of those sources for improvement (as well as the third source, gear).

 

Thanks for the useful information. I have been using that thread to improve my sentinel gameplay. It has very useful information!

 

At the moment I've been using this rotation:

 

Opener

1. Crushing Darkness

2. Affliction

3. Thundering Blast

 

From there on I use the following priority list. It doesn't have Lightning Strike in it for the following reason: I intend to use lightning strike every 3 seconds, give or take (ie.: either 2 instants or an instant and a cast). This maintains Subversion. So here's the priority list

 

1. Affliction

2. Chain Lightning (procced)

3. Force Lightning (procced)

4. Thundering Blast

5. Crushing Darkness

6. Shock

 

Is this correct? Or should I place Thundering Blast second in the list? I can't really put reliable numbers on the board yet because I'm still in the process of learning the procs and reacting accordingly.

[Snarkasms]

I think you might be using Crushing Darkness too much. It's entirely possible I'm doing it wrong, and if so, somebody will come along and correct me, but I only use Crushing Darkness/Mind Crush to open the fight - after that, it's essentially all (pardon if my sorc skill names are wrong) Lightning Strike/Disturbance, Chain Lightning/Telekinetic Wave on proc, Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw on proc, and refreshing Affliction/Weaken Mind when it's about to fall off so I can use Thundering Blast/Turbulence on cooldown.

 

Crushing Darkness/Mind Crush just takes too much time to cast in a rotation that's already cast-heavy. I believe you'll get better DPS out of simply excluding it from your rotation except in the opener.

 

If I'm wrong, pretty please somebody correct me, because I've been meaning to parse it and haven't gotten the time yet.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Snarkasms

[SpoeMeister]

I think you might be using Crushing Darkness too much. It's entirely possible I'm doing it wrong, and if so, somebody will come along and correct me, but I only use Crushing Darkness/Mind Crush to open the fight - after that, it's essentially all (pardon if my sorc skill names are wrong) Lightning Strike/Disturbance, Chain Lightning/Telekinetic Wave on proc, Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw on proc, and refreshing Affliction/Weaken Mind when it's about to fall off so I can use Thundering Blast/Turbulence on cooldown.

 

Crushing Darkness/Mind Crush just takes too much time to cast in a rotation that's already cast-heavy. I believe you'll get better DPS out of simply excluding it from your rotation except in the opener.

 

If I'm wrong, pretty please somebody correct me, because I've been meaning to parse it and haven't gotten the time yet.

 

My sorc friend shares your feeling, but I feel that I'd otherwise be wasting talent points. Crushing Darkness has a 30% chance to tick twice. Every time this happens, The cooldown on Polarity Shift is automatically lowered by 1 second and I get a 2% bonus boost every time it happens... I know Chain Lightning does this as well, but for 6 seconds (4 Lightning Strikes) it can get added while I'm doing other things.

 

Clarification on this by more experienced Sorcs would be very helpful indeed.

[cxten]

From nibbon's thread:

 

Lightning

keep AF up, CD off cooldown, Thundering Blast off cooldown, CL off proc, FL on proc, fill with LS. It is usually best to start with your CD and time the cast time with when your tank is about to engage.

 

For cooldowns - tougher to say, the more often, the better, typically, like with madness. However, you want your force crit to hit on something that isn't already autocritting - so I'd say after your thundering blast and hopefully on a CL / FL proc.

 

Some advice from Kindran:

Quote: Originally Posted by Kindran

Do not sit and wait for an ability. If Thundering Black or Crushing Darkness have 1sec left then cast a Lightning Strike.

 

1) Always make sure Affliction is up and do not clip it

2) Don't stop casting

3) If Affliction has 1-2 seconds left and Thudnering Blast comes up, use Lightning Strike > Affliction > Thundering Blast

4) Use procs when you can't use Thundering Blast or Crushing Darkness

 

One extra thing I wanted to add to this. You should only use Chain Lightning or Force Lightning with their procs when you would be casting Lightning Strike. If you use one of these when you can cast Thundering Blast or Crushing Darkness instead it will be a dps loss. You do not have to use the procs just as you get them.

 

The reason for this is because you are losing potential hits on Thundering Blast and Crushing Darkness when you don't use them on cooldown, but the only time you lose potential hits for CL and FL is when you lose the proc or it gets overwritten. This will not happen for a guaranteed 10 seconds minimum from when they procced. So within this time find a spot where you would cast Lightning Strike and replace it with the procs.

 

So your priority list is a bit upside down. Crushing darkness is very good dps.

[g_land]

Lightning Strike/Disturbance should be spammed until others are off cd or affliction is falling off boss, dont clip your affliction dots and use your force lightning/chain lightning with procs only. Shock should be used when you have to move. Nibbons guide is excellent! and ktap is great for how to forgo thundering blast if your affliction has less than one second remaining on target, use every gcd even if something else falls behind momentarily.

 

Also, dps seems to move up about 150-200 dps per tier depending on the player

Edited November 8, 2013 by g_land

[Emperor-Norton]

Assuming you are in 55 endgame gear and main stat augmented, your expected DPS should scale pretty closely with your main stat before any boost from your skill tree.

[verfallen]

Only reason you might want to delay a Crushing Darkness is if there is a lot of AoE going on and you expect it to stop within the next few seconds or you'll be able to bubble in the next few seconds. Otherwise its on cooldown. Also lightning strike for lightning is better damage than shock, and has proc you want associated. Only reason to use shock is doing damage while forced to move.

 

Your dps seems a bit low for full 66. It should be closer to 2k on dummy, and on some FP boss it seems to increase a lot for me (Gil, the bonus boss of Mando Raiders always give me around 3k dps in 72 for some reason)

[SpoeMeister]

Yeah, for some reason, Sorc DPS and me isn't working out :-(

 

I've leveled a Sniper to 55 and they are both in the same gear rating (72/78 stock items). With the sorc I can barely hit 2100 DPS while on the Sniper I can reliably reach 2800 DPS in Marksmanship.

[WooduckAUS]

Yeah, for some reason, Sorc DPS and me isn't working out :-(

 

Thats a shame. I've got a slinger and have just recently turned my sage healer into a TK dps machine AND AM HAVING A TONNE OF FUN!

 

Love the playstyle and the animations. Cross between dots, range blasting and proc watching. Its good fun!

 

4 pc set bonus is very important for sage/sorc dps, much more so than with your sniper/slinger. At a guess, i'd say all 4 pieces is around an extra 200+ dps for the sage/sorc. Had saying that, i know his dps levels will never reach that of the slinger. My slinger is still in 72's + 78 OH, hitting 3100 dps on the dummy. My sage, i took out the 78 amorings and switched them with 69/72's for the set bonus and got an increase. He probably has a few 78 mods with a 78 OH, rest is 72's and he is holding around 2950 on the dummy.

 

Once you start comparing them in ops, the gap becomes even more obvious becuase of the lack of pushback protection compared to the slinger but that is another story......

 

Either way, if you enjoy the playstyle of the sage/sorc, stick with it. Once you get it, IMO, its a tonne of fun.

 

ps. EVERYONE has a slinger/sniper, be different and have some fun!! Both can complete endgame content. Sage just needs a little more effort.

[cs_zoltan]

My slinger is still in 72's + 78 OH, hitting 3100 dps on the dummy. My sage, i took out the 78 amorings and switched them with 69/72's for the set bonus and got an increase. He probably has a few 78 mods with a 78 OH, rest is 72's and he is holding around 2950 on the dummy.

 

Once you start comparing them in ops, the gap becomes even more obvious becuase of the lack of pushback protection compared to the slinger but that is another story......

 

Actually Sage has a higher dps scalar than slingers. I'm not sure what spec your slinger is, but if it's sharpshooter then your slinger's boss dps is 3171, and the TK Sage dps is 3165. Not that far now, is it?

 

Boss DPS scalars

[WooduckAUS]

Actually Sage has a higher dps scalar than slingers. I'm not sure what spec your slinger is, but if it's sharpshooter then your slinger's boss dps is 3171, and the TK Sage dps is 3165. Not that far now, is it?

 

Boss DPS scalars

 

This is true and yes my slinger is a SS/hybrid if fight calls for it but what i meant was, during certain phases in most boss mechanics, my sage seems to be effected a lot more by aoe/boss damage/pushback on my cast abilities. Especially if you have to cast MC. Obviously you can re-adjust on the fly but you are still altering your max dps rotation to do so.

 

Slingers don't have this problem. 1 less thing for them to worry about = easier to achieve max dps on boss fights.

 

Also, does that scaler take into account the fact that slingers won't need to apply armour debuff in most raids, due to other classes doing so as part of their normal rotation. This would give them an extra GCD every 45s and for a slinger that could be an extra 3-8k damage..... thats and extra 100dps give or take.....

Edited November 13, 2013 by WooduckAUS

[cs_zoltan]

This is true and yes my slinger is a SS/hybrid if fight calls for it but what i meant was, during certain phases in most boss mechanics, my sage seems to be effected a lot more by aoe/boss damage/pushback on my cast abilities. Especially if you have to cast MC. Obviously you can re-adjust on the fly but you are still altering your max dps rotation to do so.

 

Slingers don't have this problem. 1 less thing for them to worry about = easier to achieve max dps on boss fights.

Dev's said they gona look into pushbacks so let's hope it will get better

Also, does that scaler take into account the fact that slingers won't need to apply armour debuff in most raids, due to other classes doing so as part of their normal rotation. This would give them an extra GCD every 45s and for a slinger that could be an extra 3-8k damage..... thats and extra 100dps give or take.....

Yes it's accounted for. Each spec has the detailed math behind the scalar in that thread

[WooduckAUS]

Dev's said they gona look into pushbacks so let's hope it will get better

 

I hope they do. I can't see why 1 ranged class is completely unaffected and the other 2 have to compete with it..... If they did fix it, sages/sorcs would be so much fun. Nothing is more frustrating than watching ALL your casts taking 3 steps forward and then 1 step back as you are trying to melt down a boss.....

[MGNMTTRN]

Actually Sage has a higher dps scalar than slingers. I'm not sure what spec your slinger is, but if it's sharpshooter then your slinger's boss dps is 3171, and the TK Sage dps is 3165. Not that far now, is it?

 

Boss DPS scalars

Nope. The original post of that thread used the wrong math. For an infinitely better ranking of live parses, use Boarder's data collection.