Ushuma-Orbi Posted August 25, 2013 Posted August 25, 2013 According to the Q&A in the "Cantina Tour" posted by Dulfy here we have "weird" stats in our gear because: "12.Weird stats on some gear (like alacrity on tank stuff), to encourage people to min/max their gear." And we don't deserve more PvP content because: "13.The reason why there is not as much PvP content as PvE content is, that PvE allways need new content to clear, while PvPers are generally happy, "as long as there is someone to kill". Good job BW, good job!! Kind regards!
Kamansus Posted August 25, 2013 Posted August 25, 2013 They were explaining that PvE requires a relatively constant supply of new content in the form of operations/flashpoints/planets because those systems are static and don't change from one encounter to the next. PvP on the other hand is dynamic, each game changing not only because of the map but because of the players and tactics they utilize against each other. People here should know this, hardcore PvPers ramble on about it enough in their argument of "PvP > PvE!". And did people not know that they put imperfect stats on gear on purpose? It's to give incentive to min/max by putting more effort into the game. Aherpderpderp. These are both commonly accepted concepts within the MMO industry. I'm sorry if it's a revelation to you. Bioware has no idea how to run a MMO. Except, as I said, this shows that they apparently do. If you're looking for people who don't know how MMOs should work look no further than these forums.
deets Posted August 25, 2013 Posted August 25, 2013 if you think about it PVE is repetitive where as PVP is always a challenge because nothing stays the same. well, the maps are but its PVP not you versus a computer doing the same thing. stand here and shoot there, pvp takes more because each human plays differently thus more fun.
FrogSkin Posted August 25, 2013 Posted August 25, 2013 Take note at the bottom that Ranked WarZones returning is high. It also depends on how well Ranked Arenas are used.
RougeBeaver Posted August 25, 2013 Posted August 25, 2013 According to the Q&A in the "Cantina Tour" posted by Dulfy here we have "weird" stats in our gear because: "12.Weird stats on some gear (like alacrity on tank stuff), to encourage people to min/max their gear." And we don't deserve more PvP content because: "13.The reason why there is not as much PvP content as PvE content is, that PvE allways need new content to clear, while PvPers are generally happy, "as long as there is someone to kill". Good job BW, good job!! Kind regards! At the risk of sounding like a white knight, all you're doing is putting words in their mouth. They simply gave the answer to a question, that's all. They did not outright declare PvPers don't deserve any development forethought. (Although with all the crying and moaning that goes on, I might be one to declare they don't, lol.) Hate to break this to you, cupcake, but PvP-focused players are in the minority against PvEers, as well as people who enjoy doing both such as myself. Sure, they could shift the game's focus into PvP if they wanted to lose more money by denying PvEers what they want. That wouldn't take them very far, tho. And the PvPers would still whine and complain about everything. I don't see the benefit of taking that action, do you? All things considered, the PvP in this game is pretty decent. Always look forward to more goodies, yes indeedy. Better than being a negative nancy all the time. Could always quit if it doesn't meet your satisfaction, no?
AlrikFassbauer Posted August 25, 2013 Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) According to the Q&A in the "Cantina Tour" posted by Dulfy here we have "weird" stats in our gear because: "12.Weird stats on some gear (like alacrity on tank stuff), to encourage people to min/max their gear." I remember another quote from the event : I remember saying that "everyone should be able to do what they want". These "weird stats" are only a suggestion, so to say, as far as I understood them. I understood them so that everyone should be able to build their characters the way each player wants to. This doesn't explain why there are "weird stats" in the first place, but on the other hand it doesn't mean that people should be *forced* into a certain kind of build, either. The only real quote about the matter I am able to recall from my memory is that "everyone should be able to do what they want". It's a case of freedom of choice, in the end. This doesn't answer the question as such, but reading between the lines it also means that the devs don't want to take the requirement to choose what it best for the own character from the player. In the end, what only counts is what every player decides for himself/herself. And not some sort of "instant cookie-cutter stats" provided by the devs. If they had given the armor only a fixed set of stats, then there would be clones in terms of stats, and no diversity at all, only diversity in terms of looks. This way, we are forced to make actual conscious choices. Edited August 25, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer
Sammennn Posted August 25, 2013 Posted August 25, 2013 Tried getting a HM Flashpoint on #TOFN 6 Players only queued, NO POP FOR AN ENTIRE HOUR RIP DEAD GAME #PVE IS ALIVE
AngusFTW Posted August 25, 2013 Posted August 25, 2013 Take note at the bottom that Ranked WarZones returning is high. It also depends on how well Ranked Arenas are used. Considering the announcement of them taking 8v8 out caused a lot of pvpers to unsub i do not think this was the best way to go..
Kamansus Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 Considering the announcement of them taking 8v8 out caused a lot of pvpers to unsub i do not think this was the best way to go.. "a lot" is relative. I'd say a minority of PvPers left, PvPers being a minority in general. So not many people left, and I doubt it was even a blip on their radar. The changes they are making are likely to expand the PvP community far more than what they have lost by removing RWZs.
Evolixe Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 (edited) "a lot" is relative. I'd say a minority of PvPers left, PvPers being a minority in general. So not many people left, and I doubt it was even a blip on their radar. The changes they are making are likely to expand the PvP community far more than what they have lost by removing RWZs. Half the people I know quit or are seriously thinking about doing so (and in all honesty most probebly will). Maybe not around you. But ToFN, formerly known as the center of the European PvP scene, is already in-revertably scarred. Edited August 26, 2013 by Evolixe
foxmob Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 They were explaining that PvE requires a relatively constant supply of new content in the form of operations/flashpoints/planets because those systems are static and don't change from one encounter to the next. PvP on the other hand is dynamic, each game changing not only because of the map but because of the players and tactics they utilize against each other. People here should know this, hardcore PvPers ramble on about it enough in their argument of "PvP > PvE!". And did people not know that they put imperfect stats on gear on purpose? It's to give incentive to min/max by putting more effort into the game. Aherpderpderp. These are both commonly accepted concepts within the MMO industry. I'm sorry if it's a revelation to you. Except, as I said, this shows that they apparently do. If you're looking for people who don't know how MMOs should work look no further than these forums. I'm sorry but alacrity on tank gear is unacceptable. crit vs. power. high main stat vs high side stat...those are acceptable "differences." a healer/caster stat on tank gear is absolutely trash.
foxmob Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 "a lot" is relative. I'd say a minority of PvPers left, PvPers being a minority in general. So not many people left, and I doubt it was even a blip on their radar. The changes they are making are likely to expand the PvP community far more than what they have lost by removing RWZs. lol. ok. let's review: new xpac. 5 new levels. every class with new abils. here we are, 4 patches later, getting the first balancing since the xpac. now you tell me, have you ever seen an mmorpg in the history of video games being balanced out of the gate with either A) a brand new game or B) a brand new patch? And what are they doing for this big balance adjustment? fixing a bug for shadows/sins and playing seesaw with the VG/PT dps specs. Now the verdict is still out on whether the VG/PT thing will "work." but there's no way in hell that the only balancing that's called for is VG/PT dps. And this is the same patch that's dumping 8v8 rated for 4v4 rated. nothing against 4v4, but the fewer the teammates, the more magnified each role/player becomes. That means fewer, not more, diversity in arenas. in other words, arenas require closer attention to balance than before. afaik, balance patches have been few and far between, and that's not about to change. personally, I would rather see smaller changes than the sweeping stuff that they like to do.
SOULCASTER Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 Bioware has no idea how to run a MMO. Yes but we knew that within the 1st 2 months of launch.
Tyrth Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 The response to garbage stats on gear is absolutely priceless! It's essentially the EXACT SAME response they gave some of us when asked why they took color match out during mid beta before launch. "we feel that it will encourage players to seek out new and exciting gear" lmao sound familiar?! How lazy...
Arkerus Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 According to the Q&A in the "Cantina Tour" posted by Dulfy here we have "weird" stats in our gear because: "12.Weird stats on some gear (like alacrity on tank stuff), to encourage people to min/max their gear." And we don't deserve more PvP content because: "13.The reason why there is not as much PvP content as PvE content is, that PvE allways need new content to clear, while PvPers are generally happy, "as long as there is someone to kill". Good job BW, good job!! Kind regards! 1. Completely common in MMos 2. Worded in an odd manner but essentially correct. Move along folks and get off the nerd I-know-better-than-bioware soapbox.
bluedevvil Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 We need more pvp content..i don't see how queing for wz all day everyday with only a few different ones is considered fun pvp..not sure why we even have pvp servers really..i have a thread for them to read with few ideas...one thing for sure is if they have pvp only for ques why the hell is there only a few different wz...okay there adding areanas..yes very nice...but all of pvp u have to que for...depressing as hell...they need to get cross server ques for all ques first of all, they need to add more wz to choose from...they really need to make pvp planets with no companions, there are plenty of ways to do it..if u read my thread I have posted there few ideas there...stop listening to all the winy pvers all the time..cause they always ruin game development and in every game always take away from us pvpers in every game...this is a pve game right now...having few wz that u can que from does not make this a pvp game...not even close...think they just need to fire few people in there and hire some with real brains...are just hand it over to someone who knows what there doing.
easeyway Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 (edited) They were explaining that PvE requires a relatively constant supply of new content in the form of operations/flashpoints/planets because those systems are static and don't change from one encounter to the next. PvP on the other hand is dynamic, each game changing not only because of the map but because of the players and tactics they utilize against each other. People here should know this, hardcore PvPers ramble on about it enough in their argument of "PvP > PvE!". And did people not know that they put imperfect stats on gear on purpose? It's to give incentive to min/max by putting more effort into the game. Aherpderpderp. These are both commonly accepted concepts within the MMO industry. I'm sorry if it's a revelation to you. Except, as I said, this shows that they apparently do. If you're looking for people who don't know how MMOs should work look no further than these forums. 1. Yes, and PvP requires constant balance updates to keep that dynamic gameplay going. How many balance updates have they done? 1.2, 2.0? Yeah, they just don't do PvP but can't admit it. 2. Needing to Min/Max doesn't mean you should put mods in gear that are useless. Min/Max should never be a requirement. Another fail here. 3. Oh, these may be common concepts. They are not commonly accepted concepts, however, which can be seen from the slow death of this game. Edited August 26, 2013 by easeyway
PhatMcMuffins Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 You have a perception problem. This is clearly the issue
AngusFTW Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 "a lot" is relative. I'd say a minority of PvPers left, PvPers being a minority in general. So not many people left, and I doubt it was even a blip on their radar. The changes they are making are likely to expand the PvP community far more than what they have lost by removing RWZs. 2 of the biggest guilds on ToFN have basically disbanded because of this news... I'd say at least on this server its a lot and its not just "relative"
NoTomorrow Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 2 of the biggest guilds on ToFN have basically disbanded because of this news... I'd say at least on this server its a lot and its not just "relative" what guilds have disbanded?
AngusFTW Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 (edited) what guilds have disbanded? White noise Reality Check is basically dead on this annoucement. there is probably more guilds that have disbanded over this news. Nostrum are gone also but this was before the announcement. Edited August 26, 2013 by AngusFTW
Kamansus Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 I'm sorry but alacrity on tank gear is unacceptable. crit vs. power. high main stat vs high side stat...those are acceptable "differences." a healer/caster stat on tank gear is absolutely trash. That. is. the. point. It's supposed to have some bad enhancements in such in there so you have to play more to min/max it. So that, you know, effort and skill has rewards rather than "Here's your perfectly stat calculated best in slot armor, good job mindlessly grinding and pressing the right reward!". They've been doing this since game launch, do people not look at the stats on purple gear? Why is this becoming an issue now? Buy some mods and fix it yourself, you'll suddenly be slightly better for it. lol. ok. let's review: new xpac. 5 new levels. every class with new abils. here we are, 4 patches later, getting the first balancing since the xpac. now you tell me, have you ever seen an mmorpg in the history of video games being balanced out of the gate with either A) a brand new game or B) a brand new patch? And what are they doing for this big balance adjustment? fixing a bug for shadows/sins and playing seesaw with the VG/PT dps specs. Now the verdict is still out on whether the VG/PT thing will "work." but there's no way in hell that the only balancing that's called for is VG/PT dps. And this is the same patch that's dumping 8v8 rated for 4v4 rated. nothing against 4v4, but the fewer the teammates, the more magnified each role/player becomes. That means fewer, not more, diversity in arenas. in other words, arenas require closer attention to balance than before. afaik, balance patches have been few and far between, and that's not about to change. personally, I would rather see smaller changes than the sweeping stuff that they like to do. Kind of confused. You complain that they're not making enough serious changes to balance...but then say that you'd prefer smaller changes. And honestly, if they were to focus on balancing one AC it should be vanguard. Assault has been the worst dps spec in the game since the 2.0 nerfs. Its burst from AP was completely neutered and it needs fixed relatively badly. I'm sure they're planning other changes to the classes to bring them better into line for arenas but they're probably going to wait until they've actually seen how arenas play out for the different ACs before doing anything too drastic. And really, balance in this game isn't that bad compared to other MMOs besides the occasional exception like VG/PT dps. But I'm not sure how this relates to the new solo and 4v4 ranked arena queues likelihood of increasing PvP participation. 1. Yes, and PvP requires constant balance updates to keep that dynamic gameplay going. How many balance updates have they done? 1.2, 2.0? Yeah, they just don't do PvP but can't admit it. 2. Needing to Min/Max doesn't mean you should put mods in gear that are useless. Min/Max should never be a requirement. Another fail here. 3. Oh, these may be common concepts. They are not commonly accepted concepts, however, which can be seen from the slow death of this game. Hoboi. 1. Nobody will ever be happy with balance and balance changes. If they started throwing in badly thought out balance changes every patch people would be even unhappier and the delicate web of balance that they've constructed since launch would fall apart. Or did you think that balancing the eight different advanced classes with their arrays of mostly unique skills was easy? Is this your first MMO? What paradise do you hail from where balance is constantly screwed with and yet always perfect? 2. How is it a requirement? You can play fine without min/maxing, but some of us like a way to put extra effort in for a slight advantage. Isn't that how competitive games are supposed to work? But no, please, throw around opinion as fact. It's fine, I don't mind. 3. Because the turbulent launch of this game had something to do with PvE being prioritized over PvP updates and gear not perfectly min/maxed at the vendor? That's quite the stretch. The game also seems perfectly healthy at the moment between the stabilized subscriber base and the cartel market doing well. 2 of the biggest guilds on ToFN have basically disbanded because of this news... I'd say at least on this server its a lot and its not just "relative" Okay, define "biggest guilds". Because in my experience the biggest guilds are 500 player noob guilds that recruit on Korriban/Tython for the rep/xp bonuses. I assume you meant "the most srs bsns PvP guilds" in which case...okay? I wonder what fraction of a percent of the player base that adds up to. I can't see the removal of RWZs for arenas causing that large of a player backlash. One point seven percent of the warzone pops were ranked. That is less than one in fifty on the PvP minority side of things. It was a highly exclusive system with a high bar of entry that never functioned well, I assure you that the vast majority of players won't and don't care outside of the PvP forum.
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