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Sniper Class Rep Initiative: Following up on BioWare's #1 Sniper answer

paowee

By paowee
in The Harbinger

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ssfish

ssfish

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With the timers listed in that thread, this would be a slight nerf for Marksman in regards to total overall damage in a number of fights (basically, unless the fight lasts longer than 5 minutes but less than 6, it is an overall decrease in dealt; as soon as you hit the 6 minute mark and get your 7th Lazed Snipe in against just 3 Lazed Ambushes with the new cooldown, the old version wins out)
paowee

paowee

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With the timers listed in that thread, this would be a slight nerf for Marksman in regards to total overall damage in a number of fights (basically, unless the fight lasts longer than 5 minutes but less than 6, it is an overall decrease in dealt; as soon as you hit the 6 minute mark and get your 7th Lazed Snipe in against just 3 Lazed Ambushes with the new cooldown, the old version wins out)

 

The DPS gain/loss is so miniscule, that prior to this proposal people would say that laze target is an almost non-existent DPS gain anyways.

 

I like this change particularly for the PVP side of the sniper community. Thanks for your input tho, i'll edit the proposal to lobby for a 100% increase in CD instead of 200%.

 

It may be a slight nerf to MM but it is a good buff to Engi and Lethality (i would think). Keeping a 2 -year old, relatively unessential cooldown to make it do miniscule DPS for ONE spec is not a good argument to prohibiting a positive change for the other 2 specializations of the class.

 

imo.

Edited by paowee
ssfish

ssfish

Posted
Posted (edited)
The DPS gain/loss is so miniscule, that prior to this proposal people would say that laze target is an almost non-existent DPS gain anyways.

 

I like this change particularly for the PVP side of the sniper community. Thanks for your input tho, i'll edit the proposal to lobby for a 100% increase in CD instead of 200%.

 

It may be a slight nerf to MM but it is a good buff to Engi and Lethality (i would think). Keeping a 2 -year old, relatively unessential cooldown to make it do miniscule DPS for ONE spec is not a good argument to prohibiting a positive change for the other 2 specializations of the class.

 

imo.

 

I wrote my thoughts out and prepared to submit it in your thread on the Sniper forums, but realized that my opinions are entirely selfish from the standpoint of a PvE MM sniper. I don't play the other specs (honestly don't care to learn them, nor is it needed) and I don't PvP on the Sniper.

 

I see the value of the change for Lethality in particular (which is a spec I would play with if it got some love), but selfishly, I just want what I am accustomed to to stay the way it is. :p

 

Edit: As far as "miniscule," we're talking a range of 40-50 DPS in a 5 minute fight with the current Laze. I'll let you decide whether that qualifies as "miniscule."

Edited by ssfish
paowee

paowee

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I wrote my thoughts out and prepared to submit it in your thread on the Sniper forums, but realized that my opinions are entirely selfish from the standpoint of a PvE MM sniper. I don't play the other specs (honestly don't care to learn them, nor is it needed) and I don't PvP on the Sniper.

 

I see the value of the change for Lethality in particular (which is a spec I would play with if it got some love), but selfishly, I just want what I am accustomed to to stay the way it is. :p

 

Edit: As far as "miniscule," we're talking a range of 40-50 DPS in a 5 minute fight with the current Laze. I'll let you decide whether that qualifies as "miniscule."

 

I based "miniscule" from what others said during the week of sniper discussion. I am guilty of not testing it myself (because doh i had enough job as it is doing this rep job on top of IRL stuff). But since you claimed it is 40-50 DPS, where is your supporting evidence. 40-50 DPS if you keep Laze Target on cooldown over 5 minutes as Full MM? Can i see comparison parses?

 

It can be determined by doing:

5 minutes dummy with LT on CD

5 minutes dummy with no LT.

 

Rotation: snipe snipt ft - ambush ft - sos ft (for 5 minutes, no other cds, no relics, no armor pen, no corrosive dart)

 

Looking forward to it :)

Edited by paowee
ssfish

ssfish

Posted
Posted (edited)

Or by doing simple math:

 

Snipe does in the ballpark of 2.8-3k non-crit. (Based upon my Sniper's gear, which is full-UW)

 

Assuming 70% surge, a 2.8k Snipe would crit for 4760, near enough to the 2k that I used for my napkin math.

 

2k damage * 6 crit snipes over 5 minutes = 12000 damage.

 

12000 damage / 300 seconds = 40 DPS. (side note: 50 may have been a bit high for the upper range, 44-45% is likely a accurate more high-point at the 5 minute mark)

 

*This, of course, is not factoring in power adrenal/relics. It's also assuming a low Surge rating at only 70%.

 

(I'm' not near consistent enough in my rotation to be able to do side-by-side parses, so I have to make my determinations based on what I see on paper. If those of you that play the class better than I care to test on the dummy, feel free.)

Edited by ssfish
CJNJ

CJNJ

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Posted
Um just being abit nitpicky but wouldn't it only be 5 over 5 minutes, as the 6th wouldn't actually fall under the 300 seconds unless you clicked the buff before you actually started.
ssfish

ssfish

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Posted
Um just being abit nitpicky but wouldn't it only be 5 over 5 minutes, as the 6th wouldn't actually fall under the 300 seconds unless you clicked the buff before you actually started.

 

It lasts long enough that I assumed this to be the case.... OS > Laze > Ambush > Shatter Shot (if needed) > FT > Snipe.

namesaretough

namesaretough

Posted
Posted
Or by doing simple math:

 

Snipe does in the ballpark of 2.8-3k non-crit. (Based upon my Sniper's gear, which is full-UW)

 

Assuming 70% surge, a 2.8k Snipe would crit for 4760, near enough to the 2k that I used for my napkin math.

 

2k damage * 6 crit snipes over 5 minutes = 12000 damage.

 

12000 damage / 300 seconds = 40 DPS. (side note: 50 may have been a bit high for the upper range, 44-45% is likely a accurate more high-point at the 5 minute mark).

 

 

It's even less than that. Assuming ~30-33% crit chance on snipe, two of your six lazes are on snipes that would have crit anyways, statistically. It's more like an 8000 damage increase, or ~27dps. It's still free damage every minute so it should be used on cooldown, and I don't understand anyone who says "it's little enough damage may as well not use it", but overall it's within the run to run RNG variations.

ssfish

ssfish

Posted
Posted
It's even less than that. Assuming ~30-33% crit chance on snipe, two of your six lazes are on snipes that would have crit anyways, statistically. It's more like an 8000 damage increase, or ~27dps. It's still free damage every minute so it should be used on cooldown, and I don't understand anyone who says "it's little enough damage may as well not use it", but overall it's within the run to run RNG variations.

 

True enough, except that there is no way of knowing whether or not those Lazed snipes would have crit (which is different than should, obviously), so your range is then more accurately reflected as zero to ~43 DPS.

paowee

paowee

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Whether it is a ~40-50 or ~27 DPS decrease for Marksmanship/Sharpshooter, do you guys really prefer to keep the current Laze Target compared to Laze Target that works for EP and Takedown (Engi and Lethality)? That is what I like about BW's proposal. Also it can give MM Snipers a stronger on-demand burst in PvP (Lazed Ambush - FT > Lazed Snipe - FT or Lazed Snipe Snipe - FT)

 

MM gives Snipe reduced energy cost(?), more crit chance, (i think more surge as well)

Engi gives Snipe a tiny dot

Lethality gives nothing for Snipe.

 

Laze Target that caters to certain depending on spec (Ambush for MM, EP for Engi, Takedown for Cull) is a neat idea me thinks

Edited by paowee
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