Top 3 Questions From Mercenary Community to Developers - Odawgg

[odawgg]

1. PVE Question

Progression Raiding Viability

 

Question:

Can you please comment on how you feel both Merc DPS and Heals stack up against their raid spot competitors when it comes to what they bring to the table for ‘Progression Raiding’. More specifically, why would you consider taking a merc in your raid group over a Sniper (DPS) and Op/Sorc (Heals) if faced with the option?

 

Comments:

Although there is a predominant feeling that Mercs are ‘viable’ in both damage and healing roles when it comes to nightmare progression content, we also think that we are falling short in several key aspects of progression raiding.

 

DPS: Discussions within the community have revealed, that a lot of arsenal mercenaries don't bring as much to a raid as a marauder or sniper in terms of dps. Feedback from the combat team indicates, that this is because of our utility abilities and that's the tradeoff for them. In this regard, we feel that the perceived usefulness of our own class raid wide utilities (cleansing, battle-rez, off heals, armor debuff) in progession raiding is somewhat exaggerated. Although the idea of having an off-healer-type role that can still do good damage is in theory an appealing role, current end-game content doesn't cater well to it.

 

Most raid leaders feel (rightfully so), that the main job of a damage dealer should be to come up with the necessary damage to kill a boss, while bringing along some solid utilities that help the raid as a whole. However, every casted off-heal/cleanse hurts our dps severely consuming GCDs/resources. Since our sustained dps is below our sniper and marauder competitors to begin with, we fall even further behind. Suggestions: Free cleanses, off-GCD & low-cost heals.

 

A Mercenary’s armor debuff is also devalued, given the common nature of Snipers and Jugs in current raid make-ups. So if they do invite a Merc, they probably need the armor debuff which makes Pyro spec even less appealing (on top of lower survivability). To cap it off, our primary rdps competing snipers have a rooted AoE knockback, overall better AoE damage, a beautiful sniper shield for raid damage reduction, rolley polley, entrench and – not forgotten – overall better sustained single target dps.

 

Heals: Again, we predominantly feel we are viable healers in end game PVE, but it has been established we’ll never put up the healing numbers operatives and sorcs can. We appear to be designed with single-target healing in mind but we don't feel we have a significant enough advantage in that to make up for our short comings in pro-active healing, AoE heals and QoL. The AoE heals on the move are an advantage to the merc that is rarely utilized in current encounters. Suggestion: Allowing for the ability to apply Kolto Shell to multiple targets would be a good move, giving us something that both other healing classes have, a pro-active mechanic that can be applied to your choice of raid members and boost overall hps and make us more appealing.

 

We feel the level of difficulty to just compete with the best classes is quite high and this applies to DPS and healing, largely due to an unforgiving heat management system.

 

 

2. PVP Question

Utility Cooldowns

 

Question:

Are the developers aware of how the excessive length of Mercenary utility cooldowns have a negative effect on their capabilities in PvP, and how do they plan to improve this situation for Mercenary players?

 

Comments:

Mercenary utility cooldowns are all exceptionally long and seem designed around a much slower pace of combat. Most of them do not offer a benefit that accurately reflects the length of the cooldown, and in comparison to similar abilities belonging to other ACs simply do not make sense.

 

Power Surge: The only baseline cooldown that offers a way to avoid being interrupted in an AC so heavily dependent on casting, has by default a 120s cooldown and affects only 1 ability (it can be talented down to 90s and affect 2 abilities). Mercenary’s only other interrupt resistance comes from the Bodyguard (healing) tree, so for both DPS specs Power Surge is the only way to attempt to maintain DPS output while under pressure. Unfortunately for Mercenary DPS players, pressure from opponents is going to occur much more often than just once every 90s. While proper positioning and use of LoS can help to mitigate this weakness, competent melee opponents have more tools at their disposal to continue to apply pressure (and damage). If Power Surge is not available for use, the Mercenary DPS will be unable to maintain even a semblance of their damage output and will be an easy target for competent opponents.

 

Thermal Sensor Override (TSO): Also suffers from the same cooldown problem (default of 120s, can be talented to 90s) and also only affects one ability. As only 1 of two skills the class has that help to provide emergency resource management utility (and the same cooldown as an ability (Vent Heat) that refunds 50% of our resource), TSOs cooldown is much too long in terms of the benefit that it is providing.

 

Kolto Overload (KO): Has a 180s cooldown for Mercenary players. While it is a decent defensive ability (changing the upper healing limit to 35% was appreciated), the cooldown has the potential to be excessively long. If KO is used preemptively, say as enemies are approaching, and is never activated (your health remains >35%), after 60s KO will go on cooldown. This effectively makes the cooldown of KO 4 minutes before it can be used again.

 

These three abilities are just a few examples (Electro Net also comes to mind) of utility skills that provide important benefits to Mercenary players in certain situations, but have cooldowns that are so long that they are rarely available when using said ability(s) would be beneficial. While these utility abilities are obviously not intended to be used in every encounter, the cooldown length is prohibitively long (players find themselves not using an ability where they normally would/should because the cooldown is so long and they want to use it at the perfect moment. This results in the ability being used far less than intended). The median cooldown of Mercenary utility skills is 105 seconds. Compare that to Sniper, who has a median utility cooldown of 60s (that’s ~40% lower than Mercenary).

 

Side Note: Tied into the idea of utility abilities is that they play a significant role in our ability to avoid being easily shut down and keep our enemies at range at least momentarily. This is a big concern in the community and the developers have stated they are working on this but a lot of time has gone by with little done.

 

 

 

3. Wildcard Question

Resource Management

 

Question:

A big concern/complaint in the merc community revolves around resource management across all specs. How do the devs feel about where the Merc A/C is at regarding heat management? Do you intend to make any changes in the (near?) future to alleviate some of the community’s frustration over heat management?

 

Comments:

Changing the 4pc eliminator set bonus in 2.0 was not well-received by the community. We guess that the intent was to make it usable by both dps specs, but many Arsenal Mercenaries still use the old Dread Guard set bonus because it is easier to manage heat and doesn't result in a dps loss. In fact, it is actually a dps gain up until full Kell Dragon where the dps difference becomes negligible. Simply put, the new set bonus still has the same problem as the old one: it clearly benefits one spec more than the other. Suggestion: Making a Cylinder-based set bonus would be a perfect solution to this issue so both arsenal and pyro benefit.

 

RNG also plays a big role in our heat management with the Barrage talent, and many players feel the chance to proc Barrage is currently too low.

 

Pyrotech: We recognize the current changes on the PTR to pyro’s Incendiary Missile heat cost will go a long way to alleviate this spec’s resource management. We would love to see a similar improvement to the other specs.

 

Bodyguard: We still lack the basic ability to heal ourselves with our default heal (Rapid Shots) -- a basic function we need to share with Operatives with a similarly tiered resource regeneration system. ur very roundabout way of doing it with Kolto Shell + Peacekeeper, is only minimally useful in PVP, dismal in PVE, and above all else, is not as simple as what the other healers have. If you overextend and drop into low-tier regen, you're punished quite a lot if vent heat or TSO aren't available to help you get back to a manageable level or throw out a big heal while you don't have you heat to do so. You only have rapid shots (small heal) and emergency scan (long cooldown) while you slowly regenerate energy, and no way to speed up the process.

 

In comparison, Operatives can use diagnostic scan and its crits restore energy, and Sorcerers can use consumption, and they also regenerate force at the same rate no matter their force level anyway. Suggestion: Having heat dissipation added to rapid shots when used to heal an ally (could be a solution for Arsenal dps; dissipate on damage). Another suggestion we can think of is some proc that lowers the cooldown of TSO so that it can be used more often.

 

Side Note: The Commando ammo display is a huge QoL issue. It’s difficult to scan quickly for your current ammo level and where the next ability will leave your resources at. We hope something can be done, like a 1-100 scale used by Mercs.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2013 by odawgg

[oaceen]

there's a rogue bit of BBcode right here:

 

Changing the 4pc eliminator set bonus in 2.0

 

otherwise, it looks really good. i'll say again that i love the format for these.

[odawgg]

there's a rogue bit of BBcode right here:

 

Changing the 4pc eliminator set bonus in 2.0

 

otherwise, it looks really good. i'll say again that i love the format for these.

 

Thank you sir

[PerinnAybara]

Good work!

[CommanderKeeva]

Thanks a lot! These are wonderful questions. The community has done its part beautifully, now it's up to the devs.

 

Small typo here:

"Kolto Overload (KO): Has a 180s cooldown for Mercenary players. While it is a decent defensive ability (changing the upper healing limit to 35% was appreciate), "

 

It was probably meant to be "appreciated".

Edited September 14, 2013 by CommanderKeeva

[ArchangelLBC]

Spot on. Love them. Here's hoping for good answers =X

[Tyrias]

I might not have been following the development of these questions as cloesly as I ought (and so missed the reasoning behind it), but I'd consider changing the line:

 

"We still lack the basic ability to heal ourselves with our default heal (Rapid Shots) -- a basic function all the healers have."

 

As someone who has Commando and Operative alts, it's always been a frustration that for an unknown reason Rapid Shots can't be applied to self, but Diagnostic Scan can. However, as someone who Mains a Sage, it is more frustrating that there is no such skill comparable to Diagnostic Scan or Rapid Shots on a sage.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is that I agree with what you're saying and Rapid shots should be usable on yourself, but just tighten up the wording on that. Not 'all' healers have that basic function. You don't want them to give any room to tell you that you're wrong. About anything. Also, making comparrisons to Sage regen is a bit difficult, because it's so different. If you leave it in, I'd fully expect them to respond with answers about how Sages don't have regen tiers because their base regen is slower, instead of getting a helpful acknowledgement of any problems.

 

But on the whole, great questions.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Tyrias

[Leylea]

Due to a few days of vacation i havent been able to follow or to support the elaboration of these questions, but it looks very well.

A special thanks from my side to the merc community and especially to Odawgg for this excellent work. I really hope the devs will contribute by thoroughly reading the comments and give informative answers and an insight into to their design idea of mercs.

 

Just for my point of view its a little fly in the ointment that electro net isnt mentioned in the pvp CD section. I am aware that this ability is already a very powerful one, but a litte shortening of the CD would both improve ur survivability (pvp) and push our dmg for a small amount (pve).

[Phrase]

So the answers come next Thursday/ Friday?

[AMightyKnight]

So the answers come next Thursday/ Friday?

After the H2F desaster answers come on mondays

[SpaniardInfinity]

As someone who has Commando and Operative alts, it's always been a frustration that for an unknown reason Rapid Shots can't be applied to self, but Diagnostic Scan can. However, as someone who Mains a Sage, it is more frustrating that there is no such skill comparable to Diagnostic Scan or Rapid Shots on a sage.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is that I agree with what you're saying and Rapid shots should be usable on yourself, but just tighten up the wording on that. Not 'all' healers have that basic function. You don't want them to give any room to tell you that you're wrong. About anything. Also, making comparrisons to Sage regen is a bit difficult, because it's so different. If you leave it in, I'd fully expect them to respond with answers about how Sages don't have regen tiers because their base regen is slower, instead of getting a helpful acknowledgement of any problems.

 

A fair point. Sages are pretty much the mavericks of the healing archtype -- its hard to compare them to the Tech healers since they, well, don't compare very easily. If anything, we should probably focus the comparisons on Scoundrels specifically since they are rather similar from a mechanic perspective.

Edited September 14, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[cashogy_reborn]

After the H2F desaster answers come on mondays

 

Other way around... they used to come on Monday, but have been changed to later in the week so that the devs can actually do a good job.

[AMightyKnight]

That was before the H2F debacle if i remeber correctly. They posted the Sorc and Vanguard answers on a Friday (0/8/23) just before closing up for the weekend. When the *****torm hit there was nobody at the office to respond. Musco later said they would post the next answers after the weekend on mondays to avoid a similiar situation.

If Musco already has our question (the deadline was yesterday, right?) we should get the answers on Monday 09/23.

[odawgg]

I might not have been following the development of these questions as cloesly as I ought (and so missed the reasoning behind it), but I'd consider changing the line:

 

"We still lack the basic ability to heal ourselves with our default heal (Rapid Shots) -- a basic function all the healers have."

 

As someone who has Commando and Operative alts, it's always been a frustration that for an unknown reason Rapid Shots can't be applied to self, but Diagnostic Scan can. However, as someone who Mains a Sage, it is more frustrating that there is no such skill comparable to Diagnostic Scan or Rapid Shots on a sage.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is that I agree with what you're saying and Rapid shots should be usable on yourself, but just tighten up the wording on that. Not 'all' healers have that basic function. You don't want them to give any room to tell you that you're wrong. About anything. Also, making comparrisons to Sage regen is a bit difficult, because it's so different. If you leave it in, I'd fully expect them to respond with answers about how Sages don't have regen tiers because their base regen is slower, instead of getting a helpful acknowledgement of any problems.

 

But on the whole, great questions.

 

I reworded it but it might be too late

[KhalDrogoe]

Pyrotech: We recognize the current changes on the PTR to pyro’s Incendiary Missile heat cost will go a long way to alleviate this spec’s resource management. We would love to see a similar improvement to the other specs.

 

C'mon reducing incendiary isn't going to solve this spec's problems. It's like using a band-aid for a bullet hole. They also reduced the damage of all the skills they reduced the heat on.

 

No one is still going to take Pyro into a progression raid, nor is it going to make it anymore competitive in the game. All it will do is give inflated numbers to tab dotters.

 

What I'm getting at is, would YOU even want to spec Pyro over arsenal in a NiM Progression group. If the answer is no, then it's obvious that the skill tree isn't balanced properly.

 

Other than that gripe, I'm very happy with the questions. Thanks.

Edited September 15, 2013 by KhalDrogoe

[oaceen]

C'mon reducing incendiary isn't going to solve this spec's problems. It's like using a band-aid for a bullet hole. They also reduced the damage of all the skills they reduced the heat on.

 

No one is still going to take Pyro into a progression raid, nor is it going to make it anymore competitive in the game. All it will do is give inflated numbers to tab dotters.

 

What I'm getting at is, would YOU even want to spec Pyro over arsenal in a NiM Progression group. If the answer is no, then it's obvious that the skill tree isn't balanced properly.

 

Other than that gripe, I'm very happy with the questions. Thanks.

 

the part you quoted is from the resource management question, which frankly shouldn't even mention pyro as it does not have a problem with resource management before the change.

 

as for the concern of progression viability, the very first question is asking about this for all three specs and even makes a point that arsenal is more valued than pyro because of the armor debuff, so it runs into competition within its own AC.

[LordKantner]

No one is still going to take Pyro into a progression raid, nor is it going to make it anymore competitive in the game. All it will do is give inflated numbers to tab dotters.

 

I'm all for buffing the already enormous raid damage I do in 16m nightmare progression.

 

A Mercenary’s armor debuff is also devalued, given the common nature of Snipers and Jugs in current raid make-ups. So if they do invite a Merc, they probably need the armor debuff which makes Pyro spec even less appealing (on top of lower survivability). To cap it off, our primary rdps competing snipers have a rooted AoE knockback, overall better AoE damage, a beautiful sniper shield for raid damage reduction, rolley polley, entrench and – not forgotten – overall better sustained single target dps.

 

 

I would also like the Merc/Mando to not be the sole hope for armour pen, especially in 8m raids where it is most likely the only option. I'd optimally like something like sages have, Pyro is very similar to madness as far as energy pool management, and in the future certain fights promote certain specs, so all you arsenal guys will have to learn the coolest spec in the game imo for some fights.

[odawgg]

C'mon reducing incendiary isn't going to solve this spec's problems. It's like using a band-aid for a bullet hole. They also reduced the damage of all the skills they reduced the heat on.

 

No one is still going to take Pyro into a progression raid, nor is it going to make it anymore competitive in the game. All it will do is give inflated numbers to tab dotters.

 

What I'm getting at is, would YOU even want to spec Pyro over arsenal in a NiM Progression group. If the answer is no, then it's obvious that the skill tree isn't balanced properly.

 

Other than that gripe, I'm very happy with the questions. Thanks.

 

Well I'm in one of the more notable progression guilds in the world, roll pyro quite often and they invite me back every week to group 1 I pull amongst the highest arsenal numbers yet I can crush my arsenal numbers with pyro on select fights. I'm not saying pyro doesn't have it's flaws but there's definitely some fights that favor it and a raid isn't going to not take you just cuz ur running pyro...they're gonna not take you only if you don't play it well

 

But what oaceen said, that question is about difficult heat management which doesn't apply to pyro since PTR updates...some argue it never did

Edited September 15, 2013 by odawgg

[odawgg]

Just for my point of view its a little fly in the ointment that electro net isnt mentioned in the pvp CD section. I am aware that this ability is already a very powerful one, but a litte shortening of the CD would both improve ur survivability (pvp) and push our dmg for a small amount (pve).

 

I actually thought this should have been in there as well, it kinda slipped my mind and nobody brought it up so it never made it in...i'll add it just in case Eric hasn't grabbed them yet.

[cashogy_reborn]

I didnt think Pyro had a resource management problem; it has very predictable resource management IMO.

 

It just doesnt have the sustained or the burst DPS to be competitive in any environment. Defensive buffs help minorly in un-competitive PvP, but do they help in PvE at all?

 

Those defensive buffs just give ammo to the Pyrotech haters to scream that the class already got a buff and doesnt need anything else. It was a mistake knee-jerk reaction to the "perception problem" fiasco.

[odawgg]

I didnt think Pyro had a resource management problem; it has very predictable resource management IMO.

 

It just doesnt have the sustained or the burst DPS to be competitive in any environment. Defensive buffs help minorly in un-competitive PvP, but do they help in PvE at all?

 

Those defensive buffs just give ammo to the Pyrotech haters to scream that the class already got a buff and doesnt need anything else. It was a mistake knee-jerk reaction to the "perception problem" fiasco.

 

 

Well there is a perception problem PVE wise for Pyro, due to it historically being pretty bad in PVE, since 2.0 though it no longer lacks sustained DPS, still lacks some attractive tools arsenal has like double power surge, decreased cd of energy shield or chaffe flares force/tech attack absorption (you can only pick one or the other) and the increased hydraulic overrides time. And target switch heavy encounters take some skill but even still falls short of arsenal for that...Did the new PTR changes add anything for survivability other than the chaffe flares boosted defense? That is a nice addition. I haven't raided PTR with Pyro yet but I'm predicting I'll be using it much more come 2.4 UNLESS they bring back old 4 piece for Arsenal, that might change some things.

 

Edit: oh I forgot arsenal boosted knock back option is nice too... The talent in Pyro that allows for energy shield damage to enemy comes in handy

Edited September 15, 2013 by odawgg

[windogie]

Just noticed this and sorry if someone already mentioned this, but shouldn't tracer missile be included in target tracking? I mean pyro has power shot included in its surge bonus why isn't tracer missile included in arsenals?

[Phrase]

I didnt think Pyro had a resource management problem; it has very predictable resource management IMO.

 

It just doesnt have the sustained or the burst DPS to be competitive in any environment. Defensive buffs help minorly in un-competitive PvP, but do they help in PvE at all?

 

Those defensive buffs just give ammo to the Pyrotech haters to scream that the class already got a buff and doesnt need anything else. It was a mistake knee-jerk reaction to the "perception problem" fiasco.

 

Won't the changes to IM heat cost make Pyro somewhat viable for teams running dotcleave comps? Or have they nerfed the damage too much?

[cashogy_reborn]

Won't the changes to IM heat cost make Pyro somewhat viable for teams running dotcleave comps? Or have they nerfed the damage too much?

 

It depends a lot on who would be playing I think. Pyro is still really lacking in burst in comparison to just about any other DPS option. At competitive levels I just dont see Pyro being able to compete at the same level. A highly skilled player might be able to get close to that level, but if they were playing just about any other spec/AC they would be so much better/more valuable to the team.

[EricMusco]

I will pass these on to the team! Thanks Odawgg and everyone else than contributed.

 

-eric