Taking their Guild rank, and the game, too seriously....

[branmakmuffin]

Apparently your intellectual prowess allowed you to miss the reference. But i'll forgive you since I seemed to be engaged in a battle of wits against and unarmed opponent.

Speaking to yourself can be taken by some to be a sign of insanity. Attempting to engage yourself in a battle of wits is sure to be regarded as such. But hey, I'm not here to judge. So carry on. Keep me posted on the results.

[ArielaKnight]

Did you even read the OP? According to him, he was not the one who swore. I will grant you we only have his side of the story, however.

 

And this comment:

Are you seriously telling your Guild OFFICER to use their profanity filter?" I responded by pointing out that I wasn't even the one who swore, and reminded them that just because they outrank me in an imaginary hierarchy on a VIDEO GAME, it doesn't make them better than me

 

I have never said that to anyone neither has anyone in my guild. For a person to say that after two days of being in a guild doesn't sound right to me.

 

The reason I can see the officer kicking this person was because of his attitude. The way he should have responded was this:

 

Excuse me? But I was not the one who swore.

 

Left it at that but no he had to include this: Reminded them that just because they outrank me in an imaginarly hierarchy on a Video Game, it doesn't make them better than me.

 

There was no reason to say that. All he should have said was Excuse me? I was not the one swearing and nothing else.

 

It sounds like he was trying to create drama by adding the rest of his comment.

[TUXs]

It's the responsibility of guild leadership to make members aware of unusual rules. "No swearing" is an unusual rule, given how common swearing is in in-game chat. Now maybe someone told him, or maybe no one told him.

 

LOL! Come on bran...it's common sense to NOT swear the first chance you get. I curse like a pig at times, I'm terribly guilty of it...but I do only AFTER I've acquainted myself with the people I'm in front of...not before. No swearing is a social NORM. Deviate all you like...just don't pretend to be offended when society (a guild in this case) shuns you. Nobody needs to educate you on acceptable social behavior...that's what your mom is for.

[Thundernuts]

Speaking to yourself can be taken by some to be a sign of insanity. Attempting to engage yourself in a battle of wits is sure to be regarded as such. But hey, I'm not here to judge. So carry on. Keep me posted on the results.

 

Results are in, you receive a 3/10. The previous post was better, so I expected a response of higher quality. Unfortunately all I got was a wordier "I'm rubber and you're glue" retort. Try and bring your "A" game next time.

[branmakmuffin]

And this comment: [from the OP, IIRC]

Are you seriously telling your Guild OFFICER to use their profanity filter?" I responded by pointing out that I wasn't even the one who swore, and reminded them that just because they outrank me in an imaginary hierarchy on a VIDEO GAME, it doesn't make them better than me

 

I have never said that to anyone neither has anyone in my guild. For a person to say that after two days of being in a guild doesn't sound right to me.

As I said, we only have OP's side of the story.

 

The reason I can see the officer kicking this person was because of his attitude. The way he should have responded was this: Excuse me? But I was not the one who swore.

Was the OP ever told that swearing is against guild rules? Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. If he wasn't, then much of this problem can be laid at the feet of guild leadership. Furthermore, if the officer dressed down the swearing member in open chat, that is a big no-no. Assuming it happened that way, that was just the officer trying to act all officerish. Again assuming it happened that way, this is how the officer should have handled it: PM the swearer and then post a message to guild chat along the lines of "Just a reminder that this is a profanity-free guild." Now the officer's (assumed) bad behavior does not excuse any bad behavior on the OP's part, but there is a good chance that the whole incident could have been avoided had the officer not wanted to be so "parental" with the open chat message to the swearer. If anyone created drama first, it was the officer. But two wrongs don't make a right and "He did it first" is not a very compelling excuse.

Edited September 19, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[wainot-keel]

These responses are just hilarious to me.

 

Let's just lay out the story in steps:

1. OP joins a guild based on good interactions with a few of the members.

2. Two days later, another guildie swears in guild chat.

3. An officer points out that swearing is not permitted.

4. OP offers a suggestion that officer turn on the profanity filter.

5. OP receives attitude from the officer immediately (at least according to his story).

6. OP responds to that attitude in kind.

7. OP is kicked.

 

A couple of points that everyone seems to have missed or ignored:

1. OP may not have been aware of the no profanity rule. He was pretty much brand new to the guild. It's possible that he legitimately didn't know about the rule.

2. He may not have known that the offended party was an officer.

3. The OFFICER initiated the attitude. Rather than calmly and politely explaining to a brand new guild member that the guild rule is no swearing and that as an officer, he's enforcing the rule, he gets snarky with the "did you just seriously..." line.

 

The way I read the OP's post is exactly how he did, and I can understand why he gave attitude back when he received it. Any good officer would have handled the situation much differently. Not to mention, the officer could have been on an alt. So, even if the OP knew who all the officers were within two days of joining, he may not have known everyone's alts.

 

I just find it funny that everyone jumped down OP's throat for his attitude, but completely overlooked that he was responding to attitude that he received initially. It was bad leadership and people skills on the part of the officer. It may not have warranted the response it received from the OP, but I can certainly understand where the OP is coming from.

 

Or maybe I'm just all alone in not memorizing every rule and officer's name (and alts) within the first two days of joining a guild.

 

What got OP kicked was his terrible attitude in a new group that he doesn't know, a the group that doesn't know him.

We don't know what was the swearing about nor its context. But OP clearly took a side. How ? The worst possible way. The profanity filter probably is there because of some formallity thing that makes it mandatory to be there. But it's utterly worthless. It does nothing against the swearing. "**** off" it's exactly the same as the full four lettered word. Simple as that.

Now, when someone is upset by swearing, if you tell them " turn on profanity" that bottom lines to "suck it up, deal with it" Suggesting such an obvious and worthless feature achieves that greatly. Bad luck for OP, he exercised his dismissive comment at an officer. This officer reacted to such comment, and OP did not back down, he went further, and tried to demean the guild he just joined.

Awful attitude. That's what got him kicked.

[jorill]

Its not unreasonable for guilds to want to keep swearing to a minimum. Ive seen plenty of guilds like that. It could of been a failure of the guild not to let people know the rules. Thats why having a website helps. At least you can post rules of conduct so people know.

 

Personally its not how i would handle the situation. I would express to the new person that guild chat is pg or pg-13 and if they have an issue with that maybe they want to look for a new guild

[Damask_Rose]

For all we know the guild officer did a quick "hey no swearing" or was even teasing the other guild member. The OP wasn't with the guild long enough to know anyone's personality or relationships.

 

Personally, I find "turn on your swear filter" comments come across as pugnacious and not friendly and informative. The follow up comment about taking the game too seriously and not being better than him seems way out of line for what the earlier conversation was and hints at a lot more going on than what the OP decided to share.

[MidichIorian]

Swtor is my first MMO and one of the reasons for that is because of all the bad things people would say about MMO'ers in other games. I always figured that they were exaggerating but that there might be some truth in it, stereotypes are usually not taken completely out of the thin air. So I gave it a shot and could quickly confirm that MMO'ers, in general (that means; exceptions) are the lamest people in the gaming universe. I've treated it as a single player game ever since and every time I, against my better judgement, join a pug for an ops or guild for PvE activities , even when I've actually looked up the guild first, I usually regret it shortly after. Like, where the hell are you people coming from? Back in school I used to hang with the full spectrum of people, everything from the "cool kids" to the people who rather spent a Saturday night at home infront of a video game, but NEVER did I encounter anyone with the same level of whiny push-over behaviour as people in this game and I'm guessing also similar games. Edited September 19, 2013 by MidichIorian

[Arkerus]

So it's weird if someone creates a family friendly environment in their guild? You do realize that when you join a guild, you are joining them, not the other way around. It's like someone applying for a job doing data entry and then getting mad because they hate computers. If you don't like the environment created by a certain guild, go join another. There is nothing wrong or inappropriate about a guild discouraging profanity. I cuss like a sailor, but my get does not want profanity used while on mumble. So guess what, I try like hell not to cuss.

 

My point was I would never join one.

[Arkerus]

LOL! Come on bran...it's common sense to NOT swear the first chance you get. I curse like a pig at times, I'm terribly guilty of it...but I do only AFTER I've acquainted myself with the people I'm in front of...not before. No swearing is a social NORM. Deviate all you like...just don't pretend to be offended when society (a guild in this case) shuns you. Nobody needs to educate you on acceptable social behavior...that's what your mom is for.

 

Social norms are normally dictated by your environmental factors, macro and micro.

[curtkram]

With your attitude I wouldn't even invite you to a guild. The lady you just jumped down her throat for stating she is a guild leader you are 100% off base. She is one of the kindest and giving individuals you would ever see. She has gone out of her way to help us but you see you are so pig headed and think you have a right to tell a guild how they can run their guild. You don't. You didn't build the guild.

 

When a person or person create a guild they have a right to make the rules. You don't like them don't join simple as that.

 

From what the OP said he was wrong by his comments to a guild officer. He had been there two days not long enough to understand the rules but yet he jumps in when someone was told not to use a specific language. If he had a question he had the same responsibility for communicating to the officer. He could have ask the officer in private about the rules instead of coming across as I will do things my way no matter what the guild rules are.

 

He failed as well as not finding out what kind of rules they had in the first place. You can sit here and judge but there are two sides to and from what I read he was just as wrong as you wanting to blame the guild officer.

 

i don't think my comment was off base. it wasn't a personal attack. i don't know the person i was responding to, i was only responding to the isolated comment they made and with respect to the OP's concerns. stuff about them, their personality, and their generosity exist outside of the context i'm working with, so i'm not going to judge you or them poorly since i know i don't have a fair context.

 

what i read into the that comment, with the opening line intended to establish some sort of authority, is that "i am a guild leader and therefore you must respect me." that, in my opinion, is ******** and should be called out as such. now if in normal relations they were to back off that statement and act more like a regular human being that wants to associate with other human beings instead of control them, i would certainly temper my opinion. just saying, it's a harsh introduction that might need to be walked back a bit.

 

of course if your goal in creating a guild is to get a group of minions that will walk the line you set, then i personally wouldn't be a good fit. i'm not going to hero-worship your officer status or your guild leader status, and about the same minute you pull rank on me i will mouth off to either put you back in your place (your place being part of the group, not some sort of high and mighty guild officer) or to earn a proper kicking out of said guild.

 

also, i'm not saying i have a right to run your guild. you want minions or whatever, that's your thing and i'll stay out of it. this is only a perspective of the OP's concerns with respect to getting kicked out of a guild because they questioned the officer. in my view of the narrow situation given, it was the officer that was the problem. if you choose to build a guild with officers like that, who kick out people like the OP (on the assumption that this is the whole story since it's all we have to work with), then your officers are just as bad, but that's your prerogative.

[Bravotwentynine]

First of all if all who wanted to state of respect the hierarchy than the officer before kicking should have consulted all officers and the leader(s). Kicking with out doing that is wrong. I can tell you in other MMO's is a major NO-NO.

 

I know what its like to run a MMO hard core raid guild and keep them all in line. It isn't easy doing it while planning raids and such. For an officer to just up a boot somebody for saying that they would have been put on notice them self's.

 

For the others who stated shut up till you put out numbers in HM's, OPS, or WZ's should also keep quiet. Being in a guild isn't all about numbers and such. Some just do it to be in a guild and not cookie cutter DPS output crap. They are also not their to your foot stool or a lacky.

 

This is why I avoid all these guilds here. Since I came back I ran into 4 guilds on massive power trips. One with a 17 year old officer that was pushing around people like he was king (insert bad word here that starts with a S). I was shocked that other players were letting him do it.

 

Their is no need to be a A hole and be on some massive power trip for being a guild leader or a officer in a MMO game. You want respect well you have to earn and it goes both ways. That is something most of these people in MMO leadership roles don't have and don't follow. They want to rule with a iron fist and use threats of "we will kick if you don't do what I say". I was told that twice here and both times I said F you and de-guilded myself. The other was a leader that every word was a swear word. I don't think he ever said one sentence without multiple swear words in it.

[zachass]

Wow, I certainly didn't post on the forums to cause drama, like I said this my first MMO and I just wanted to know if there were a lot of power trips like this. Also, since the only friend I had that played this game got re-deployed, I don't have anyone else to ask and/or vent to. I do not deny being an *** to the officer after his/her comment, and had I known it was an officer, I probably wouldn't have ever made my "profanity filter" suggestion. Nothing about the way they addressed the other guildie indicated that they might be an officer. No one told me about a no-profanity chat rule, and I ran with a group killing WB's for several hours the night before. There was some casual swearing, nothing hurtful, so I didn't think it should have been a problem when someone swore the next day. As I said, it only bothered me BECAUSE I liked the people so much. It certainly wasn't worth all the drama. I'm sorry I vented in a forum, I really don't have a problem with authority or rules, when they are explained and enforced reasonably. I just don't like it when people have superiority complexes. I definitely admit I could've handled the situation better. Really not worth 12 pages of personal attacks on me and each other. Both sides make valid points.

[Heal-To-Full]

Wow, I certainly didn't post on the forums to cause drama, like I said this my first MMO and I just wanted to know if there were a lot of power trips like this.

Well, now you know.

 

Respecting your guild's policies is a very big thing in MMO. Leadership structure is one of these policies.

If you refuse to acknowledge an officer's authority in guild chat, who is to say you'll respect guild loot rules when raiding? Guild bank policies? As a new member you have to show that you want to fit in and play along.

 

And as to authority....

 

You know pug warzone ops leaders? Thankless job. They get selected pretty much at random, they often aren't the best player in the team, and they don't have any power whatsoever. Can't kick anyone, can't even rearrange the frames. All they have is bold font in ops chat. If the team loses, everyone blames the ops leader; if the team wins, everyone praises the healer; if the ops leader doesn't lead, everyone blames them for not leading.

 

And yet, whenever I'm not the ops leader and the one picked is actually trying to lead - I follow their orders without a moment's hesitation. If I think they're wrong, I suggest my way, but still do what they said. Even if I think they're not making the right call, I'll follow their call. Why do you think am I doing this? Is it because their ops chat messages show up in bold?

[FourStringGroove]

Well Zachass, it sounds like ya stood up for someone you felt was being wronged, and stood up for yourself when someone was talking down to you, regardless of whatever the guild rules are. Sounds pretty self respecting IMO, and that's a good thing, nothing to apologize for.

 

This guild officer sounds like one of those 'toxic boss' types that could have handled the, in my opinion, incredibly petty issue professionally by not power tripping and publicly reprimanding the offending parties, but by sending them a tell reminding them of guild chat policy in a non hostile fashion.

 

Don't let this nonsense sour your game experience either, mate. It's not worth it. There's a lot of guilds out there, and sooner or later you'll find one you'll love and fit in with just fine.

[aeterno]

You don't want to roll with such a hypocritical bunch anyways.

 

We're a family friendly guild, no cussing allowed. Come join us in committing wholesome genocide of indigenous population for achievements in a child friendly environment. Please. Be consistent with your holier than thou standards and quit the video game racket.

[Caelrie]

Rules for guild chat are a good thing. Mine has rules against bashing minorities, gays and women, and everyone is happier for it. The kinds of players who are upset about such a rule wouldn't fit in our guild anyway.

[oaceen]

i feel like a lot of other things have been commented on, but i wanted to comment on something else.

 

it's still possible that the officer could have taken it too seriously, but if that guild had rules in place, you should follow them and be a member of your guild or find another one with rules you agree with.

saying 'turn on the profanity filter if it bothers them that much' comes off very confrontational, but it's also placing the blame on the offended person, not the offender (ie: it's a form of victim-blaming). the profanity filter isn't a license for people to break code of conduct rules, it's so people don't have to see those violations when those rules are broken.

[Gomla]

saying 'turn on the profanity filter if it bothers them that much' comes off very confrontational,

 

The sad thing is, the filter is on by default so they would have to take it off in the first place. If people don't want to see profanity then why take off the filter that blocks it?

 

My kids like to watch All Dogs Go To Heaven.

 

It's a family friendly film and they enjoy it.

 

If I were to take the profanity filter off i'd end up with Reservoir Dogs.

 

Not really the kind of film i'd want my toddlers watching but i'd know what to expect from that film .

 

People not liking profanity turning off the filter is akin to me not liking Brussel Sprouts but eating them anyway. It makes no sense.

[Arenatah]

Sounds like OP got a lesson on the General forums as well.

 

Seriously though, sucks that your first guild wasn't a good fit, OP, and sorry that you had to run into a power trippin' officer. IMHO if a person in authority can't lighten up, they aren't a very good authority figure at all.

 

That's why I run in a guild full of people that shout and swear at each other when we wipe on farm content ;D

[Drimoac]

Taking the OP's story at face value, the guild officer was on a power trip and handled the situation wrong. That being said, that doesn't exonerate the OP from any wrong doing.

 

My guild was stupid enough to make me an officer. We strive to find a balance between keeping a loose and casual atmosphere within the guild and maintaining some degree of structure within the guild.

 

I personally have no problem with a "no profanity" rule, we don't have one, but it's not like we are dropping "F-bombs" every second word.

 

I suggest to the offended person that they turn on the profanity filter if it bothers them that much. In reply the offended person says

 

This response to the officers concerns over profanity is very similar to form users telling people "if you don't like it leave" when expressing concerns over glitches in the game and EA business practices. The people in the forums that take this position are usually trolls who are trying to upset people. Telling someone if it bothers you that much turn on the profanity filter is thoughtless and confrontational and basically a brush off, telling them to deal with it. The OP doesn't get a free pass for his thoughtlessness just because the guild officer was on a power trip. The OP then proceeds to make a bad situation worse by playing the "you think you are better than me" card, escalating the confrontation.

 

Then again, another viewpoint is this: Maybe it wasn't even a "power trip." Perhaps the guild officer just lost his temper when the OP butted in as he was trying to enforce a guild rule.

 

Bottom line, BOTH sides are wrong here.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Drimoac

[oaceen]

The sad thing is, the filter is on by default so they would have to take it off in the first place. If people don't want to see profanity then why take off the filter that blocks it?

 

My kids like to watch All Dogs Go To Heaven.

 

It's a family friendly film and they enjoy it.

 

If I were to take the profanity filter off i'd end up with Reservoir Dogs.

 

Not really the kind of film i'd want my toddlers watching but i'd know what to expect from that film .

 

People not liking profanity turning off the filter is akin to me not liking Brussel Sprouts but eating them anyway. It makes no sense.

 

i'm not sure why you quoted me, because telling someone to turn the profanity filter on (whether it was already on or not) still comes off as being confrontational.

Edited September 20, 2013 by oaceen

[AlaricSevGirl]

The guild officer's responsibility was to go to the guild leader and discuss it first. The guild leader then decides who gets kicked and who does not. We have someone who doesn't like swearing. My guild generally does not curse in guild chat or when we're doing OPs/FPs, but I'd never allow an officer to kick from guild. That is my responsibility solely.

[CrazyOldMystic]

Well op in some guilds they dont like swearing in guild chat because people have kids nearby and what not. That being said I would have to agree the officer in question was way over the top with you. Mostly thats why guilds have rules like that also. Every teenager is got into there head these days making crude jokes, and swearing up a storm somehow makes them an adult. That would be the second reason why guilds have rules like that. Not condoning how you were treated just pointing that out.

 

As for the poster with the assumption it was someone in mommies basement. Bud get your head out of your behind, and look around at the world right now. Allot of people and I mean allot of people are strapped for cash, and cant get the jobs they want even with the education, that puts them further into debt. Friends are moving in with friends, families are moving in with each other just to pay the bills, and have a roof over there head. Times are bad and a blind man can see that. For the next trick the troll accusing me of being one of those people, no I am not. Worked at my job going on eleven years, pay my bills, and pay my rent.