Chocobo_Kramer Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 Hey guys, I just wanted to ask Pot5 PvPers opinions on arena comps. I was thinking of building my team with a Vigilance Guardian, a Vanguard Tank, DPS Telekinetics Sage, and a Scoundrel or Mando healer. Thoughts? PS: Trolls welcome.
Racter Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 DPS guardian and sage are way too squishy imo. i didn't play any teams running either that went well for them. Several times the guardian went down through guard/heals. Sorcs did a little better but mostly only because of barrier.
maverickmatt Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 DPS guardian and sage are way too squishy imo. i didn't play any teams running either that went well for them. Several times the guardian went down through guard/heals. Sorcs did a little better but mostly only because of barrier. To be honest, the only squishy Guardian is the Smasher. Vigilance is much sturdier, but you won't find a) many people that play it (and if they do, theyre playing in Smash gear.. which is much different) and b) know HOW to play it.
cycao Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 To be honest, the only squishy Guardian is the Smasher. Vigilance is much sturdier, but you won't find a) many people that play it (and if they do, theyre playing in Smash gear.. which is much different) and b) know HOW to play it. I agree here, few play it and they play it with poorly itemized gear and don't know how to play it. I do think it can be a viable spec in arenas though.
Dedrayge Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 I agree here, few play it and they play it with poorly itemized gear and don't know how to play it. I do think it can be a viable spec in arenas though. Out of curiosity; What would be the optimal gear for vengeance?
MasterFeign Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Out of curiosity; What would be the optimal gear for vengeance? A tiny bit of crit and accuracy, I imagine. However some have been running with alacrity. The optimal team I can think of an from what I've seen, is probably: -tank jugg -2 rage juggs -op healer Not only do you have 3 taunts but a lot of aoe dps. You also have 4 aoe mezzes. If the enemy team doesn't have a component range dps behind where all te smashers are hitting, then there's little chance of recovery. Alternatively you can switch out one smash for either a carnage Mara or sniper mms. You keep the aoe mezzes but loose 1 taunt.
JediMasterSLC Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Out of curiosity; What would be the optimal gear for vengeance? A few acc pieces (no more than 3), rest surge. For crit/power I would go full power if you can: crit rating is generically inferior, you have no perks in the spec to critting, no surge talents- unlike most specs, and autocrit force scream. You also should get the increased dot crit chance talent and slash/vicious throw crit chance talent in focus tree. Running a couple hundred crit rating is fine but some people are tricked into thinking it's better than full power.
Nickodemous Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) A tiny bit of crit and accuracy, I imagine. However some have been running with alacrity. The optimal team I can think of an from what I've seen, is probably: -tank jugg -2 rage juggs -op healer Not only do you have 3 taunts but a lot of aoe dps. You also have 4 aoe mezzes. If the enemy team doesn't have a component range dps behind where all te smashers are hitting, then there's little chance of recovery. Alternatively you can switch out one smash for either a carnage Mara or sniper mms. You keep the aoe mezzes but loose 1 taunt. Unfortunately, I have not been able to hop on the PTR to check out the arena system due to work. Actually, the past few months have been limited to 1-2 hrs a night so I have been relegated to pugs. This is an interesting team mix though and is one that I would have assume does very well. My past experience in the arena's was burst, burst, and more burst. The instant the match began, the initial target selected was melted. If that did not occur, meaning the target selection was wrong......well, the match normally resulted in a loss. I was thinking carnage maurader, rage jugg x 2 and op healer. Why is there a need for an actual tank? It would seem that the juggs could stance dance and swap guards if necessary. Edited August 22, 2013 by Nickodemous
MasterFeign Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Stance dancing costs a GCD. Without a tank, it was essentially playing the 'melt the healer ASAP game. It was too predictable and easy. With a tank, not only was it hard to kill anything, it causes the enemy team confusion on who they should attack next. But then of course the tank has already adapted and is now guarding the new focused target.
maverickmatt Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 A few acc pieces (no more than 3), rest surge. For crit/power I would go full power if you can: crit rating is generically inferior, you have no perks in the spec to critting, no surge talents- unlike most specs, and autocrit force scream. You also should get the increased dot crit chance talent and slash/vicious throw crit chance talent in focus tree. Running a couple hundred crit rating is fine but some people are tricked into thinking it's better than full power. Sorta.. Talent the 3% accuracy in the Vigilance tree, get 1% from max companion affection, and use ONE accuracy piece (94.97%.. 95% is optimal) 21-22% crit (doesn't really take much.. max that companion affection!!) Might augments Deft x (not AX or BX) mods Adept enhancements with minmaxed conqueror you should wind up with ~2940 Strength, ~830 power, and since Surge is so abundant I wound up at 75% Aside from that it's knowing the procs and knowing what to do when MS fails to proc (again). You can try to follow a rotation but... it's all situational really.
Nickodemous Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Stance dancing costs a GCD. Without a tank, it was essentially playing the 'melt the healer ASAP game. It was too predictable and easy. With a tank, not only was it hard to kill anything, it causes the enemy team confusion on who they should attack next. But then of course the tank has already adapted and is now guarding the new focused target. I see. Thanks for the response. I am really considering getting involved again. I have been freelancing as of late and may need to decide if I am going to focus on tanking or dps! Then find a group! Lol! Anyways, thanks again!
Dedrayge Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) Sounds like if I want to run my jugg in vengeance I just need to switch out the implants and earpiece in favour of more crit and accuracy. Wondered about more crit but didn't really consider more accuracy. I really haven't bothered with the PTS, but, if the arenas happen to have too many objectives and ways to LoS then I can't see MM snipers being a viable option. Lethality on the other hand provides more maneuverability so that might be more viable. I could even see a DPS sorc being a more viable option as well. Even more so since they can double up on heals to ease the pressure on the main healer. I would imagine operative healers would be the only healer anyone would want to take. As for rage juggs over rage marauders, well, juggs do provide extra taunts but marauders just have better survivability options. And although they can't smash as hard, they do have more weapon damage. So, their filler is more likely to hit harder. Plus, their obliterate and force charge come with auto snares meaning no thought has to go into snaring a target. There's also the fact that double saber throw ***** on saber throw. Not only is it on a shorter CD but it hits more targets, deals more damage, and comes with a snare. BW seemed intent and making sure rage marauders are better than rage juggs. Seems they wanted to push juggs away from DPS and into tanking. But honestly, I have more fun DPSing with my jugg than my marauder. I can see carnage marauders being a viable option due to all the burst they can unload. Not only that, I can see their predation helping to act as a counter to people running around objects to LoS. As for vengeance juggs, well, they certainly do come with better survivability options over a rage jugg. Their DoTs do help to some degree with LoS issues. Plus unstoppable is extremely useful and if the other team happens to unload all their stuns on a veng jugg after they force leap, well, the jugg's team just gained an advantage. I wonder about a veng jugg and carnage marauder combo... I'd imagine a tank would be a necessity to protect the healer. As for which tank to go with, well, both PTs and Juggs might be a viable option in a 4vs4 situation. Of course, it may be possible to take in an extra healer over a tank. Perhaps even a sorc that's a healer/DPS hybrid. I don't know, as of I've said I haven't bothered with the PTS nor am I really in a guild at the moment. So, just speculating. Edited August 22, 2013 by Dedrayge
MasterFeign Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) I've tried my vengence jugg on the pts as well. It's a very fun spec, but I feel (as was evident in regular WZs) that I couldn't pull as much DPS as I wish I could. The focus was nice, but I can't do much enemy target slowing (chilling scream is nice, but not good enough, plus it's not free or cheap to use as is in the rage tree, go figure). When I'd try to focus on an op healer, it was pretty useless. It was nice to see them try to stun me after I force jumped them though. Granted I mostly pugged with my jugg, I think it would have been better if my mezzes weren't broken by my teammates. So in the end, I'd say it was one of those wait until what the consensus says. I see. Thanks for the response. I am really considering getting involved again. I have been freelancing as of late and may need to decide if I am going to focus on tanking or dps! Then find a group! Lol! Anyways, thanks again! Tanking on my assassin, was always unfun, that's why I switched to DPS gear when I play darkness. But yeah it's really a matter of preference and otherwise just having fun. I've only briefly tanked on my jugg in pve, so I can't help with much there, but good luck anyway, and you're welcome. Edited August 22, 2013 by MasterFeign
Xinika Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Can't wait till Warriors / OP Medics are nerfed into the ground.
maverickmatt Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Can't wait till Warriors / OP Medics are nerfed into the ground. Lulz @ you. Constantly going on about Shadows anywhere and everywhere you can. This isn't the place for it. Please refer back to the Shadow/Sin forums.... To answer the question of Vigilance Guardian + Combat Sent: It's fantastic. They have a myriad of slows and roots that I don't have, and so I focus their target. The target going NOWHERE, and on top of having to eat some of the Sents burst, now they have to eat mine too. It solves the primary issue with Vigilance (can't stay on target). Any other issue (e.g. not enough damage, focus management problems) I only experienced when first starting with it, and right after 2.0 when things changed a bit. ANYWAYS, back on topic. Teknus' team comp is solid, if the specs are played properly. I like it.
Dedrayge Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Yea, staying on target is where I thought carnage would help vengeance. I've also played vengeance and rage and find both to be fun in their own ways. The utility that comes with vengeance is great. It's just that, rage has much better resource management and some ridiculous burst. Plus obliterate makes it easier to stay on a target. With all the bloody roots, snares, and stuns in this game, being able to pop off of a 7k to 9k attack goes a long way. There have been times where I've been cc'ed or focused so bad all I could do was ololsmash. It felt as if it was the only reason I was of any use to my team. Can't wait till Warriors / OP Medics are nerfed into the ground. Nerf warriors into the ground to the point where their not that viable and majority of the players that prefer melee will quit the game. Warrior/knights are extremely popular from what I've seen. Rage definitely needs to be reworked though. The spec needs to move away from being designed around an aoe attack to a single target attack. Sadly, rage is needed to put pressure on healers seeing as how strong healing is in this game. Especially operative healers who definitely need a nerf. Rage also has the potential to counter act healer + tank combos if the tank happens to be standing too close to the healer. Lot of fixing that needs to be done in this game. =.=
JediMasterSLC Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Sorta.. Talent the 3% accuracy in the Vigilance tree, get 1% from max companion affection, and use ONE accuracy piece (94.97%.. 95% is optimal) 21-22% crit (doesn't really take much.. max that companion affection!!) Might augments Deft x (not AX or BX) mods Adept enhancements with minmaxed conqueror you should wind up with ~2940 Strength, ~830 power, and since Surge is so abundant I wound up at 75% Aside from that it's knowing the procs and knowing what to do when MS fails to proc (again). You can try to follow a rotation but... it's all situational really. Well this is the correct spec imo, so you would need 3 acc pieces to get to almost 95%. As far as needing crit rating, refer to my earlier post.
Xinika Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Warrior/knights are extremely popular from what I've seen. Excellent reason to show the blatant case of favoritism.
InvalidID Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Can't wait till Warriors / OP Medics are nerfed into the ground. The problem is that sentinal/mara is literally the only melee DPS option that is even close to optimal. A far better option would be to buff the defensive options on Op DPS/Shadow DPS/Guardian DPS
Chocobo_Kramer Posted August 23, 2013 Author Posted August 23, 2013 The problem is that sentinal/mara is literally the only melee DPS option that is even close to optimal. A far better option would be to buff the defensive options on Op DPS/Shadow DPS/Guardian DPS In my opinion, Sages need the biggest defensive buff of all. Either that, or make us uninterruptable when running TK. If a mara is constantly interrupting me and eatting my damage with his cd's... Yeah... Nuff said. Or I could run balance with all that fluff damage and stay alive :/
Xinika Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) Alright, well to answer the question on the thread. My comp is Dongception. Edited August 23, 2013 by Xinika
PerronCedric Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 A far better option would be to buff the defensive options on Op DPS/Shadow DPS/Guardian DPS you forgot to mention vanguards/pts
Laforet Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 you forgot to mention vanguards/pts dongbuff viagra patch yolo
orryko Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 i ran something similar one night. it was me as lightning, sorc heals, vengeance, and tank jugg we didn't lose one match, granted i was playing with some very good players. i would say a tank jugg is better than a vanguard hybrid tank because of push and intercede. double push gives lots of windows to burst vigilance/tele has great synergy though because when you are whitebarred and he leaps to a target, it's pretty much unstoppable burst. also great against maras/double melee comps
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