The State Of PvP ( Warzones ) - Brackets Desperately Needed!

[NoxiousAlby]

Also the game is still new moving the 50's to a bracket all by themselves probably wont happen if at all until the game is at least 3 months old

 

Personally for me, i doubt my interest would last that long.

[weezman]

I found that trying to WZ against 40s and 50s is pretty rough sub 25. Once you start getting some of your better abilities at 25+ then it's not so bad. Having said that, I think maybe not 10-20,20-30 etc etc. Maybe more like 10-30, 30-50. The learning curve could be addressed that way too.

 

I'd say brackets are a good idea though, bolstering a Level 10 so they don't get rolled by a 50 isn't a great idea imo.

 

As a funny aside, Inquisitors will look the same in all brackets: Lightning-Lightning-Lightning-Lightning-Lightning.

[ZombieMeerkat]

Dude that is not realistically common. The 50 would've killed you simply for having the ball. So would everyone else on the team. Then they would proceed to slaughter if they wanted to.

 

A low level has nothing to contribute unless they always stick with someone. Which is generally the smart thing to do regardless of level, but it shouldn't be a requirement. especially as a dps.

 

Which is why it's team-based PVP. If you're trying to 1v1 a level 50 as a level 10, then you deserve to get rolled.

 

I have nothing over level 30 (one is close) and I have a blast PVPing with and against the higher levels.

 

Maybe because I'm not standing around QQing in the chat and actually trying to do something about it. You know, for my team.

[Lougait]

it is needed so high levels are not stuck with low levels; it really is not balanced. lack of abilities really makes pvp imbalanced. I usually lose when i have a lot of players in their teen levels on my team.

[AkihiroKytori]

Before 1/4 or more of the population is 45+

non bracketed = "The Game Is Balanced, We Have No Issues, Bracketing Will Break The PvP!, L2P, NooB, ect"

 

After 1/4 or more of the population is 45+

non bracketed = "We are loosing because there are low levels on our team."

 

Attitude seems to be changing...

[hasdrabal]

Being able to succeed in pvp is not something gifted to you upon rolling the character. I takes time and practice. Knowing when to hit that escape, when to retreat, when to go in. Diving headlong just because you see a red name is not always the best idea. As well there is alot of things we have yet to figure out about the classes and such. We have an idea of how they work but nobody i've seen so far has really crunched the numbers.

 

You want to know my most recent discovery? When I started Tor I still had the circle strafe mindset. I found that when I stopped running around like a complete idiot, I actually landed ALOT more abilities then I was when I was running around. It's a good tactic for certain games, but for some reason it seems like its a disadvantage to have to be moved in ToR. Since I stopped moving its been near an automatic win for me against people who try to circle strafe me, guaranteed kill unless they have heals and I do not.

 

My advice to you is forget all this other crap about WoW, Warhammer, EQ, Aion, Rift that you THINK you know about pvp.

 

 

This is the biggest load of crap I have ever read. Stop talking to experienced MMO players like they are children and have no clue about what their experiences have been and how they have drastically changed in the warfronts.

 

Don't insult the community by insinuating it is full of morons who have no clue about how to play a game and because of that fact are complaining that others (like you apparently) are so much better than them. How long have MMO's been out? I am sure not a single person in TOR is not a veteran of MMO's and the PvP involved in them. This game, like many of the rest is falling into the same problem - tiers of gear at max level that have specific PvP only enhancing stats, and no level range in pvp, relying instead upon a woefully inadequate bolstering system to make up for what is the real problem, a huge disparity in levels, gear and skills. YES, it does have a sever impact, to say otherwise is simply being intentionally ignorant of the factual experiences of others.

 

However, everyone who opposes this does so with one argument described and broken down in a number of insulting and rude ways. The argument is two fold:

 

1) I'm max level (or close to it) and only group with max level guildies/friends and we always win so I love it. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with it because what you are saying is a myth, I've never experienced it.

 

2) You're just a noob, have no understanding of how to play your class, of pvp or tactics, are a giant baby and can't handle it so you should just go cry somewhere else because we don't care and it's fine how it is because once again refer to fold 1 above.

 

To all of you, the vast majority of TOR players say grow up, there is a problem with PvP how it is, facts are facts and we are seeking to have the experience of warfronts improve, and not remain archaic, limited upon pre-mades and level disparities. I remember reading from the dev team they were going to have pre-mades in their own warfronts; that their would be tiers, and a proper matching system however, that seems to have fallen out of the plans since development. Sorry to see that be the case.

 

The entire point that seems to be missed in this argument is the fun factor. Warfronts are not fun as they exist now, period. Getting rolled over by the opposing team constantly simply due to the disparities listed above becomes maddening for even the most patient person. Everyone knows tactics, who to focus on when you see them, how to engage, how to be effective at your given role, but ALL of that becomes a moot point when a single level 50 healer can out heal the 5 DPS trying to kill him while they quickly get facerolled by his teammates. Sorry, that's not how the game is intended to be experienced, I'm tired of being in situations where your only option is to just run down from spawn to get smashed over and over by the mob of red waiting for you. That has happened far to much for any honest balance to exist in the current system. You're only hope is to have that group of 4 level 40+'s that group up for warfronts over and over to end up on your team, because they are a balanced group of ranged, heals and melee dps that literally controls the game play. Without them, you basically become cannon fodder.

 

When the game first released, and most people were not 30+ the warfronts were fun and competitive where the chance of wining DID come down to your skills with your player and your teammates, but there is no skill witnessing over and over again a group of lower level players spamming their highest hitting abilities on a level 50 healer (trying to implement tactical target selection) to watch the 50 solo heal back to full over and over again as you do it, or even worse wipe out the 5 attackers while their lvl 50 buddy solo heals them. That's what the level/gear/skill disparities cause. Get on a team with a low level healer and that guy is dead in 2 secs because he has 1-2 heals at his disposal, that take forever to cast due to lack of advanced skill development.

 

Putting people in warfronts who have the best PvP gear in game, all their skills and a full developed advanced tree and the huge benefits that offers against significantly lower level players who lack all of that is just poor design - period. Logistically, developmentally, intellectually and rationally you cannot possibly say otherwise and the effects of this poor design are being stressed by your community.

 

Please, repair the warfronts, they are becoming pointless for anyone not close to max level. If not for the gear benefits I really wouldn't bother with them anymore, but unfortunately the gear is much faster means to successful flashpoints and operations.

Edited January 4, 2012 by hasdrabal

[AdrianRayn]

PvP having brackets was about the only thing I enjoyed about WoW. I'd like to see it here. D:

[mvaillette]

I know plenty of geared 50s who are enjoying pounding on low levels. They don't want bracketing. I also know plenty of 40+s who ***** out level 10-30s for being in "their" warzone and making them lose.

 

What a great pvp experience.

 

Whether you like it or not, brackets are happening.

[Wheldrake]

I dont know I guess I have a bad attitude about this bracket thing.

 

Dont take this the wrong way. I believe anyone should be able to do what they want to do, but any level 10 that gets into a warzone and complains should just be taken out and shot. When I was level 10. I was just happy that I could pvp, and get such good xp even when we lost. I quickly realized that pvp'ing at level 10 wasnt helping me much because I didnt yet have my class defining abilites. I tried to add value where I could and did get some wins here and there. I was surprised that my team mates were not upset that i had joined at such a low level which probably contributed greatly to why we lost more often. As I look around today I see lots of lowbies putting the hurt on higher levels, and have a really hard time understaning the mentality that wants to restrict the level 50's from PVP.

 

Every time a match was over another started. This would occur between the hours of roughly 8am until 4am that night. So even if I wasn contributing to my team losing at times we were getting craploads of xp and money and commendations for fighting at all.

 

As a beta tester for several months I had to cope with always fighting full lvl 50 Sith premades. We rarely won, and most of you would have rage quit the game because it was THAT frustrating. Now I am better at PVP then I would be otherwise. Plus I know my class. I have a lot of dirty tricks up my sleve from experience, and if you dumb down the difficulty level a little you will not learn these things and forget about world PVP youd have no idea what you were in for if you had never been involved with higher levels....

 

I have been taken down many times by my nemesis class who may be upwards of 25 or more levels lower than me so I know that someone that out levels you isnt totally invincible. This adds challenge to the warzones. I even feel the bite of going up against a lvl 50 premade. That can be hard, and sometimes is very difficult to win, but understand that they are not just level 50. They are probably using Vent, and have been fighting together for a very long time. Communication and coordination is seriouly lacking on the republic side. Prime example. In alderaan everyone insisted on fighting in the middle while the sith to the left and right consoles and held them. You can tell someone stay out of the middle go right or left, and they go to the middle because they want kills, and high damage numbers, and end up dead. No one except maybe a 50 shadow/assassin/Smuggler/Operative can run around alone and expect to survive an encounter with the other team. People do this all the time. No coordination, no communication, no concern for the rules, no patience to guard an area to keep it from getting captured... respawn and run right back into the grinder alone and are upset because they die. Removing level 50's isnt going to change this. What ever the top bracket is will own you just the same. Or wose yet, you will rarely get to PVP at all because everyone at your level is concentrating on leveling up.

 

Based on this idea I may just PVP the rest of the way to 50 because it may be unlikely that I will be able to get into a match in less than 60 seconds after queueing up.

 

In all fairness... the pvp currency should change. if we go brackets. I dont think you should be able to work on buying level 50 gear starting at level 10 if you are going to be bracketed you should be able to buy that brackets gear with that currency. The currency should change per bracket.... Think about it. You will be required to start completely over at lvl 50 to get your lvl 50 pvp gear.... Whereas you could start buying pieces when and using them under the current rules as soon as you hit 50, and this effort could come from something you did when you were level 10 , 20 or 30

[AkihiroKytori]

Well Bioware has confirmed that they are putting in the level 50 bracket. Hopefully this brings alot more balance into the warzone PvP. We shall see, until then have fun folks ^_^

[Tylladorian]

I agree with this thread, I am so sick of running up against ppl that are out leveling me so much that I have no chance AT all to beat them in a 1v1 fight. I am personally letting my subscription run out because this game pisses me off, it is slow paced for pve and the pvp is horrible from being out ranked

[Eszi]

I agree with this thread, I am so sick of running up against ppl that are out leveling me so much that I have no chance AT all to beat them in a 1v1 fight. I am personally letting my subscription run out because this game pisses me off, it is slow paced for pve and the pvp is horrible from being out ranked

 

lol necro

[filipesantana]

Let me start off by saying that I enjoy the Warzone PvP tremendously in SWTOR part of the time.

 

There are issues I see with the Warzone PvP and I know I am not alone. Take a quick look at how many threads there are addressing the issue of bolstering, bracketing, looking at the massive bonuses people gain from gear and abilities completely negating stat bolstering, ect.

 

I know there are those who will say there is nothing wrong with Warzone PvP but let me give you a different perspective. The game opens Warzone PvP up for you at level 10, at level 10 you have crap gear almost all of the time, you have very few abilities and have just picked your specialization. You are at many disadvantages with players 10+ levels higher than you, just to name a few:

 

1. You don't have the same experience with the character/class as someone 10+ levels than you
   
2. Your gear bonuses will be much less than someone 10+ levels than you ( Even if you have the best gear for your level )
   
3. You are severely limited on abilities compared to someone 10+ levels than you
   

 

Of course you need to gain experience at Warzone PvP with your toon, and until you do you wont be the best player, however you are severely hampered by gear and abilities.

 

Now, two or three people out of the enemy team being 10+ levels higher than you is difficult but can be a nice challenge. However, when the average level of the entire enemy team is 10-20+ that of your team. You get rolled and its pointless. Why make a VERY fun element of the game a constant frustration?

 

Bracketing

Bracketing can be a useful tool because:

1. It keeps players with roughly the same range of abilities and or gear will be able to play together
   
2. It removes the massive amount of frustration a level 10 or level 20 feels when trying to play a round of Warzone PvP
   
3. It keeps people who are more experienced together while allowing those who have limited experience to learn and get better
   
4. A level 50 ganking a level 12 is not elite, its pointless
   
5. It will make more people prone to playing Warzone PvP
   
6. It will actually be a consistently playable element of the game for all level/experience levels.
   

 

Now, for those of you who think it is perfect as it is. Go roll a new toon, take it to level 15, and go join a Warzone PvP match without bringing level 40+ guild mates with you. See how balanced it really is.

 

I love SWTOR, I am a consistent fan of bioware products, however this element of SWTOR should most definitely be revamped and brackets should be a serious consideration. If it isn't, you are going to have a small group of people playing Warzone PvP, and it is going to be a wasted element. From the standpoint of a community member, I would love to see as many people jump into warzones as possible, it means more matches and means more Warzone PvP fun!

 

I am going to link below a round of huttball I played with friends, your going to see what a match of level 20-30's can do vs a team of 40-50's. You can think its because we suck, but before level 40+'s were in the same matches with us, it was fairly balanced on wins / losses for either side.

 

 

http://www.tave-atsvara.com/images/tor/Screenshot_2011-12-21_22_52_51_896737.jpg

 

Take a look. Its nonsense.

 

 

wrong...u jsut need to understand how the bolster sistem works.

The only correct thing u said was about the abilities/talents diference..btu that afects some classes more then others...a lvl 12 gunslinger with optimal gear will destroy people if no one notices him...

 

IF u have optimal gear at ur level u will have top hp/damage....now u clearly dont know how to get top gear or else you would have figured how the bolster works......my sage is lvl 33 and i have had more hp then most people (around 13500) since lvl 20...never cganging..why?because i have full orange gear that i update with purple ARMORING mods every 2 lvls...armoring gives you item lvl...item lvl is WHAT SCALES with bolster..damage scales from the hilt/barrel on weps..

 

 

edit: warzones 10-49 are more then fine..actualy after lvl 20 no one has an xcuse to suck *** if u know how tog et optimal gear...if u have 11k hp or below ur gear is terribad,have that has a self rule!!

brackets would make it boring..and the queues would take even longer...so...no!

Edited June 1, 2012 by filipesantana