The Empire seems to have better writing

[morfius]

No.

 

It has to do with something entirely different :

 

Evil Is Cool

 

Good Is Boring

 

Once you see it, it becomes far too obvious.

 

Dark options in game are more stupid than light ones most of the time.

Have full light & dark ones ... pretty lame both sides.

Some titles and leveling relics don't pay for both ways.

[AshlaBoga]

No.

 

It has to do with something entirely different :

 

Evil Is Cool

 

Good Is Boring

 

Once you see it, it becomes far too obvious.

 

Nooooooooooo!

 

TV Tropes will eat your soul!

[DarthDymond]

Spoilers for Sith Inq. and Planetary Story Arcs.

After playing through SI I found it very odd that there was little to no diplomacy involved, and I kind of expected a lot more manipulation of people to establish a power base and win allies. Instead it was just chasing after artifacts and the like the make myself more powerful in that respect.

 

I've heard this criticism leveled at the Inq. story a lot, but I honestly didn't see it when I played through on my main.

 

The Forcewalker thing was drawn out too much, I completely agree that it took over the storyline more than it should have, but there was still a good amount of building your power base depending on how you play it:

 

Nar Shadda: turning a simple "go fetch this artifact" mission into gaining a cult that worships you personally.

End of Act I: Gaining control of Zash's power base (until Thanaton went and pretty much wiped it out).

The Silencer missions: Gain several Moffs and Admirals as allies, gain your own Superweapon.

 

But I think the biggest thing for me is that the Planetary quests felt like you were building a power base all along as well:

 

Tatooine: You gained the loyalty of a group of Imp. Reclamation Service members, replacing Darth Silthar as the Sith they were loyal to.

Alderaan: Installing House Thul as the leaders of Alderaan, for which they are then beholden to you.

Belsavis: Freeing the Dread Masters to learn their considerable powers (yeah, that one didn't work out quite as planned... but hey, Sith happens)

Voss: You became a quasi-religious figure to the Voss as the first outsider Mystic and fulfilling their prophecy.

Corellia: For me the entire planetary arc on Corellia was all about securing Darth Decimus as an ally leading up the showdown with Thanaton, with the added bonus of installing a puppet Prime Minister of Corellia who you know you can intimidate/manipulate (until General Konya went and lost the planet).

Makeb: Securing an alliance with fellow Dark Council member Darth Marr, forming a significant power bloc.

 

Even with the setbacks you run into, between this and gaining two apprentices, I'd say you build yourself a nice personal power base by the time you gain control of the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge.

[hadoken]

Darkside Imperial Makeb didn't make any sense at all to me. It's like the writers forgot that they included this whole daily endgame after you finish the planetary quests and

killing off the entire planet doesn't remotely mesh with those dailies.

Or that they weren't writing quests for a single player game.

Edited September 3, 2013 by hadoken

[Euphrosyne]

Because the Empire pays better and doesn't hamper bounty hunters with anywhere near as much red tape as the Republic. The EU spells it out pretty clearly.

You get gobs of random sidequests on most Pub worlds from soldiers willing to pay a minor bounty for a completed mission without contractor authorizations, competitive bidding, or military oversight. The idea that the Republic requires more red tape than the Empire for bounties isn't really borne out by the game itself. But that's not really what I was getting at.

 

There are loads of minor powers in the galaxy, plus a vast criminal underworld. It's not a binary Empire/Republic thing. Yet the Hunter spends all his time being a good little errand boy for Moffs and Sith Lords; after Tatooine, virtually all his interactions with the likes of the Hutts or the Exchange involve the latter staring down the business end of his blaster. His position is virtually indistinguishable from somebody in the Imperial hierarchy. All those dialogue options about how he's a free agent, and yet the only real demonstration of that comes at the end of Chapter III.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Nooooooooooo!

 

TV Tropes will eat your soul!

 

Actually, I have spent 2 full afternoons reading through their database.

 

It's simply impressive what they have collected there. More than impressive. It's like Elementary School For Writers.

 

EVERY DEVELOPERS should be SENTENCED to read through that BEFORE making any game !

Edited September 3, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[AlrikFassbauer]

What if feels like, overall, is that the Empire's side was made first and its Republic mirrors added later, some of them outright in a rush.

 

Yes. This is very visible oce you've managed to get a look for it.

 

It also applies to architecture. Just take a look at the Fleet Station :

 

Empire : Stylish, very good design, colours that fir into the overall look, decorating design elements - and on top of it all that moving thing hovering the mittle circle !

 

Republic : Mud-brown (just don't want to use a really bad word for that kind of colour) everywhere, a few colorful advertisements - that's it.

Less cargo bays, less decorating elements, less overall good-lookung design, the crafting stuff traders stand just around on the Republic Fleet meanwhile in the Empire's Fleet they have full carts, everything's just lackluster in general. Plus, meanwhile the Empire manages to create a certain feeling of gloom with the overall design of the Fleet Station, the Republic Station hasn't got any feeling. Everything just looks and feels so bland and lifeless. There is no feeling generated by the - wait - non-existing overall Republic design.

And then there's Dromund Kaas. Great jungle-like planet vibrating with life and endless explorer possibilities - Coruscant = mass hack & slay. No exploring necessary or even wanted.

And the last straw was for me the giant temple on Dromund Kaas. Just great. Republic ?Destroyed (Jedi Temple). That says it all.

 

The overall design philosophy for Empire vs. Republic is so much open/clear (just a little bit exaggerated) :

 

Empire : At the height of their power, grand desins, full of life, excellent design, everything just in great shape.

Republic : Losses, destruction, the Republc is almost done. They even have no money for painting the fleet in colours. No life, they are drained from people, and what people are there ( = refugees), must be killed, too (Coruscant hack & slay).

 

This implies that - to show that the Empire is on the height of its power - the Empire was done first, because it didn't suffer ANY war losses or war destruction, which means that everything is richly detailed, great in design, nothing disturbed whjatsoever.

 

And the Republic . Needless to put any work into that, because everything's been destroyed, Republic has lost everything, people have fled, and they've been running out of money.

 

This becomes so clear if you know what the background decistions are. And - you can see it everywhere.

[Spamfritter]

I think all the stories are pretty solid on both sides. The Consular has the worst story as it doesn't make sense when played dark side. Anyway the story does have it's low points but finishes off fairly nicely I thought.

 

The Sith Warrior and Jedi Knight's definitely have the most classic Star Wars experiences and surely intertwine more directly than other stories do. For this reason I put them above the rest, but all of them are pretty solid for the most part.

[hadoken]

Yes. This is very visible oce you've managed to get a look for it.

...

This becomes so clear if you know what the background decistions are. And - you can see it everywhere.

 

In terms of the beta we were actually able to test Republic stuff prior to Imperial. So it seemed to indicate the opposite, but sad truth that the Republic was intentionally designed to be "boring" in comparison - not because they were out of time/effort.

 

You can still see this on Korriban actually (the last starter world to get implemented) where if you don't use any xp boosters you barely (and sometimes don't) hit level 10 before leaving the planet. Compared to Hutta or the others where 12 is regularly possible.

[Devrius]

I have 8 characters, 4 in each faction in mirror classes (juggernaut imp = sentinel pub and so on).

 

I have to agree imps have better writing, the reason? Pubs setting is all wrong.

 

The starting planets are the 1st time (and not the last time) we are shown "the dark side of the republic", we are introduced to:

- soldiers having refugees, who they are supposed to protect, run through a mine field for food...

- the Republic putting the war front above the needs of their people

- stealing medicine back from refugees and letting them die.

- a man building his own drugged up harem out of widows.

- destroying a padawan's future as a Jedi because his master was such a d-bag he didn't make the test clear at all.

- separating two lovers

- betrayal of a famous military group because they were left for dead in a previous mission.

and so on.

 

Clearly the Republic is a better place to be in then the Empire...

 

While questing on the imp side we face our lot of evil deeds, but no matter how bad they get (and they get pretty bad) those are "expected" of the evil empire out for universal conquest, which makes playing light side on the imp side very rewarding. A single quote from Alderaan says it all: "I have more light then you'll ever have *and* I love".

 

Playing pubs light side with the background of duplicity and corruption of the Republic makes you look like a hypocrite and dark side like "one of them".

 

In contrast, playing a light side imp is downright heroic and going dark side is "normal".

 

 

In conclusion: if the good guys are just a little less evil then the bad guys storytelling for the good guys is gonna suffer in emotional resonance.

[Drudenfusz]

Titles of Knight

 

Light sided knights get Master title at the end of their story... dark I thing - General.

 

Nope, not in the game, was removed at the end of the beta. Regardless how light or dark you go, every Knight gets the title of Master.

[Jrea]

Your not wrong. The empire deffinatly has some better class stories. I think they might have done that on purpose to avoid everyone wanting to play the republic.

 

My Rank for the Best Class Stories; (top 3 Empire)

 

1. Agent

2. Warrior

3. Inquisitor

4. Knight

5. Smuggler

6. Bounty Hunter

7. Trooper

......................

22. Jedi Consular

Edited September 3, 2013 by Jrea

[pauljc]

It think it's pretty hard to argue that the devs hate the Republic when the Republic pretty much spends the entire story marching from triumph to triumph. I mean really, Satele must be thinking "man, what was I worried about? We should've attacked these pansies years ago."

 

If the Empire seems cooler it's just because it's actually a unique and novel society, instead of America in Space.

[Heal-To-Full]

In terms of the beta we were actually able to test Republic stuff prior to Imperial. So it seemed to indicate the opposite, but sad truth that the Republic was intentionally designed to be "boring" in comparison - not because they were out of time/effort.

Maybe.

 

But what matters is not the essentially manual labor of making the models and painting the textures. It's the very early design decisions, even prior to making the design documentation, that define this distinction. Big time developers don't make decisions as they go, these have to be all written down early on, all you can do later is maybe trim some stuff.

 

There is a lot of things that just click better on the Imperial side. Overall story, naming for combat moves and mechanics, some animations. Maybe subjective, but Rage built up in combat makes more sense than Focus; the RT/BH management makes more sense as Heat than as Ammo. They even had to redesign Ammo eventually.

 

 

... lightsabers burn wound and there - no blood.

You can cauterize a cheek scrap.

You can't cauterize a chopped-off head.

 

If the Empire seems cooler it's just because it's actually a unique and novel society, instead of America in Space.

European Union in Space.

 

Not America, which is a pretty interesting society by modern standards. Other than their lower moral standards, the Republic is far more like the EU.

[AshlaBoga]

Actually, I have spent 2 full afternoons reading through their database.

 

It's simply impressive what they have collected there. More than impressive. It's like Elementary School For Writers.

 

EVERY DEVELOPERS should be SENTENCED to read through that BEFORE making any game !

 

Ja. I've spent much much more than two afternoons on TV Tropes. It's a fantastic site.

[Drudenfusz]

European Union in Space.

 

Not America, which is a pretty interesting society by modern standards. Other than their lower moral standards, the Republic is far more like the EU.

I always see the Republic as my native Germany (which is also a federal Republic), and during the movies it is basically Germany as Weimar Republic (prequel trilogy) in transition to Nazi Germany (original trilogy).

[DarthOvertone]

The Sith Warrior and Imperial Agent stories are so good, they just blow everything else away.

 

I haven't finished the Jedi Knight story yet. I'm on Chapter 3 and it's been pretty rock solid so far, but it's nowhere near the caliber of the SW and IA stories. Maybe the finale will make up for it, but that's going to have to be amazing considering the SW and IA finales were pretty exceptional.

 

The only story in game I absolutely did not enjoy was the Trooper story. After Chapter One, it was just sort of aimless and completely uninteresting. I will never run that story again. All of the others had some depth though and are worth playing through multiple times imo.

[joshohelp]

The Sith Warrior and Imperial Agent stories are so good, they just blow everything else away.

 

I haven't finished the Jedi Knight story yet. I'm on Chapter 3 and it's been pretty rock solid so far, but it's nowhere near the caliber of the SW and IA stories. Maybe the finale will make up for it, but that's going to have to be amazing considering the SW and IA finales were pretty exceptional.

 

The only story in game I absolutely did not enjoy was the Trooper story. After Chapter One, it was just sort of aimless and completely uninteresting. I will never run that story again. All of the others had some depth though and are worth playing through multiple times imo.

 

The trooper story is my favorite one.

 

Really for liking the stories it all comes down to preference and what you think is a good story and which class you started out as.

 

So, I started out as the trooper so i like the action movie - military type stories which also translates to the imperial agent story.

 

I'm playing a Consular and sith inquisitor right now and i'm enjoying their stories because it's a break from the action packed stories and it's more focused on the personal "The ways of the force" nature of a story.

[Master-Nala]

Maybe you should go back to the game and take a look on the Imperial Agent story, that feels much more heroic then the republic ones, and has very little to do with wantever your fancy is.

 

Having done the Agent story twice, I disagree. Whatever else I would say about the Agent story "heroic" is pretty close to last.

 

I think the empire works better, because the stories can evoke more emotions, the republic is often to rational and very few choices really feel like choices. One of the few stories I liked on republic side is the companion story the trooper gets with Aric Jorgan. While the empire, pertty much everyone meets Thana Vesh and most end up loving or hating her. The emotional build up is there better. As republic you get pretty much told from the beginning you are awesome, so my character has less of an arc, while being a slave on the empire and watch me rise to power feels different. And then of course all the revenge stories, I am a sucker for those (Hamlet is still my favourite story), and the empire has plenty of them. While the Sith you kill as a Jedi rarely mean anything, they just feel like cannon fodder, and that includes all the losrs and whathaveyou. Maybe Kilran and Malgus are the rare exceptions, but both are in flashpoints and one can be killed by both factions.

 

I disagree. The Republic gives you some seriously tough alignment choices and puts the characters in situations where the right thing to do isn't as simple as pressing the LS option. Especially the Trooper and Consular stories. There are very good reasons to do a lot of morally questionable things in those stories.

 

The Inquisitor story, you mention is probably the worst of the game IMO. There is absolutely no sensible justification for the final enemy to have it in for you. The game even says at one point "He does not need a reason." which is a cop-out answer.

 

The Sith Warrior story was superb, the Agent good, BH great until Act II, and the Inquisitor...meh. But I don't like them any better than the Smuggler, Trooper or Consular stories.

 

My 2 credits.

[Master-Nala]

Writing has been discussed already.

What if feels like, overall, is that the Empire's side was made first and its Republic mirrors added later, some of them outright in a rush. Deliberate, thought-out, proactive class lines; detailed and original planet stories.

Most of the Republic's stories are reactive. "The Empire is doing what? We must go there and stop them!"

 

I'll bet you anything, it's the reverse. It's absolutely clear to me that the Republic story was written first and designed carefully to lead to the outcome of the Republic winning the war.

 

I swear I'll never understand why people think the devs spent more time on the Empire or that they favor that side. If anything, the game is designed for the Republic with the Empire as a necessary evil. Think about it. Most of the time, the Empire gets the planets and sides that no one has every heard of.

 

Who gets to have Mos Eisley on Tatooine? - Republic

Who gets to side with the eventual winner in Alderaan? - Republic

Who gets the ancient capital seen in the movies and featured in most EU material? - Republic

 

Then think about final bosses:

 

Republic

 

 

Jedi Knight - THE EMPEROR

Jedi Consular - The First Son of the Emperor (and one of your mentors)

Smuggler - One of the Imperial top admirals and leader of the underworld

Trooper - The Empire's Top General

 

 

Empire

 

 

Sith Warrior - Your former master, a member of the Dark Council

Sith Inqusitor - Your former masters, master, a member of the Dark Council

Imperial Agent - Ummm... some girl spy with gender identity issues

Bounty Hunter - The Republic Supreme Chancellor (which is pretty cool) or a random Darth (not so cool)

 

 

The Republic final bosses lead to serious gains for the Republic while the Imps wind up hurting their side as much or more than the Republic.

 

Sure, I see why people LIKE the Imperial side more, but why they think it's favored is beyond me.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Master-Nala

[Drudenfusz]

Having done the Agent story twice, I disagree. Whatever else I would say about the Agent story "heroic" is pretty close to last.

Have played it only once, and was pretty light (sure, I did also quite a few dark side choices, but most of them were only about mindless destruction and killing, so light got plenty more). I think it depends vastly o how heroic it feels when you decide to be against Darth Jadus. Also, being pretty much the only one against a galactic conspiracy at the end felt quite heroic to me, the kind of heroism that never becomes widely known, but still is saving the galaxy. I liked that.

 

I disagree. The Republic gives you some seriously tough alignment choices and puts the characters in situations where the right thing to do isn't as simple as pressing the LS option. Especially the Trooper and Consular stories. There are very good reasons to do a lot of morally questionable things in those stories.

I can't remember that I was a single time tempted with my Consular, the trooper had a few choices that were mildly tempting (and I took a few choices in the dark side direction, but with the exception of Jaxo I never had the feeling that I sacrifice anything for those choices).

 

The Inquisitor story, you mention is probably the worst of the game IMO. There is absolutely no sensible justification for the final enemy to have it in for you. The game even says at one point "He does not need a reason." which is a cop-out answer.

I had that feeling at the end of chapter I of the Consular story. Not so much with the enemy, but with the Jedi Council. They are fully aware that My character is the only one who can heal people of that, but still they send me alone, not a single member of the council joins me, that is more than stupid risking the entire Jedi Order by doing so, and I still don't understand why not a single one could get his/her butt up to save the day. Wonder how that order could survive a few thousand years more, with such morons leading it.

[Euphrosyne]

I'll bet you anything, it's the reverse. It's absolutely clear to me that the Republic story was written first and designed carefully to lead to the outcome of the Republic winning the war.

 

I swear I'll never understand why people think the devs spent more time on the Empire or that they favor that side. If anything, the game is designed for the Republic with the Empire as a necessary evil. Think about it. Most of the time, the Empire gets the planets and sides that no one has every heard of.

 

Who gets to have Mos Eisley on Tatooine? - Republic

I agree with basically all of your post, but I would like to note that the Republic's base on Tatooine is at Anchorhead, not Mos Eisley. The Empire controls Mos Ila and Mos Anek.

[Master-Nala]

Have played it only once, and was pretty light (sure, I did also quite a few dark side choices, but most of them were only about mindless destruction and killing, so light got plenty more). I think it depends vastly o how heroic it feels when you decide to be against Darth Jadus. Also, being pretty much the only one against a galactic conspiracy at the end felt quite heroic to me, the kind of heroism that never becomes widely known, but still is saving the galaxy. I liked that.

 

For me, the light side choices expose the Empire as sick and rotten to the core, unworthy of saving. After Act II, I had no further allegiance to the Empire and just wanted out. I like that the story gives you that....sorta. While I think the Agent story was good, I feel that a 'heroic' person wouldn't be in Imperial Intelligence. Like Kaliyo says, "They're scare of you. You're the freakin' secret police."

 

 

I had that feeling at the end of chapter I of the Consular story. Not so much with the enemy, but with the Jedi Council. They are fully aware that My character is the only one who can heal people of that, but still they send me alone, not a single member of the council joins me, that is more than stupid risking the entire Jedi Order by doing so, and I still don't understand why not a single one could get his/her butt up to save the day. Wonder how that order could survive a few thousand years more, with such morons leading it.

 

The same could be said for any of the classes. Why do they send a lone agent after the mastermind of the terrorists? Or after a Galactic wide conspiracy? And how the hell does said conspiracy get stopped by one girl/guy with a little help from home base? This conspiracy has existed for centuries, right? How is it even plausible that it could be dismantled so thoroughly in months?

 

Why? Because the Agent is awesome. Because the Consular and Trooper and Warrior are awesome. Because you're the main character. You're the protagonist. Not Satele or Syo or Watcher or Zash.

 

But even if you don't buy that excuse, it's pretty clear that the members of the Jedi council had other stuff to do just from the other stories and there's no way that Syo would so overtly help the Consular for reasons that become clear later on.

[Master-Nala]

I agree with basically all of your post, but I would like to note that the Republic's base on Tatooine is at Anchorhead, not Mos Eisley. The Empire controls Mos Ila and Mos Anek.

 

That's right. Got those confused.

[Drudenfusz]

For me, the light side choices expose the Empire as sick and rotten to the core, unworthy of saving. After Act II, I had no further allegiance to the Empire and just wanted out. I like that the story gives you that....sorta. While I think the Agent story was good, I feel that a 'heroic' person wouldn't be in Imperial Intelligence. Like Kaliyo says, "They're scare of you. You're the freakin' secret police."

I understand now the perception difference. Sure, the empire is pretty corrupt, but so is the Republic (the SIS appears to be far more ruthless the the imperial intelligience). I had the feeling I have to stay with the empire, because they need me as a conscience, and that my reports can keep the sith lords reasonable and not making everything worse. Ijust couldn't turn my back on the galaxy and watch it burn. I am there for the people of the empire, not a tool for the higher ups! Working the system from the inside instead of abandoning all that. I just couldn't do that, and that urge to stay there, felt heroic.

 

The same could be said for any of the classes. Why do they send a lone agent after the mastermind of the terrorists? Or after a Galactic wide conspiracy? And how the hell does said conspiracy get stopped by one girl/guy with a little help from home base? This conspiracy has existed for centuries, right? How is it even plausible that it could be dismantled so thoroughly in months?

 

Why? Because the Agent is awesome. Because the Consular and Trooper and Warrior are awesome. Because you're the main character. You're the protagonist. Not Satele or Syo or Watcher or Zash.

 

But even if you don't buy that excuse, it's pretty clear that the members of the Jedi council had other stuff to do just from the other stories and there's no way that Syo would so overtly help the Consular for reasons that become clear later on.

Sure, with Syo you are right, but I think that could have been better foreshadowed there. That Satele is staying and do nothing still felt wrong. And no, that other classes also have their own suicidal solo missions is not the same. It is about the future of the entire order, and if anything goes wrong I am the only hope. Nobody would even notice if my agent got killed against the conspiracy, and plenty of other class quest feel the same, sure, you are the hero, but should you fail the situation becomes not that much worse, they send just someone else. I am not sure (have to try it next time I play a trooper again), but even should I fail most of my tasks in Chapter 3, I still guess it would not become impossible to get it finished.

 

On the other hand, I really thing it would have been awesome if Satele joins me for that mission, like Thana joins imps on Taris... now that I am thinking about it, someone should tell BioWare this, guess they could implement this.