Put role check in normal wz queue

[Godlymuppet]

Since you can't respec, once queued for a wz. Why would you not add roll check to normal wz. You can already see someone's roll. You don't need to match to a certain composition, you can just make sure the rolls are matched to the opposition.

 

What possible reason is there not to do it. The queues would be what maybe 30 secs longer.

 

The number of rep v rep games I have played with 3 heals on one side but 1 on the other is crazy. This would stop that happening.

 

Don't be waiting for feedback from the ptr, no one that's going there will be testing normals.

[Altheran]

Let's say that at time Republic has 3 tanks 5 DPS and 1 healer queuing and Empire has 3 Tanks 6 DPS and 1 Healer.

What will be the composition ?

• 3 Tanks + 5 DPS
  
• 3 Tanks + 4 DPS + 1 Healer
  
• 2 Tanks + 5 DPS + 1 Healer

 

And more, how the game will decide which composition will be able to play ? Informatics tend to not like to be in a "x or y" solution. Add to that in a live environnement, the number of possibilities will be much higher.

 

My guess is that if you don't add a requirement for a certain composition, or priority list if you prefer, the system will not be able to make a "decision" and will crash/stagger. So I think that's all or nothing in this case : either work like group finder and make a standard composition, or completely random like now (first to have come, first served).

[Ghost_Spectre]

What possible reason is there not to do it. The queues would be what maybe 30 secs longer.

 

Maybe they are using the same role checking system developed for Flash Points and it is only capable of handling 4. Perhaps it's not capable of handling more than that and they cannot modify it or develop something new to incorporate this system to work in normal warzones. <shrugs>

[Yestreen]

Since you can't respec, once queued for a wz. Why would you not add roll check to normal wz. You can already see someone's roll. You don't need to match to a certain composition, you can just make sure the rolls are matched to the opposition.

 

What possible reason is there not to do it. The queues would be what maybe 30 secs longer.

 

The number of rep v rep games I have played with 3 heals on one side but 1 on the other is crazy. This would stop that happening.

 

Don't be waiting for feedback from the ptr, no one that's going there will be testing normals.

 

 

This would make queue times too long

[Jorojus]

The main problem for role checks is population or otherwise "supply and demand", at moments you only have 16 players on a server that want to pvp it doesn't matter if there is a system or not.

 

And at peak times the system will create higher waiting times for certain roles wich I actually dont mind about but clearly the developers do.

 

I can't imagine after all this time it is that hard to implement a system for PVP like they have a groupfinder for PVE (4 man for FP , 8 man for OPS).

 

IF they could / wanted to do it they would have done it.

 

Clearly they fail to create a system that picks players firstly on role and secondly on rating wich would help alot in balancing out normal warzones. Ofcourse then they would have had to implement a rating for normal warzones in the first place.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Jorojus

[BigDumbViking]

This would make queue times too long

 

Truth.

 

Although certain maps are more conducive to certain group compositions... For instance.. .Huttball doesn't actually require ANY dps... I was in a match last night against a team with 6 healers and an arsanal Merc, but he still had >120k healing done... There was no way to stop them... they scored so fast it wasn't even funny, between the 3 force speeds and 2 Op rolls they would pass the ball once and be across the end line before anyone could figure out where the ball was... and good luck killing anything... holy crap.

 

It would be nice to at least cap healer and tank specs in a WZ to 3 each. or 4 total between the 2.. i don't think that would mess up the queue's too bad and would fix some of the major composition issues that happen when you get 4-5 healers in a CivWar and no one on either team ever dies and the match becomes a nasty stalemate.

[Godlymuppet]

Imagine at the start if you could see the roll, just like in flashpoints. Healers would get guards straight away. People would know that scoundrel is a healer, so is not going to go node guarding, encouraging someone else to do it. If you see health going down on one of your team, you can see if its one of your healers about to be taken out, at a glance.

 

The benefits would be many. Enough to balance out any increase in queue length.

[cycao]

Imagine at the start if you could see the roll, just like in flashpoints. Healers would get guards straight away. People would know that scoundrel is a healer, so is not going to go node guarding, encouraging someone else to do it. If you see health going down on one of your team, you can see if its one of your healers about to be taken out, at a glance.

 

The benefits would be many. Enough to balance out any increase in queue length.

 

Most healers will use some healing ability to make it known that they are healing, or just inspect the sorcs and ops their gear will give it away most of the time.

 

A role check is a perfect idea for ranked solo queue arenas but is not needed for regs.

[Godlymuppet]

Most healers will use some healing ability to make it known that they are healing, or just inspect the sorcs and ops their gear will give it away most of the time.

 

A role check is a perfect idea for ranked solo queue arenas but is not needed for regs.

 

Removed as not to derail my own thread.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Godlymuppet

[Tankqull]

Poor commando healers. You didn't even mention them. Lets hope they get some live on the pts.

 

because they have a healing stance, dont they?

[cycao]

Poor commando healers. You didn't even mention them. Lets hope they get some live on the pts.

 

You would have to be brain dead to not notice what cell they are using...that's their giveaway.

[Godlymuppet]

Getting back on topic. It's not about how you notice a roll. It's about having that roll there in the first place.

 

Would you rather have a queue pop in thirty seconds as seven Dps and one tank, or would you rather it pop in two minutes but have five Dps one tank and two heals. Just what level of queue increase would be worth it for a more balanced team?

Edited August 16, 2013 by Godlymuppet

[Godlymuppet]

Bump for the Yanks.

[Technohic]

For the "Yanks?"

 

I hope you are not meaning the northerners, who were largely east coast to begin with.

[sithBracer]

Although I completely agree with the idea, the lack of tanks will be more than enough to make queue times longer (esp in pvp where juggs are still speccing in rage). Although I would love to play with a tank who actually guards me from smash monkeys.

[Godlymuppet]

For the "Yanks?"

 

I hope you are not meaning the northerners, who were largely east coast to begin with.

 

It just means Americans. Have you seriously not heard the phrase before?

 

Also if no tanks, they can still match, just with no tanks either side.

[unixbomber]

Although I completely agree with the idea, the lack of tanks will be more than enough to make queue times longer (esp in pvp where juggs are still speccing in rage). Although I would love to play with a tank who actually guards me from smash monkeys.

 

The truth is that a lot of players I see in regular warzones simply don't understand how to or perhaps want to play their role to help their team... if I had credits for every time I saw a juggernaut in a tanking stance with zero protection at the end of a warzone I'd be rich. Having a guaranteed number of healers in a game and a limit of heal spec'd players would be beneficial to games though.

 

I know when I've solo queued on my healers I've ended up on teams, multiple times, where 5 of us were fully heal spec'd... I queue as dps and routinely never have even one person traited to heal. It's frustrating to say the least, especially when the other team has three healers. When I've queued as a deception assassin I've ended up on teams with 5 other deception assassins in a voidstar.. needless to say the other team got worked pretty hard.

 

It's just small things they can do to make games interesting and enjoyable for both sides as no one likes getting rolled and people genuinely like to feel like they should have a chance at a similar odds.

[Shakhaar]

This has been implemented in another MMO, with pretty much the same arguments, and turned out to be a complete failure. Though said MMO has cross-server queues, so the damage done was not as large as it would have been in SWToR.

 

I know people like to think that "we lost cause they had too much of spec X", and that limiting or balancing out spec distribution in extension makes their Warzones more fair, but in practice it fails at making Warzones more fair and only brings about longer queues.

 

Why? Because equal amounts of spec X are no guarantee of fairness. For all you know, you could have three Merc healers who haven't keybound half of their abilities, are undergeared and heal by clicking avatars or something...while the enemy team gets three Operative healers who know their stuff. Your team would still be disadvantaged, and perhaps you would be better off with DPS instead of those healers you got.

 

And there is nothing preventing people from entering a spec that their AC class has acess to, but that they aren't really playing. Such as Concealment Operatives entering as healers. I'm sure everyone had the odd occasion when this happened to them in the FP-finder. Sin tanks who actually happen to be DPSers and what not.

 

And how will you balance the specs out? By deciding optimal distributions? Like 2 tanks, 3 healers for Huttball and 4 tanks, 1 healer for Voidstar? That would turn the queues into something like the PvE ones - personally I'd rather cherish a victory despite being disadvantaged, than wait an hour for my "fair" game.

 

It's not really a matter of 30 seconds - currently the queue finder allocates anyone who signs up. Now imagine some brackets have say 36 people active at given time - 2 x 9 pubs and 2 x 9 imps to make it easy. If there are 5 healers on one side and 2 on the other, with say 2 healers per WZ, with 4 matches going on, assuming they all start at the same time (and they won't, so theres even more waiting time), 3 healers would have to sit out the WZ because the enemy doesn't have as much healers.

 

Which is about 8 minutes of waiting for people with the "wrong" spec. So instead of one queue where everyone stands, now you have several queues, some considerably longer and some considerably shorter.