fallen_phoenix Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) I realize that a lot of viewers of this section of the forums are serious PvP players, and you may not run with "PUGs" all that often, however I want to reach all PvP'ers here with a simple message: Let's build each other up instead of tearing each other down. Here's the deal: when you lose a match, or are losing, it's really, really easy to blame other people. And hell, you may be RIGHT - maybe they ARE bad. But regardless, you can't win by just telling people they're BAD and they should GT\FO. The only way to win, especially with an expanding playerbase (think "F2P"), is to *educate* instead of berate. Here's an exchange that happened just a little while ago over on Harbinger/Empire: http://imgur.com/ZLHJkmR I blurred the names of the two people making these comments because I'm not out to get them - I'm out to shatter this misplaced *mindset*. If somebody's bad at, say, Huttball, what's more useful: yelling at them so they (and lots of others) don't queue up, or EDUCATING them, so they do better the next time they queue up, and every time thereafter? We all had to start somewhere. Let's make a decision as a community to stop berating people for being "bads" and instead do the RIGHT thing - and you know it's the right thing, don't even play like you don't - and start LIFTING EACH OTHER UP. It's always easy to gripe, moan, complain and blame. It takes real intelligence and character to teach others. I challenge the PvP community to prove they're good enough to be inclusive and helpful instead of childish and spiteful. Are you up to the task? Edited August 16, 2013 by fallen_phoenix gosh darn enter key!
MrGoldsilver Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) The only problem is that they don't always listen... Every match at the start I type a few sentences about what to do, but people don't always listen to it. For example, in hutball i say "watch for passes, don't Mez the ball carrier, knock them off the ramps... Ect..." But I still see people running everywhere while a pub premade rushes through and scores in 30 seconds... (I play imp harbinger also, pubs are strong right now, though today I was winning a lot) A good idea in concept though. Edited August 16, 2013 by MrGoldsilver Forgot a few things
af_raptura Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) A sensible, well-articulated thread with a positive message of helping out less experienced players and improving pvp as a whole. I applaud you, sir (or ma'am). This community will never go for it, though. Edited August 17, 2013 by af_raptura
MsMalice Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Because it's quicker to type "fking nubs gt fo" than it is to type out lessons in ops chat. At least that way they know they're bad? And will hopefully do something about it?
MidichIorian Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 The problem with the friendly tone is that chat is text based and conveying a friendly message or educating is waaay too time consuming when you're in the midst of battle. People talk crap in voice based in-game chats too but IMO not to the same extent, in swtor (and similar games) it's making up for 95 % of the messages between pugs. If people had been able to quickly call out INC etc we wouldnt have had all these hostile messages during and after the game. Another problem with text chat is how it's interpreted. I have, on several occassions, typed out short, informative and IMO foremost neutral messages and been yelled at because they werent friendly enough. Someone yelled that I wasnt the leader when I chatted "two of you need to move to X" etc. It doesnt really help that an MMO has some of the most socially handicapped players in the gaming community. Had there been voice chat I probably would have said "hey, we have people incoming so if two of you could come help me out at X.." in a, if not friendly, atleast neutral tone people would have understood that I was indeed not trying to boss people around.
Shakhaar Posted August 17, 2013 Posted August 17, 2013 The only point in hating on your team if you lose is to vent, which is also, quite pointless. For someone to win someone has to lose, you win some, you lose some. If losing makes you upset, maybe you should try doing quests or something where everyone is a winner. Since the PvP community on most servers is small enough to get to remember some of the PUGs that speak in the Ops groups, people who whine, throw insults and blame everything on everyone else tend to have a bad reputation, and less support from their healers/tanks. If you think someone is bad, then: 1) Whisper them so as to avoid shaming them, and yourself in front of the team explaining what you think they are doing wrong. 2) If it isn't worth it to you, then don't bother doing anything at all. Admittedly this is mostly my approach. I understand that people get upset when someone is leeching or slacking (not like vote kick ever worked), but flame wars in chat just make people look nerdy and ragey, and that isn't a good image.
tidusamy Posted August 17, 2013 Posted August 17, 2013 OP, how long have you played Imp side on the Harbinger? it's enough to drive one to say and do things you wouldn't think were possible. I play on four servers, including POT5, and no server is as dominated by one side as the Pubs dominate on the Harbinger. The only way to win is by forming double premades, which is what people are increasingly doing. I compliment you, however, for your approach and for blurring out the names of the people. Classy. The sad thing is, I've tried and tried and tried to offer advice to Imps on the Harbinger. Most people just tell me to you know what. It's nearly hopeless over there. Close to just transferring all my Harbinger toons off the server.
MrGoldsilver Posted August 17, 2013 Posted August 17, 2013 OP, how long have you played Imp side on the Harbinger? it's enough to drive one to say and do things you wouldn't think were possible. I play on four servers, including POT5, and no server is as dominated by one side as the Pubs dominate on the Harbinger. The only way to win is by forming double premades, which is what people are increasingly doing. I compliment you, however, for your approach and for blurring out the names of the people. Classy. The sad thing is, I've tried and tried and tried to offer advice to Imps on the Harbinger. Most people just tell me to you know what. It's nearly hopeless over there. Close to just transferring all my Harbinger toons off the server. Well today I was winning more than usual... Even non-war games
DarthMaulUK Posted August 17, 2013 Posted August 17, 2013 A bad will always remain a bad. The only way a bad can be educated is to do it themselves. There's more than enough guides, videos and walkthroughs for a bad to master their class, learn how pvp works and then use google to look up the word 'Objective'. And by Level 55, there is simply no excuse not to have at least the basic concept of pvp.
BacaWicket Posted August 18, 2013 Posted August 18, 2013 yeah i dont usually yell at my teamates for being complete noobs instead i mock the pubs for being total 3 cappers and for not being satisfied with 2
JackNader Posted August 18, 2013 Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) You cannot educate bad players. They are bad because they lack that basic drive to get better that all good players have. The harbinger is typically filled with absolutely rubbish players, especially on the imperial side. It's been that way since server transfers. I have seen only a handful of good imperials coming through the lower brackets. After 10 - 15 warzones filled with guys who really should stick to PvE, it's not hard to understand why some people start raging. Edited August 18, 2013 by JackNader
AlrikFassbauer Posted August 18, 2013 Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) You cannot educate bad players. They are bad because they lack that basic drive to get better that all good players have. The harbinger is typically filled with absolutely rubbish players, especially on the imperial side. It's been that way since server transfers. I have seen only a handful of good imperials coming through the lower brackets. After 10 - 15 warzones filled with guys who really should stick to PvE, it's not hard to understand why some people start raging. This is the exact mind set the original poster tried/wanted to post against. Thank you for so much proving his point of view. Edited August 18, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer
JackNader Posted August 18, 2013 Posted August 18, 2013 This is the exact mind set the original poster tried/wanted to post against. Thank you for so much proving his point of view. Dude, I've played competitive gaming for over 15 years. A good chunk of that was in my FPS days for money. The OP is wrong about educating people. You can't think for people. They either have that skill or they do not.
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