PVE Scrapper: How is it parsing/preforming in ops?

[crazylegoman]

Now, I like to check the dps leaderboard, just to see how the top players of each class are parsing, to get a general idea of how members of my ops group might be doing. So, I look at scoundrel dps: Dirty Fighting/Lethality repeating ad nauseum.

 

Now, I have a scoundrel in my guild who only plays scrapper. That's fine; I only play dps with my scoundrel as well. The problem is that I'm a bit concerned about bringing him to ops as that character, because I don't know if having him as dps will hinder the rest of the team.

 

So, my question is: How would high gear level scrappers parse, or how do scrappers preform in HM/NiM Ops?

[jack__]

AFAIK scrappers do perform *alright*, but the they are very limited by positional requirements (back blast) and some very bad energy management issues (this can be overcome if they are really good at the spec and have a tight rotation). In addition, DF can apply their dots at 30m as well as Wounding shots (still bound by UH though but you can pop pugnacity) and Hemorrhaging Blast at 10 metres, so for bosses with alot of movement (Asation Kephess, Op 9 ect.), your dps is slightly higher if you have to approach an enemy at range. This combined with the superior damage of DF means that there is no real point for going with scrapper. Edited August 18, 2013 by jack__

[oaceen]

AFAIK scrappers do perform *alright*, but the they are very limited by positional requirements (back blast) and some very bad energy management issues (this can be overcome if they are really good at the spec and have a tight rotation). In addition, DF can apply their dots at 30m as well as Wounding shots (still bound by UH though but you can pop pugnacity) and Hemorrhaging Blast at 10 metres, so for bosses with alot of movement (Asation Kephess, Op 9 ect.), your dps is slightly higher if you have to approach an enemy at range.

 

wounding shots is 10m as well, but that's a mostly accurate assessment.

 

basically, scrappers can do well. there are even some fights where they will excel compared to dirty fighting.

but as jack said, it probably takes a lot more experience to do well compared to other specs / classes, but they are by no means a liability. i would go so far as to say no spec or class is a liability currently (if played well).

 

i haven't taken my scrapper into nightmare yet, but he did HM woefully undergeared and did just fine.

[crazylegoman]

Now I know DF is superior, and you know it's superior, and I'm pretty sure he knows it's superior as well, but he's never going to change specs on that character, and he plays it very well. (In fact, he is more likely to pull aggro on that character than any other dps in our guild.) But anyway, thanks for the answers.

[oaceen]

Now I know DF is superior, and you know it's superior, and I'm pretty sure he knows it's superior as well, but he's never going to change specs on that character, and he plays it very well. (In fact, he is more likely to pull aggro on that character than any other dps in our guild.) But anyway, thanks for the answers.

 

but there's no meter for effective dps, so in the end, all that really matters is that the boss is dead, not your overall dps at the end of the fight (imo)

 

some classes fit into different roles when it comes to mechanics. for example, high sustained dps specs like dirty fighting should stay on the boss when burst specs like scrapper go clean up adds.

 

it's very easy for dirty fighting to put up big numbers by the end of the fight, but scrappers really shine during burst phases, where low burst dps can really hurt sometimes (e.g. styrak). that burst-phase damage doesn't always equate to a higher overall dps at the end of the fight, but it's still important.

 

basically dirty fighting should put up bigger numbers over the course of a fight, but scrapper should have really high spikes in damage where it's needed.

 

that said, there seems to be a bit of a disparity, in that dirty fighting does a LOT more sustained dps in correlation to its lower burst damage (probably the most out of any class / spec right now), but this does not mean scrapper isn't viable or useful or even that it is wholly inferior to dirty fighting in every boss fight.

Edited August 18, 2013 by oaceen

[Gren-Aluren]

Scrapper should be fine on anything but NiM given that his skill level is high with that spec. I could see it being a hinderance on certain boss fights in NiM. It's not like he can't respec to DF for fights with a really tight enrage timer. Edited August 18, 2013 by Gren-Aluren

[Pizza_boy]

PVE= Dirty Fighting u would do crap as scrapper in pve

[Elyx]

I think the real question OP is,

 

How is your guild doing in the Ops runs with him in it? are you killing the boss, are things running smooth? are you meeting the enrage timers, etc.

 

If things are going OK, then why worry? if you are constantly running into problems and are looking for places to streamline the group so you can actually beat the bosses, then it may be a concern. but if your doing fine...well, ultimately it's up to you. I'd rather bring a well played scrapper over a horribad commando or sent any day of the week.

 

EDIT: I would go further to add that if your running progression, and your hitting a wall, I would require everyone to run parses first before I would drop someone because of a perceived class disparity. a single DPS performing at only 70% of their potential can cause issues...but if you make choices based on perceived class disparities, that person will never know that he is doing poorly, and very possible will not improve their ability. Iwould do parses first...and if everyone is doing reasonable well (within an acceptable range of what the class can do), and your still at that wall, then yeah..at that point id look at class disparities.

 

But far too often I see people drop a buddy or player because of what someone wrote on a forum, rather then look at the real data. It's like the old saying, "measure twice...cut once." but with this its, "parse twice, judge once".Not saying your were doing this OP, I think at this point in speaking to the general issue. the advice applies though

Edited August 24, 2013 by Elyx

[CJNJ]

Been wondering this as well, generally DF is better but both are viable, I get that. What would a ballpark dps difference be for the 2 specs?

[MiralukaJedi]

Been wondering this as well, generally DF is better but both are viable, I get that. What would a ballpark dps difference be for the 2 specs?

 

Depends on the fight. In a fight ideal for both it'd be about 100-200 difference. Lethality has slightly more AoE power so it can do better in fights with adds. Fights with high movement tend to favor lethality due to cull being 10m so as long as they can get in range to shiv everything else in their rotation is safe (IE: 4m every 6 seconds, rest of time can be in 10m though not preferred). Finally, bosses that make it difficult/impossible to backstab LARGELY favor Lethality.

 

IE: EV's Infernal Council (But big deal its EV)

 

Basically if the fight is a fight where positioning isn't too bad and movement is limited Concealment will be about 100-200 DPS difference. But the issue is that so many fights currently reward AoE power and movement.