Top 3 Questions Finalists - Continued Discussion

[AMightyKnight]

Great work, looks promising.

 

There were some apparent spelling and grammar issues in the frist question though. I tried to correct them without changing anything you wrote. But maybe someone should look it over again.

 

 

 

Question:

Can you please comment on how you feel both Merc DPS and Heals stack up against their raid spot competitors when it comes to what they bring to the table for ‘Nightmare progression raiding’. More specifically, why would you consider taking a merc in your raid group over a Sniper (DPS) and Op/Sorc (Heals) if faced with the option?

 

Comments:

Although there is a predominant feeling that Mercs are ‘viable’ in both damage and healing roles when it comes to nightmare progression content, we also think that we are falling short in several key aspects of progression raiding.

 

DPS: Discussions within the community have revealed, that a lot of arsenal mercenaries don't bring as much to a raid as a marauder or sniper in terms of dps. Feedback from the combat team indicates, that this is because of our utility abilities and that's the tradeoff for them. A lot of the community would be happy to trade in our utility to become more desirable in raids as the utilities we are given aren't being, well, utilized.

 

In this regard, we feel that the perceived usefulness of our own class raid wide utilities (cleansing, battle-rez, off heals, armor debuff) in profession raiding is somewhat exaggerated. Most raid leaders feel (rightfully so), that the main job of a damage dealer should be to come up with the necessary damage to kill a boss, while bringing along some solid utilities that help the raid as a whole. However, every casted off heal/cleanse hurts dps severely by consuming GCDs/resources. Since our sustained dps is below our sniper and marauder competitors to begin with, we fall even further behind. Suggestions: Free cleanses, off-GCD & low-cost heals.

 

A Mercenary’s armor debuff is also devalued, given the common nature of Snipers and Jugs in current raid make-ups. So if they do invite a Merc, they probably need the armor debuff which makes Pyro spec even less appealing (on top of lower survivability). To cap it off, our primary rdps competing snipers have a rooted AoE knockback, overall better AoE damage, a beautiful sniper shield for raid damage reduction, rolley polley, entrench and – not forgotten – overall better sustained single target dps.

 

Heals: Again, we predominantly feel we are viable healers in end game PVE, but it has been established we’ll never put up the healing numbers operatives and sorcs can. Our ‘specialty’ appears to be single target healing, but both other healing classes are arguably better in that regard as well while being superior in AoE heals. The AoE heals on the move are an advantage to the merc that is rarely utilized in current encounters. Suggestion: Allowing for the ability to apply Kolto Shell to multiple targets would be a good move, giving us something that both other healing classes have, a pro-active mechanic that can be applied to your choice of raid members and boost overall hps and make us more appealing.

 

We feel the level of difficulty to just compete with the best classes is quite high and this applies to DPS and healing, largely due to an unforgiving heat management system.

 

 

 

[ekimmak]

snip

 

What I hated about this was the grammar, but that's simply a personal issue, what points you have are pretty important to consider.

 

More than a few class specs have a mechanic that involves stacking and consuming buffs for advantages in combat. But the only one that has nearly as large a necessary stack (that I know of) apart from mercenary healer, is the sentinel class in general.

Their Centering mechanic is very similar to Super Charged Cylinders, but it has a much larger effect, and can be maxed on demand (albeit, with a lengthy cooldown). Most other classes don't have to put nearly as many GCD into directly building stacks, because theirs has both a much lower limit, with cooldowns attached to the triggering skills.

 

I vote that the supercharged cylinders gain a massive buff. And I mean, 'blows Scoundrel healers away with how powerful it is'. Because we can't build up charges instantly, the time spent building back charges should be able to balance us out against other healers. It'll give a reason for people to actually want them.

 

Of course, then people will tell me that "It'll break PVP, how could you even consider it?" And how is this any different from when a scoundrel healer starts spamming emergency medpack, coasting through the execute phase? It would actually take better judgement from the mercenary, as if it's just 1v1, you shouldn't be trying to take them on anyway (same as operatives). If it's 1v2, then I don't know what you were expecting. If it's in a group mob, then you should try getting some teamwork. I shouldn't have to teach you how to fight in a group.

[nebucanezor]

sorry about the grammer, i do not write much englisch

[cs_zoltan]

Why do we ask a PVE question that they already answered?

 

It is not intended for the Juggernaut/Guardian damage specializations’ output and group utility to be sub-par because Juggernauts/Guardians can specialize to fulfill the role of a tank. We do realize that Juggernaut/Guardian damage dealers and some other damage dealers that can specialize in tanking or healing feel like they are not currently desirable group members in operations, and this is a high-priority issue for us to address.

 

Unfortunately, this is not a small issue that is standing in line for a quick and simple fix – it affects far more than just Juggernaut/Guardian damage dealers. As such, changes made to address this issue will be rolling out slowly, over time, in class-specific ways. The upcoming 2.4 changes for Powertech damage dealers are an example of this, and our much longer-term plans for this include adding new utility to the advanced classes and roles that seem to lack it. The gaps between our damage dealing specializations are already small for a game with this many specializations, but we will be working to shrink those gaps even further over time.

 

And this is just not true:

Heals: Again we predominantly feel we are viable healers in end game PVE but we have proven we’ll never put up the healing numbers operatives and sorcs can. Our ‘specialty’ appears to be single target healing, but both other healing classes are arguably better in that regard as well while being superior in AoE heals.

[Nekoryuu]

DPS [...] Suggestions: Free cleanses, off-GCD & low-cost heals.

Plus "Chaff Flare now applies all its effects on all allies in a 5 meters range"

Mass aggro reduction + absorb next direct damage (Arsenal) or 25% defense buff (Pyro 2.4) on our allies every 45s would be usefull... What, no ? Damn...

[AMightyKnight]

Why do we ask a PVE question that they already answered?

We want to know if they think the same way about our class and what they want to do about it.

Ist far from certain whether or not they regognize our raid wide utilities are crap compared to what other bring to the table while we are doing considerably less damage.

Its also not so much about the question itself than to explain our position to them since some fear that they dont have an idea about how the class works out when actually played.

In any case, the ressource management question is much more important for all of us anyway.

Edited September 13, 2013 by AMightyKnight

[oaceen]

i really like the format of these questions, actually.

 

 

i have one suggestion for question 1 in that we probably should not focus on nightmare progression because only a small percentage of the population participates in this. i think instead it should just be a generalized 'end-game content' or simply 'progression raiding' question.

i also still feel that we shouldn't be telling them 'hey, we'll give up some utility if we can do more damage', but i think they can at least dispel (again) the perception of a hybrid tax

 

i have a feeling that they'll give us a response in the same vein as laz target (ie: 'it's on a long cooldown because it can be used on anything'), but at least we'll have an answer for it. i think going with the cooldown question is good because we're covering the main issue with healing in question 3

 

and speaking of question 3, i made some edits for it.

 

 

 

3. Wildcard Question

Resource Management

 

Question:

A big concern/complaint in the merc community revolves around resource management across all specs. How do the devs feel about where the Merc A/C is at regarding heat management? Do you intend to make any changes in the (near?) future to alleviate some of the community’s frustration over heat management?

 

Comments:

Arsenal: Changing the 4pc eliminator set bonus in 2.0 was not well-received by the community. We guess that the intent was to make it usable by both dps specs, but many Arsenal Mercenaries still use the old Dread Guard set bonus because it is easier to manage heat and doesn't result in a dps loss. In fact, it is actually a dps gain up until full Kell Dragon where the dps difference becomes negligible. Simply put, the new set bonus still has the same problem as the old one: it clearly benefits one spec more than the other.

Suggestion: Making a Cylinder-based set bonus would be a perfect solution to this issue so both arsenal and pyro benefit.

 

RNG also plays a big role in our heat management with the Barrage talent, and many players feel the chance to proc Barrage is currently too low.

 

Bodyguard: We still lack the basic ability to heal ourselves with our default heal (Rapid Shots) -- a basic function all the healers have. Our very roundabout way of doing it with Kolto Shell + Peacekeeper, is only minimally useful in PVP, dismal in PVE, and above all else, is not as simple as what the other healers have. If you overextend and drop into low-tier regen, you're punished quite a lot if vent heat or TSO aren't available to help you get back to a manageable level or throw out a big heal while you don't have you heat to do so. You only have rapid shots (small heal) and emergency scan (long cooldown) while you slowly regenerate energy, and no way to speed up the process.

 

In comparison, Operatives can use diagnostic scan and its crits restore energy, and Sorcerers can use consumption, and they also regenerate force at the same rate no matter their force level anyway. Suggestion: Having heat dissipation added to rapid shots when used to heal an ally (could be a solution for Arsenal dps; dissipate on damage). Another suggestion we can think of is some proc that lowers the cooldown of TSO so that it can be used more often.

 

Side Note: The Commando ammo display is a huge QoL issue. It’s difficult to scan quickly for your current ammo level and where the next ability will leave your resources at. We hope something can be done, like a 1-100 scale used by Mercs.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2013 by oaceen

[cashogy_reborn]

Looks good IMO, the one thing I would change about question 2 is the bit about the 30m stun. I dont think its totally relevant to the topic of the question, and IMO detracts a bit from what we are trying to convey (our utility cooldowns are too damn long)

[CommanderKeeva]

I doubt they would give us back the 30 meter stun because no class in the game can stun from 30 meters. Instead, we should request a 30-meter mezz, like Flashbang/Flash Grenade, be that single target or AoE. Stunning someone from 30 meters would mean that he's unable to do anything against a Tracer + HSM combo, which (coupled with ENet) might mean that the opponent is unable to act in any meaningful way while we rip him apart using our ranged advantage. I think this is the issue the developers are afraid of and are trying to avoid.

 

I would also suggest changing Jet Boost/Concussion Charge, so that it roots people instead of dealing damage, exactly how Snipers' Cover Pulse works. Seriously, what's the point in Jet Boost's damage? Has anyone ever used it purely for dealing damage? The damage it does is so pitiful and inefficient that no one would ever use it for damage. And the knockback effect is meaningless if melee can just leap/run/roll right back at us...

 

How stupid is it to have our root tied to Rocket Punch instead of Jet Boost? Exactly how far can you run in 4 seconds (even with Hydraulic Overrides activated)? You can't even go out of leap range before the root wears off, and the time you spend moving is time you're not spending damaging. This just makes zero sense to me.

Edited September 13, 2013 by CommanderKeeva

[AMightyKnight]

i have one suggestion for question 1 in that we probably should not focus on nightmare progression because only a small percentage of the population participates in this. i think instead it should just be a generalized 'end-game content' or simply 'progression raiding' question.

True, however class composition in a hardmode raid is pretty much irrelevant, while on the other hand a probably rather sizeable majority of the playerbase would agree that class balance is important. And since the only relevant indicator for proper class balance is the most difficult content we have to talk about current Nightmare progression if we want to address the issue of class balance. In the end those who don’t play Nightmare modes will benefit as well, but to judge a class based on its usability in story mode raids is completely useless.

[oaceen]

True, however class composition in a hardmode raid is pretty much irrelevant,

 

i think it is irrelevant if you are overgeared for the content. i can promise you that some players struggle just as much on story mode and hard mode progression as the hardcore raiders do on nightmare.

 

 

it wasn't really a strong suggestion though, but i just didn't want it to seem like we only cared about the elite few at the top and weren't concerned with the average player, but well, the average player probably doesn't care/isn't reading this anyway, so it's back to my not a strong suggestion anyway.

[schooch]

Might I add thank you again to Cash for the PVP question. I know that the Mandos favored the Bodyguard PVP question, however on this side of the force (This round is for the mercs afterall) utility was more in demand by my count over the past couple months.

 

Well this is disappointing, haha. The questions still look good, thanks for all the work you put into them.

[odawgg]

Looks good IMO, the one thing I would change about question 2 is the bit about the 30m stun. I dont think its totally relevant to the topic of the question, and IMO detracts a bit from what we are trying to convey (our utility cooldowns are too damn long)

 

Yeah I hear ya, I was just trying to throw it in somewhere cuz I get annoyed by it haha..I doubt it would retract from the main points but it is a bit irrelavent, I'll remove it

[odawgg]

Well this is disappointing, haha. The questions still look good, thanks for all the work you put into them.

 

Wish I could please everyone, I think there's some good stuff in there though and there's a good amount of info on BG even if it's not the primary focus. Sorry PVP healers!

[oaceen]

i think another good point to make is we probably won't see any balance changes until after every specific AC has had a chance to ask their questions, so i wouldn't worry overmuch about not getting to ask something now.

[odawgg]

i really like the format of these questions, actually.

 

 

i have one suggestion for question 1 in that we probably should not focus on nightmare progression because only a small percentage of the population participates in this. i think instead it should just be a generalized 'end-game content' or simply 'progression raiding' question.

i also still feel that we shouldn't be telling them 'hey, we'll give up some utility if we can do more damage', but i think they can at least dispel (again) the perception of a hybrid tax

 

i have a feeling that they'll give us a response in the same vein as laz target (ie: 'it's on a long cooldown because it can be used on anything'), but at least we'll have an answer for it. i think going with the cooldown question is good because we're covering the main issue with healing in question 3

 

I went back and forth on the 'give up some utility' comment myself, i'll revisit it and see if that's how i want to word it. As far as focusing on nightmare...well, I'm kinda with AMightyKnight in that it's the only real way to compare us as "viable" cuz you can really bring just about any class into SM/HM even if one is more desirable than another...Nightmare really tests the limits of each AC and that's where a lot of ACs including Mercs weaknesses surface.

 

Edit: I'll take a look at your revisions, I'm heading out the door into my nice Friday afternoon traffic-heavy drive home from work.

 

Edit: I'll also look at your edits Knight, I think I saw a couple pages back that you found some typos

Edited September 14, 2013 by odawgg

[odawgg]

We're probably over thinking some things lol... We're all trying to predict how they're gonna answer based on historical evidence and trying to preemptively counter it, but in the end they will know what we're getting at and will respond the way they do.

[ArchangelLBC]

I'd probably change

 

The Commando ammo display makes QoL worse. It’s difficult to scan quickly for your current ammo level and where the next ability will leave your resources at. We hope something can be done, like a 1-100 scale used by Mercs.

 

to

 

The Commando ammo display makes QoL worse because it doesn't display a numerical value for the amount of ammo you have remaining.Because of this, It’s difficult to scan quickly for your current ammo level and where the next ability will leave your resources at. We hope something can be done, like a 1-100 scale used by Mercs.

 

Only because while we all know what we mean when we say "commando ammo display", I don't take it for granted that the devs understand what we mean, and I want to be as clear as possible. The wording is clunkier this way though, but I'd at least mention the exact issue we're having.

[odawgg]

I'd probably change...snip

 

Done!

[odawgg]

i have one suggestion for question 1 in that we probably should not focus on nightmare progression because only a small percentage of the population participates in this. i think instead it should just be a generalized 'end-game content' or simply 'progression raiding' question. i also still feel that we shouldn't be telling them 'hey, we'll give up some utility if we can do more damage', but i think they can at least dispel (again) the perception of a hybrid tax

 

I did some redesigning with this in mind

[odawgg]

and speaking of question 3, i made some edits for it.

 

3. Wildcard Question

Resource Management

 

Question:

A big concern/complaint in the merc community revolves around resource management across all specs. How do the devs feel about where the Merc A/C is at regarding heat management? Do you intend to make any changes in the (near?) future to alleviate some of the community’s frustration over heat management?

 

Comments:

Arsenal: Changing the 4pc eliminator set bonus in 2.0 was not well-received by the community. We guess that the intent was to make it usable by both dps specs, but many Arsenal Mercenaries still use the old Dread Guard set bonus because it is easier to manage heat and doesn't result in a dps loss. In fact, it is actually a dps gain up until full Kell Dragon where the dps difference becomes negligible. Simply put, the new set bonus still has the same problem as the old one: it clearly benefits one spec more than the other.

Suggestion: Making a Cylinder-based set bonus would be a perfect solution to this issue so both arsenal and pyro benefit.

 

RNG also plays a big role in our heat management with the Barrage talent, and many players feel the chance to proc Barrage is currently too low.

 

Bodyguard: We still lack the basic ability to heal ourselves with our default heal (Rapid Shots) -- a basic function all the healers have. Our very roundabout way of doing it with Kolto Shell + Peacekeeper, is only minimally useful in PVP, dismal in PVE, and above all else, is not as simple as what the other healers have. If you overextend and drop into low-tier regen, you're punished quite a lot if vent heat or TSO aren't available to help you get back to a manageable level or throw out a big heal while you don't have you heat to do so. You only have rapid shots (small heal) and emergency scan (long cooldown) while you slowly regenerate energy, and no way to speed up the process.

 

In comparison, Operatives can use diagnostic scan and its crits restore energy, and Sorcerers can use consumption, and they also regenerate force at the same rate no matter their force level anyway. Suggestion: Having heat dissipation added to rapid shots when used to heal an ally (could be a solution for Arsenal dps; dissipate on damage). Another suggestion we can think of is some proc that lowers the cooldown of TSO so that it can be used more often.

 

Side Note: The Commando ammo display is a huge QoL issue. It’s difficult to scan quickly for your current ammo level and where the next ability will leave your resources at. We hope something can be done, like a 1-100 scale used by Mercs.

 

 

Done!

[odawgg]

Great work, looks promising.

 

There were some apparent spelling and grammar issues in the frist question though. I tried to correct them without changing anything you wrote. But maybe someone should look it over again.

 

Thank you

[odawgg]

And this is just not true:

 

In regards to the Bodyguard section of the 1st question I made a revision I hope is more accurately phrased

 

"We appear to be designed with single-target healing in mind but we don't feel we have a significant enough advantage in that to make up for our short comings in pro-active healing, AoE heals and QoL."

[odawgg]

Alright folks all done, Questions are finalized and we'll await the response from the Devs.

 

I hope I represented well, it was fun and challenging to do....I pass the torch off to cashogy_reborn whom I know will do a superb job on the next round of questions!

 

Couldn't have done it justice without all your help, thanks again and I'll see ya all on the forums, in game, and/or on the dps charts! hehe

Edited September 14, 2013 by odawgg

[oaceen]

We're probably over thinking some things lol... We're all trying to predict how they're gonna answer based on historical evidence and trying to preemptively counter it, but in the end they will know what we're getting at and will respond the way they do.

 

yeah, i said this in the shadow questions thread and think it applies here as well:

 

 

i think the developers and the discussion occurring after the responses are going relatively well, so even if we get some 'heal to full' type responses, we can air it all out, and EricMusco will march down to the combat team war room and raise hell for us.