If Bioware spent one whole patch on fixing ability delay...

[branmakmuffin]

I have no idea what point you're trying to get across. Why is it wrong to ask for an improvement in basic gameplay? I paid for the game and paid for the sub.

Nothing wrong with it. Also nothing wrong with quitting should you not like the game well enough to keep paying for it. And hey, if impotently spitting into the wind on the forums spins your propeller, go for it.

 

And re: the OP topic, it waste of time on a very minor issue.

Edited September 15, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[ObiWanJabroni]

I mean all ability delay: combat, dismounting, player quest actions, you name it. If they could fix this in one patch (forget new content), would you guys be happy with it?

 

I know it frustrates the heck out of me when you have that "lag time" before death, because the ability you clicked got delayed by 1-2 sec.

 

I'd be so happy that I'll actually forgive them missing TWO patches.

[Toweleeeie]

Devs are aware of the issues and have no ideas how to fix it let alone reproduce it in house so yeah... Never getting fixed.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6645948&postcount=25

[GalacticKegger]

If Bioware spent one whole patch on fixing ability delay ... then it would get screwed up in short order courtesy of a line of code that needed tweaking somewhere else in the next test patch. Trade-offs are just how software development works.

 

Axiom: "There comes a time in every project when it is necessary to shoot the engineers and get on with production." I wear my SJSU bullet-riddled Cardigan proudly.

Edited September 16, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[Blackardin]

I'm commenting on the premise of the OP title.

 

What the OP suggests is that the developers STOP doing everything else and work on ability delay ( which yes, ultimately needs fixed).

 

What I am telling you is that game development doesn't work that way. Not everyone has the same set of skills nor do they ever look at portions of the game or code that they have nothing to do with. You have modeler a, map designers, class balance designers, server code maintenance, client maintenance, animation specialists. Its all specialized and normally these people are organized into cross functional teams.

 

Joe Bob the modeler has NOTHING to do with ability delays. He just fixes and creates models. Asking him to STOP making content because of the ability delay is absurd and a terrible waste of time.

 

Its not a assembly line. The teams don't stop making content because one issue is still open.

 

Get it?

 

Look, I don't know why ability delay doesn't work but asking for a big patch to just fix bug issues is not realistic nor should you ever expect unless bio ware specifically says it is. They might from time to time make small bug fixes but the modelers and designers don't stop working on their content.

 

....and perhaps you should learn a thing or two about how business operates before regurgitating misnomers while displaying such pomposity as to infer they are original thoughts based on experience or knowledge.

 

Its called redistribution of resources, has nothing to do with assigned tasks of individuals and everything to do with budgets and finance.....and yes they can redistribute said resources for short term project completion.

[Aries_cz]

Devs are aware of the issues and have no ideas how to fix it let alone reproduce it in house so yeah... Never getting fixed.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6645948&postcount=25

 

To fix something, you have to find out where the problem is. That means you have to reproduce it. If you cannot find what is wrong, you cannot fix it. That is how fixing things works. You can't just wave some magic wrench and have it fixed...

[Izorii]

probably not I want more content over fixing things I hardly notice, Not to mention all the other bugs, and the new bugs they add every update, I doubt we will ever have a bug free game.

[Thylbanus]

I mean all ability delay: combat, dismounting, player quest actions, you name it. If they could fix this in one patch (forget new content), would you guys be happy with it?

 

I know it frustrates the heck out of me when you have that "lag time" before death, because the ability you clicked got delayed by 1-2 sec.

 

I have no idea what this is and have never suffered from it.

[AlexDougherty]

I have no idea what this is and have never suffered from it.

 

Basically it's a lag between you pressing a button and the ability going off, keyword lag. People are complaining about it without bothering to understand what causes lag, which can't be fixed with a patch.

[morfius]

I would be pretty happy if quality of game goes up delaying new content (I have enough to do in 1 - 50 with some chars, 50 - 55 with others and endgame with some) ... but forums will be flooded with whining how content is burned and they need new one NAO or will unsub for next game.

 

So I suppose BW has to balance the show...

[Thylbanus]

Basically it's a lag between you pressing a button and the ability going off, keyword lag. People are complaining about it without bothering to understand what causes lag, which can't be fixed with a patch.

 

I gathered that much, but have no idea when it happens and have not suffered from it. I hit the key, it goes off. The only lag I get is when I have a conversation starting, and I don't mind that.

[Arkerus]

....and perhaps you should learn a thing or two about how business operates before regurgitating misnomers while displaying such pomposity as to infer they are original thoughts based on experience or knowledge.

 

Its called redistribution of resources, has nothing to do with assigned tasks of individuals and everything to do with budgets and finance.....and yes they can redistribute said resources for short term project completion.

 

Painfully ignorant.

 

Someone who designs content or armor or costumes can't work on the ability delay because he would have no clue what to look for.

 

I can take 100 professional chefs and ask them to engineer a car. That would be a terrible, awful car.

 

And if you want to bring resources in now it will take 3-6 months to get them up to speed and then maybe that can have an impact.

 

Welcome to real life, enjoy your stay.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Arkerus

[Arkerus]

While not every department has an impact on certain bugs, all departments have buggs that they can impact. Make sense?

 

For example

 

The art department should be working on all the damn clipping issues.

The class balance team could be working on animation issues, and probably have something to help with ability delay or sluggish performance.

The world design crew can work on the 10 billion places we are constantly getting stuck in.

The engineers could work on the delay and lag and misfire issues.

 

Ultimately there are enough bugs in the game to really spend some time working them out.

 

Now would I want them to skip a patch cycle? I dont know. Perhaps the first patch cycle after an expansion would be ok. Didnt they skip a content patch cycle after 2.0 and used a CM Patch for like 2.1 instead? So there is an opportunity while people are focusing on a new planet with new ops and fps and wz to really spend some time cleaning up the kitchen...as it were.

 

I see what you are saying but all bugs are rated in criticality. Not all will be fixed immediately. Some may never be fixed.

 

And even if they did take all the departments and work on all the bugs and issues it would be a huge strain on resources. You can't stop producing content in the MMO world. Content is the life blood of the game. Taking3 months to work on only bugs and issues would put something extremely behind schedule if its not already.

[ImpactHound]

Like most things wrong with the game (and don't get me wrong, I like it a lot), I'm sure the engine is difficult to work with to fix this problem. Otherwise, the devs would have addressed it fully by now.

 

Maybe not as hopeless as having a "Join the Battle" experience actually in SWTOR (even 16 players on screen at once gets difficult sometimes), but unlikely to be fully resolved unfortunately.

 

As blocky as the models may be, I DO have a lot of fun playing with 80 people in Isle of Conquest or AV. Especially with the nebulous promise of "updated player models... Soon™"

[Blackardin]

Painfully ignorant.

 

Someone who designs content or armor or costumes can't work on the ability delay because he would have no clue what to look for.

 

I can take 100 professional chefs and ask them to engineer a car. That would be a terrible, awful car.

 

And if you want to bring resources in now it will take 3-6 months to get them up to speed and then maybe that can have an impact.

 

Welcome to real life, enjoy your stay.

 

Though I can appreciate the skill inherent in the 13 year old tactics of debate being employed here, I will have to ask how long have you owned and run your successful business? Mine is 30 years....which was the point of my reproving your arrogant and insulting post directed at another. You were, in short, utlizing incorrect information in assuming that retraining, rather then retooling is how a business may re-direct resources, and then utilizing that misinformation as a tool to insult anothers intelligence.

 

If you wish to continue insulting people that is fine. Perhaps at your age it is something that is found to be rewarding in a peer-pressure sort of way, but the information that you are utilizing to do so is incorrect. Redistribution of resources does not entail retraining of current staff, or insisting that a chef build a car, as you are implying. It is, as I stated, a redistribution of resources, and it begins with budgeting, usually initiated by some reassignments, temps, sub contractors, lateral resource acquisition, and a plethora of other varying options. it is done all the time and done successfully by businesses or all sizes and proportions.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Blackardin

[Arkerus]

Though I can appreciate the skill inherent in the 13 year old tactics of debate being employed here, I will have to ask how long have you owned and run your successful business? Mine is 30 years....which was the point of my reproving your arrogant and insulting post directed at another. You were, in short, utlizing incorrect information in assuming that retraining, rather then retooling is how a business may re-direct resources, and then utilizing that misinformation as a tool to insult anothers intelligence.

 

If you wish to continue insulting people that is fine. Perhaps at your age it is something that is found to be rewarding in a peer-pressure sort of way, but the information that you are utilizing to do so is incorrect. Redistribution of resources does not entail retraining of current staff, or insisting that a chef build a car, as you are implying. It is, as I stated, a redistribution of resources, and it begins with budgeting, usually initiated by some reassignments, temps, sub contractors, lateral resource acquisition, and a plethora of other varying options. it is done all the time and done successfully by businesses or all sizes and proportions.

 

Man. You just don't get it.

 

If they are going to re-tool and hire additional resources or shuffle the deck that takes time and money. Time and money. Time...and...money. That doesn't happen overnight. This industry is extremely prone to layoffs so development studios never hire beyond what they need.

 

If they do what you said, great. More gets done (after everyone has been trained on their job and understands the toolset) but it won't change a damn thing about what gets released and prioritized every patch.

 

Every patch will still be:

Content or updates

events, pvp stuff

QoL fixes

Bug Fixes

Server Fixes, code, etc.

There will just be more of each. We're never going to see a mega bug fix only patch because its completely unrealistic.

 

Look bub, I don't care if you own your own space shuttle. You obviously don't understand how these environments work. If you did, you wouldn't be arguing the point. And what point ARE you arguing? That we should see a bug fix only mega patch? That would be a ridiculous waste of resources.

 

Bioware most likely has a staff set up to do exactly what they see as the right thru-put for cost effectiveness. I hate to tell you, but in real life, some issues are just not a priority.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Arkerus

[Thylbanus]

I've got a quote from someone in the industry:

The sad part here is that, for the most part, forum goers here don't really want factual information based on experience. They want agreement or some sort of stereotype that they can toss you in so its easier to ignore whatever logical statements you might make.

 

Here is some additional information that the "I play games so I know how to make games" crowd won't really think of:

 

1: Along with the mythical man month (which, I'll admit, is a mistake loads of MBA-carrying managers still make... take that however you like), there is a similar complication that comes from bug-squashing. A lot of good bug fixing efforts rely on a somewhat-stable codebase for proper completion. In this case "stable" means "understood". It's hard or impossible to fix a bug when you can't replicate the problem, apply the fix, and see the resolution in the final build. This is pretty simple when you're fixing one bug in the build. More commonly, you're fixing a dozen. So, you have to check for interactions on the bug fixes to make sure you're not introducing something new. Now imagine this mythical mega-bugfix, where you're fixing four to eight dozen bugs. The interactions are so complex, that you won't be able to confirm any conflicts, and you might not even be able to confirm that the bug is fixed. There is a reason why actual developers tend to schedule bug fixes on non-feature releases. There is also a reason why they tend to release small groups of bug fixes at a time. If you think you know a better way, feel free to jump into the industry. We're looking for that magical method you think you have.

 

2: The Content Team is very likely not the team that fixes bugs. Not only does dumping them onto the bugfix team run afoul of the Mythical Man Month in the most blatant way, but there is very little to suggest they have the skillset to isolate/fix/test the bugs. An architect is a great person to help you build your house, but they may not be your best choice to fix a clogged drain. So, why are you suggesting that a team of artists, UI designers, modelers, and quest-scripting developers jump in to fix rendering or network code?

 

3: The limiting factor on the speed of bugfixes is often not the speed of the developers. I've related a story a couple times here, where I fixed a bug in a 100k line application that only required 4 lines of code to change. The fix took two weeks. Of that time, I spent only 15 minutes changing the code. One whole week was spent scheduling and coordinating the testing of the bugfix with the integration and QA teams.

 

Combine the three together and what would a mega-bugfix turn out to be? A huge slog with developers tripping over each other in an attempt to push bugfixes out to a QA process that can't hope to complete its task with suitable accuracy.

 

What's the solution? Don't pile up bugfixes. Let them happen in small groups over time. Its easier to manage. Its easier to test. It doesn't get in the way of content teams.

 

But, of course, it angers players who think that a few years of playing MMOs makes them qualified to be a software project manager. So, I guess there are two sides to every coin.

[easeyway]

That delay is usually caused by lag, which is caused by physical restrictions on how your computer accesses the server. (Do a course of computers and how the internet works if you're curious) This is beyond the ability of a patch to fix, in fact it's beyond the ability of EA to fix, or any single company.

 

There is a 1 second ability queue window in the game. This covers <1000ms latency.

 

Also, I wonder why you don't get this while playing BF3 or CoD?

Edited September 16, 2013 by easeyway

[captpickles]

That delay is usually caused by lag, which is caused by physical restrictions on how your computer accesses the server. (Do a course of computers and how the internet works if you're curious) This is beyond the ability of a patch to fix, in fact it's beyond the ability of EA to fix, or any single company.

 

Negative. BF2, bf3, bad company, l4d, l4d2, wow, dayz, armara, diablo ii, diablo iii do not have this issue. but every other fight i can watch "series of shots" flash, go on cool down and not do anything at all.

 

i can also watch ambush fire, hit the follow up keybind very quickly (see LOTS OF $%^&ING RED TEXT) see follow through fire,,, and then no ability will work for 1.5 seconds,,, and NOT show a cooldown on a ability that DOES NOT trigger a GCD.

 

engine issues...

Edited September 16, 2013 by captpickles

[Nemmar]

Yes, i would be up for that.

 

I have supported threads about the issue for more than a year now. I have pretty much given up on Bioware as much as they have given up on fixing it.

[Arkerus]

I've got a quote from someone in the industry:

 

Definitely one of the best posts around here.

 

This is another one of my favorites...

 

http://mrlizard.com/rants/why-havent-they-fixed-this-bug/

 

People who understand it...get it. People who don't...make ridiculous assumptions and bad threads asking for bug fix mega patches.

[DeltaEkotte]

I will worship the day/ground devs walk on when they do a major bug fixing patch instead of content. Yes I said it.

 

I would rather have a large bug fixing update than a large content update.

[LordArtemis]

I think that a major code refinement pass would help many of the current bugs in the game. Not to mention that there are still seams that need to be connected in the environment, rendering is still a problem (especially static rendering).

 

The loading of objects and textures has improved, but certain objects, like mailboxes and GTN kiosks are treated like resource spawns instead of static objects, and I think that needs to change.

[TUXs]

If Bioware spent one whole patch on fixing ability delay...

 

...I bet it would still be there.

[asbalana]

If Bioware spent one whole patch on fixing ability delay...

 

...I bet it would still be there.

 

LOL, that is so true and actually happened.

 

The many issues that have been lumped into ability delay were the among the first topics on the forum after launch. The threads went 100s and 100s of pages and BW finally admitted the problem(s). They took a run at it and there was a small improvement but nothing was really fixed. Over almost two years now, ability delay has been with us. Sometimes it gets worse and sometimes a little better, but is always there.

 

It will never be fixed. The only interesting thing is how from time to time a new thread on the topic appears, goes awhile, and then fades out.