Why Not Call for More Buffs?

[platinumruggo]

First off, let me start off by saying I play main an operative, normally I do concealment, but because the dps on that spec is trash in pretty much every situation that doesn't involve solo capping a node or a door or whatever, I decided to do heals. I do understand everyone's concerns about operative healing, the energy management is laughably easy and we do have a good amount of instant heals which doesn't make interrupting us an easy feat. I have been watching these forums for a very long time, watching, lurking through pretty much every thread and all I see is someone calling for a certain class to get a nerf. Nerf this, nerf that, that's pretty much the name of the game when it comes to these forums.

 

The smash spec has been asked for a nerf pretty much since this game came out so there's no surprise there, right now the spec that's being asked to receive a hit fro the nerfbat is operative healing. I'm not against nerfing whatsoever; however, I've noticed a trend that more people are calling for nerfs to certain classes so they'll be on an even playing field with every other class. My question for everyone (and maybe this has something to do with the devs being lazy or the game engine or something I just don't understand about the game) is why not call for more buffs than nerfs? I'm certain that it'd be a lot better to buff sage and mando healing than to just nerf op healing into the ground so no one will want to play that class either. Just a suggestion.

[Mikeieveli]

easier for devs to balance one class around multiple classes than the inverse, which is balancing multiple classes around one.

 

If its easier for devs the more likely it will get done.

 

For instance the PvP community was demanding that no work be done and no attention be paid to PvP for a year and half. Done.

 

The community was clammoring for the removal of ranked 8v8 prior to release of 2.4 patch notes. Done.

 

The community has wanted no class balance done since 1.2. Done.

 

The community demands more reskins in the cartel market every other week. Done.

 

The community demands that they are not listened to. Done.

 

See the trend, what is easiest will always be done.

[Morde_]

^ I chuckled.

 

Then cried.

[Zunayson]

easier for devs to balance one class around multiple classes than the inverse, which is balancing multiple classes around one.

 

If its easier for devs the more likely it will get done.

 

For instance the PvP community was demanding that no work be done and no attention be paid to PvP for a year and half. Done.

 

The community was clammoring for the removal of ranked 8v8 prior to release of 2.4 patch notes. Done.

 

The community has wanted no class balance done since 1.2. Done.

 

The community demands more reskins in the cartel market every other week. Done.

 

The community demands that they are not listened to. Done.

 

See the trend, what is easiest will always be done.

 

I'm tired and didn't realize what you were doing until the reskins.

[Shakhaar]

Because it is easier to tweak one class than focus on several classes. Let us presume that Operative healers really are an issue. Now how would you counter their overpowered status? By increasing damage output of other classes? That would result in Jedi Knights/Sith Warriors dominating Warzones, and then there would be the need for aditional tweaking - increasing the healing output of other classes would require a higher damage output and so on.

 

Plus, most of the time a spec being unviable doesnt necessarily mean that it is rubbish and needs to be completely changed. Simply playing around with the CDs and procs of certain skills/abilities can make a spec viable, and is easier done that re-doing the whole class system.

 

From an Operative healer perspective, I can say that the difference between a player that knows their class and a player that doesnt is extremely noticeable. A good smasher can cause massive amounts of damage, perhaps not enough to earn the kill, but enough to force the healer into healing themselves, and hence not healing their team. On the other hand, a not so skilled smasher can just be a mild nuisance, barely outdamaging Kolto Probe and the occasional Surgical Probe.

 

So, personally, I consider this more of a player learning issue than actual imbalance. The problem with these is, patching player learning issues with nerfs and buffs doesnt really benefit anyone - the complainer just finds out that they are getting outplayed by something else.

[IGotRawr]

Because it is easier to tweak one class than focus on several classes. Let us presume that Operative healers really are an issue. Now how would you counter their overpowered status? By increasing damage output of other classes? That would result in Jedi Knights/Sith Warriors dominating Warzones, and then there would be the need for aditional tweaking - increasing the healing output of other classes would require a higher damage output and so on.

 

Plus, most of the time a spec being unviable doesnt necessarily mean that it is rubbish and needs to be completely changed. Simply playing around with the CDs and procs of certain skills/abilities can make a spec viable, and is easier done that re-doing the whole class system.

 

From an Operative healer perspective, I can say that the difference between a player that knows their class and a player that doesnt is extremely noticeable. A good smasher can cause massive amounts of damage, perhaps not enough to earn the kill, but enough to force the healer into healing themselves, and hence not healing their team. On the other hand, a not so skilled smasher can just be a mild nuisance, barely outdamaging Kolto Probe and the occasional Surgical Probe.

 

So, personally, I consider this more of a player learning issue than actual imbalance. The problem with these is, patching player learning issues with nerfs and buffs doesnt really benefit anyone - the complainer just finds out that they are getting outplayed by something else.

 

To be honest if you plan on taking down a healer, smash is not the spec you want to be running in the first place. For guardian/juggernaut vigilance/vengeance would be best for that simply because it has better single target burst. Same goes for sentinel/marauder combat/carnage plus this spec also has tons of roots, good when trying to keep the healer from getting away from you.

 

Before 2.0 no one picked on operative/scoundrel healers calling them out as OP for ONE simple reason, the energy cost of Kolto Probe/Slow-Release Medpac it was 15 at all times back in the day and with 2.0 there was a talent introduced that reduced that energy cost to 9 making it spammable, allowing such healer to keep a Kolto Probe/Slow-Release Medpac on every member of his group without putting any strain on his energy pool.

 

And that's all that has changed, giving the healing class with arguably the best defensive cooldowns and best solo survivability the ability to HoT an entire 8 man group at absolutely no effort. So nerf that talent so each level of it reduces the energy cost by 1 rather than 2 and the ability will cost 12 energy rather than 9, making the healer unable to keep it on everyone without compromising his energy pool.

 

And that's the opinion of someone who rolled a scoundrel healer before it was mainstream

[OldSpiceSwag]

easier for devs to balance one class around multiple classes than the inverse, which is balancing multiple classes around one.

 

If its easier for devs the more likely it will get done.

 

For instance the PvP community was demanding that no work be done and no attention be paid to PvP for a year and half. Done.

 

The community was clammoring for the removal of ranked 8v8 prior to release of 2.4 patch notes. Done.

 

The community has wanted no class balance done since 1.2. Done.

 

The community demands more reskins in the cartel market every other week. Done.

 

The community demands that they are not listened to. Done.

 

See the trend, what is easiest will always be done.

 

post of the year right here

[Oddy_T]

Before 2.0 no one picked on operative/scoundrel healers calling them out as OP for ONE simple reason

 

And the reason is that everyone was busy complaining about bubblestun.

 

Hate to break it to you but operative/scoundrel has been OP compared to the other 2 healers (outside of bubblestun) since 1.2 and people were playing double operative/scoundrel because of it when ranked 1st started over a year ago.

[Kegparty]

proving that if they fix one class the community will find its next QQfest I would rather have people QQ about how their class needs some buffs for these simple reasons:

 

1 The player knows his class and is not bashing a class he never plays

2 It's constructive

3 The devs might actually listen *holds fingers*

 

Everyone of these OP threads should be deleted. If you class sucks it will still suck after said class gets nerfed. You will just move on to the next class that pisses you off.

[Shakhaar]

To be honest if you plan on taking down a healer, smash is not the spec you want to be running in the first place. For guardian/juggernaut vigilance/vengeance would be best for that simply because it has better single target burst. Same goes for sentinel/marauder combat/carnage plus this spec also has tons of roots, good when trying to keep the healer from getting away from you.

 

Before 2.0 no one picked on operative/scoundrel healers calling them out as OP for ONE simple reason, the energy cost of Kolto Probe/Slow-Release Medpac it was 15 at all times back in the day and with 2.0 there was a talent introduced that reduced that energy cost to 9 making it spammable, allowing such healer to keep a Kolto Probe/Slow-Release Medpac on every member of his group without putting any strain on his energy pool.

 

And that's all that has changed, giving the healing class with arguably the best defensive cooldowns and best solo survivability the ability to HoT an entire 8 man group at absolutely no effort. So nerf that talent so each level of it reduces the energy cost by 1 rather than 2 and the ability will cost 12 energy rather than 9, making the healer unable to keep it on everyone without compromising his energy pool.

 

And that's the opinion of someone who rolled a scoundrel healer before it was mainstream

 

While Carnage definitely has a higher single target damage output, it is considerably more CD dependant, and during the downtime, the JK/SW isn't much of a threat. But yea, you are right that it is more effective and killing single targets. On the other smashers are able to pressure larger groups of players at once, not only pressuring the healer, but also the players they are healing - diverting his attention and most likely resulting in someone dying.

 

DoT specs such as Lethality can alternate between two targets: in the heat of the fight the healer will most likely not be able to dispell, and if they focus him, and then swap targets as the healer outheals themselves, they should be able to earn the kill on whoever the healer was healing.

 

I wouldn't really mind if the spec recieved nerfs though, and your suggestion seems reasonable.

[sithBracer]

While Carnage definitely has a higher single target damage output, it is considerably more CD dependant, and during the downtime, the JK/SW isn't much of a threat. But yea, you are right that it is more effective and killing single targets. On the other smashers are able to pressure larger groups of players at once, not only pressuring the healer, but also the players they are healing - diverting his attention and most likely resulting in someone dying.

 

DoT specs such as Lethality can alternate between two targets: in the heat of the fight the healer will most likely not be able to dispell, and if they focus him, and then swap targets as the healer outheals themselves, they should be able to earn the kill on whoever the healer was healing.

 

I wouldn't really mind if the spec recieved nerfs though, and your suggestion seems reasonable.

 

His suggestion would change absolutely nothing. People will still QQ because decent players can easily manage energy.

 

Hell I didn't turn on part of that skill in the skill tree (durable meds) just to test it out and I was able to manage my energy just fine (it was a little tougher I admit). And I don't consider myself gods gift to PvP, far from it. A much more skilled player than me would have a very easy time managing energy and people will still QQ.

 

The reason they QQ is because they figured out once they have their smash spec nerfed that they are not the PvP gods they thought they were; because their leap + smash isn't as lethal as it used to be, they cry about a healers method of escaping ... you know instead of learning a better strategy than JUGG SMASH.

 

Although I think some nerfs could be applied to the op (a little more energy cost to kolto probe, a small CD on roll) it will make almost no difference. As I said I managed energy perfectly fine when not at full durable meds, and against a dumb smasher I never use more than one roll, against a decent team, it will not matter how many rolls I use if I'm not guarded and my team doesn't help, they finish me off (unless I vanish).

Edited August 23, 2013 by sithBracer