chuixupu Posted August 15, 2013 Posted August 15, 2013 http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups Sad state of a affairs, I say. It's hard for me to understand why anyone would think sending a death threat over a game would seem like a good idea in someone's mind, let alone actually make a positive impact in their favor.
JustARandomGuy Posted August 15, 2013 Posted August 15, 2013 A very interesting read, thanks for posting the link. It is a shame how the gaming community has evolved (or maybe devolved is a better word) in the 20 odd years I’ve been playing computer game. Making death threats or saying you are going to kill a Dev’s children because you didn’t like the ending of a game is not acceptable in any way, shape or form. Until the internet is no longer anonymous, this will still continue, as far as I can tell. While the internet is (generally) a force of good, it does tend to over emphasis the vocal minority’s view point to the point where the ‘mass hysteria’ takes over. A prime example (for me) is the ending to ME3. Man, the howls over that ending and how ‘BioWare have betrayed me’ was shouted all over the internet really opened my eyes to how powerful a small group of ‘Dedicated’ gamers really are. Another prime example (and one used to ‘prove’ how ‘bad’ EA is) is the ‘worse company in America’ thing that’s been going on for the last two years. In a world where bank re-possessions are at an all-time high, companies pumping Oil into area’s that they shouldn’t, large companies laying off people left and right and a slew of other worthy contenders to the title, and a gaming company is the worse company in America? Please. Get your priorities straight. Anyway, getting late for me, so I’ll leave it at this, but I’d be interested in what the rest of our community thinks about this. It could be a good opportunity for us as a community to get together and try to remember that we know how important everyone who works for BioWare/EA is in the grand scheme of things. Sure, the Customer Support agents get a hard time, but if they wernt' there, then that character that you deleted isn't going to come back. Without the Dev's we dont get any updates for the game. Even the PR and Marketing staff have a role to play for swtor. I’ve found over the years that people tend to get worked up about things that they care for, and if you’re a ‘Fanboi’ or a ‘Hater’ we all pay our subscription to the game. And if you paying for something, then you care about it on some level.
Beranzen Posted August 15, 2013 Posted August 15, 2013 Seen way to many of those types of threats. The idiots that do it have zero justification for it, and should all be punished to the fullest extent of the law. They insult not only the gaming community, but humanity in general for unleashing that kind of venom of something so trivial as a game.
TheBBP Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Another prime example (and one used to ‘prove’ how ‘bad’ EA is) is the ‘worse company in America’ thing that’s been going on for the last two years. In a world where bank re-possessions are at an all-time high, companies pumping Oil into area’s that they shouldn’t, large companies laying off people left and right and a slew of other worthy contenders to the title, and a gaming company is the worse company in America? Please. Get your priorities straight. This is the brightest example. The vocal internet crowd is a mass of self-absorbed, self-entitled, whiny blow-hards who suffer from a severe detachment from reality. It is quite pathetic to put a video game company against other companies that are neck-deep into the problems that you have stated and to have these self-absorbed types vote the video game company as the worst. It just goes to show how selfish and clueless the vocal minority can be.
Callaron Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Doesn't surprise me, seeing how actors always had to deal with stalkers and maniacs that threaten to kill them over the actions of their characters. The world is a scary place sometimes.
Kaisernick Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 these people need to be delt with, i always feel that fellow gamers who share in the disgust of thing like this should stand against them. more often than not however its the same group across multiple venues and more often than not they are young children who push comes to shove would probably wet themselves when there actions catch up to them. but in the end all gamers need to remember yes u may not like something, yes can express your opinion and what you think could be done differently but YOU CAN NOT FORCE YOUR VIEWS AS IF THEY ARE THE ENTIRE GAMING COMMUNITY.
AlrikFassbauer Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) The comments under the article are very interesting, too. Worst are those commenting in the same way of thought like the thought-model the article describes. I found the late comment of someone believing that "pople are just getting numb" most interesting - it might shed some light on what's going on *inside* of "those people". It's as if people had several/multiple personalities - one among them that is simply "online". This is the brightest example. The vocal internet crowd is a mass of self-absorbed, self-entitled, whiny blow-hards who suffer from a severe detachment from reality. It always surprised me how much the votes would go not against a company which literally made people lose their homes & houses - but against a company that deals with bits & bytes. It's as if bity & bytes were far more important than the house or the flat you are living in. Edited August 16, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer
MaximusRex Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Another prime example (and one used to ‘prove’ how ‘bad’ EA is) is the ‘worse company in America’ thing that’s been going on for the last two years. In a world where bank re-possessions are at an all-time high, companies pumping Oil into area’s that they shouldn’t, large companies laying off people left and right and a slew of other worthy contenders to the title, and a gaming company is the worse company in America? Please. Get your priorities straight. I don't buy this part. Those other terrible companies are making record profits, and have been terrible for decades, some list isn't going to make them change their ways. EA hasn't been doing as well financially, and this is a way, though perhaps hyperbolic, to let them know that their customer base isn't happy with the quality of products and services being offered. EA is much more likely to make some changes because of this type of notoriety. They have already shown in their attempts to brush it off that its gotten on their skin a bit.
TheBBP Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 I don't buy this part. Those other terrible companies are making record profits, and have been terrible for decades, some list isn't going to make them change their ways. EA hasn't been doing as well financially, and this is a way, though perhaps hyperbolic, to let them know that their customer base isn't happy with the quality of products and services being offered. EA is much more likely to make some changes because of this type of notoriety. They have already shown in their attempts to brush it off that its gotten on their skin a bit. No matter how you skin it, the fact that EA can win that poll over institutions that quite literally have destroyed real lives is a testament to the extremely selfish, unhinged and irrationally detached state of the vocal gaming community.
JustARandomGuy Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 I don't buy this part. Those other terrible companies are making record profits, and have been terrible for decades, some list isn't going to make them change their ways. EA hasn't been doing as well financially, and this is a way, though perhaps hyperbolic, to let them know that their customer base isn't happy with the quality of products and services being offered. EA is much more likely to make some changes because of this type of notoriety. They have already shown in their attempts to brush it off that its gotten on their skin a bit. I don't want to change the direction of the thread with this, as it's another matter entirely, but I do agree with TheBBP's comments above. Spin it as much as you want, it just shows that 'Gamers' (as a whole) really don't understand how unimportant gaming is in the grand scheme of things. There is NO justification for making threats of violence against anyone just because a game didn't meet your expectations. To get back to the topic at hand, I've been thinking about this a bit today, and I think one of the reasons why this is happening is due to the ease in which people can comment on games. Before the advent of the internet, you had what, snail mail and maybe a computer magazine where you could express your frustrations with a game? With the rise of social media (with all that entails) it's easier and easier to express your displeasure with, well, anything. That flim you didn't like? Quick! let the world know through Twitter! That waiter in the fancy restaurant didn't server the correct wine with the main course? It's a travesty! quick, to facebook! In some ways, I think that the balance of power between gaming companies and players is shifted too far towards player control. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for player imput, but not to the extent where the vocal minority can change the game FOR EVERYONE just because they don't like one feature. Just take a look at any of the threads in these forums where a Dev posts. You can say for sure 100% that someone will come along and derail the thread with their own personal bugbear. While we all want more communictaion with the people who make the game, we also have to understand that this is a two way street. And if you want someone like a Dev to answer your questions, then present them in a calm, rational manner, and you'd be surprised at how much more likely you are to get an answer.
branmakmuffin Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Spin it as much as you want, it just shows that 'Gamers' (as a whole) really don't understand how unimportant gaming is in the grand scheme of things. There is NO justification for making threats of violence against anyone just because a game didn't meet your expectations. Many people fail to recognize that their trivial activities are, in fact, trivial. It's not a gamer thing, it's a people thing. People, as a group, love to embellish themselves and their activities with over-blown importance.
JustARandomGuy Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Many people fail to recognize that their trivial activities are, in fact, trivial. It's not a gamer thing, it's a people thing. People, as a group, love to embellish themselves and their activities with over-blown importance. That's a good point brnamakmufin, thanks for bringing that up. I guess it's always easy to become wrapped up with our own trivialities to an extent that we fail to see other view points. I'm sure I don't need to point out how ofter this happens in our forums I'm not sure how we as a group can combat this. Or even if it can be combatted. I tend to post fairly often in the Customer Service forum as well as the occasional forray into General and Off-topic and I guess I'm old school in that I treat other posters (and players) as I'd like to be treated. It's a fairly simple philosophy (sp?) to live by, but it works for me.
Kaisernick Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) I'm not sure how we as a group can combat this. Or even if it can be combatted. me. simple the most obvious thing is to report any types of threats on forums, online harassment is also illegal in many places so if u know someone who does report them to the police if your a parent and you find your child is doing slimier things take their pc or anything that can connect to the net away, and those who come near to either harassment or childish taunts (but dont go over the bounds) stand up to them or ignore them they will soon learn that the internet isn't a place for bullying. Edited August 16, 2013 by Kaisernick
DorkTrooper Posted August 17, 2013 Posted August 17, 2013 Until the internet is no longer anonymous The news lately would seem to indicate that the internet is, in fact, not so anonymous. BTW, you're screenname isn't fooling anyone. OT: It seems to me that bad, mean, rude, and sociopathic behavior is getting more prevalent everywhere, not just online. Just a non-scientific observation.
Darka Posted August 17, 2013 Posted August 17, 2013 Gamers tend to feel their opinions matter more and even though they play the game, and didnt create it. It is still their game to many. Given that this behaviour has been tolerated for years, many people see it as common practice when something you dont agree with happens
Tatile Posted August 17, 2013 Posted August 17, 2013 Gamers tend to feel their opinions matter more and even though they play the game, and didnt create it. It is still their game to many. Given that this behaviour has been tolerated for years, many people see it as common practice when something you dont agree with happens It doesn't help that the general response to people talking about the harassment they've received is "just ignore them, they'll go away", "welcome to the internet" or "you must have done something". The aggressor might tire of you, but that just means they'll move onto someone else. Pretending that death and rape threats are normal and acceptable behaviour simply means that death and rape threats will continue and quite possibly not always be only words. And saying that someone deserves to be threatened simply because they exist? I cannot even with that. Also, the apparent laissez faire attitude taken by many companies towards harassment and reports thereof only makes matters worse as, in not saying anything, they are tacitly stating they agree with such behaviour.
BacaWicket Posted August 18, 2013 Posted August 18, 2013 probably the worst threats are the ones that say "im gonna kill your children on their way from school"
Mirab Posted August 18, 2013 Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) ... I do not think that end justifies means in this case or in any other case. Never has, never will. It's a game and games are not larger than life like you seem to imply. And frankly I feel a bit sick, thinking that threats like the ones Helper has received might actually be justified in someone's opinion, in this case your's. It is a GAME. The bit about newcomers in gamingworld caught my eye too: A hobby that does not support nor welcome newcomers... It is so true, specially in games that have been around a bit longer. I think Eve has got it correctly: they have a "guild" (sorry, can't remeber the right term) for newcomers where they are taught the ropes of the game. I belive that this idea should be adapted by other games too. After all Eve is a single server game, so this can't be adapted exactly as it is to other games, but I'm sure dev's will come up with a solution to this. For sure the solution isn't what the big one out there did: turning guilds to cashcows and perk generators with no real meaning to players other than that. Road to hotspot was paved with good intentions once again. All in all, article was a very good read, thanks for sharing it. br, Mirab Edited August 19, 2013 by CommunityDroidEU reply
Tatile Posted August 18, 2013 Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) ... Excuse you? "I don't like how this person writes, so I'm going to threaten to kill their children"? Are you really saying that's ok? Edited August 19, 2013 by CommunityDroidEU reply
oaceen Posted August 18, 2013 Posted August 18, 2013 this almost makes me want to write to them saying sorry on behalf of the gaming community.
DarkDisturbed Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 Excuse you? "I don't like how this person writes, so I'm going to threaten to kill their children"? Are you really saying that's ok? Meh, I don't really give a rat's *** frankly, it happens and nothing is going to stop it. My problem with this is how people seem to think it is exclusive to gamers or the internet. lolno. Any entertainment job working with any kind of beloved franchise or authorial position working with the public receives death threads all the time. I used to get people threatening to murder me for sticking $10 tickets on their cars when I worked for the campus police. Writers have gotten death threat letters for longer than the internet or video games have been around. It isn't just "gamer culture" or "internet culture" or "entitlement generation", It's just people.
oaceen Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 Meh, I don't really give a rat's *** frankly, it happens and nothing is going to stop it. My problem with this is how people seem to think it is exclusive to gamers or the internet. lolno. Any entertainment job working with any kind of beloved franchise or authorial position working with the public receives death threads all the time. I used to get people threatening to murder me for sticking $10 tickets on their cars when I worked for the campus police. Writers have gotten death threat letters for longer than the internet or video games have been around. It isn't just "gamer culture" or "internet culture" or "entitlement generation", It's just people. i don't think anyone is saying that this is exclusive. they're saying it's happening and that it's having an effect on the industry. it seems to be that your stance is, because lots of people act this way, it's ok. is that what you're saying? do you really think it was ok for people to threaten you for doing your job?
smartalectwo Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 The Roman Republic had a notoriously fickle and mob-prone democracy. To get around that, they had the simple law that chanting abuse of a public figure in public, or threatening someone with death, was itself considered assault and was punishable by death or exile. Food for thought. It would be nice to think that we wouldn't need any kind of zero-tolerance policy over two thousand years later, but even if the Roman punishment was crazy-extreme, maybe their interpretation of the crime itself wasn't so crazy.
CrazyMcGee Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 The Roman Republic had a notoriously fickle and mob-prone democracy. To get around that, they had the simple law that chanting abuse of a public figure in public, or threatening someone with death, was itself considered assault and was punishable by death or exile. Food for thought. It would be nice to think that we wouldn't need any kind of zero-tolerance policy over two thousand years later, but even if the Roman punishment was crazy-extreme, maybe their interpretation of the crime itself wasn't so crazy. Well sending death threats is a crime in most countries. You're not likely to get the death penalty, but if you harass or intimidate someone, you can be punished. It's just that it needs to be quite serious for it to be worth investigating or prosecuting. It's true that this isn't unique to the industry, but that's why so many companies use fake names. So you get a reply from "Alex" and it's just whoever answers it at the time - so that even if you call and ask for "Alex", you can be put through to anyone. As to the original point, I think it is a problem with the internet that people feel anonymous (even though they never really are) and they feel that means they can do what they want. I'm more than happy to moan and nag BW about bugs or whatever, but that's usually how I phrase it - my problem is with BW, not individuals. If I say anything specific about e.g. Eric, it is usually a question or a compliment. At least I think so! It just wouldn't occur to me to start sending messages to Eric or Amber and threaten to kill them. Aside from it being rude, offensive and criminal, what would it accomplish? I don't know where they live, I'm not gonna get on a plane to the US... and they sure as hell wouldn't be helping me with my problem. So what's the point, except that these people have some serious anger management issues?
oaceen Posted August 19, 2013 Posted August 19, 2013 As to the original point, I think it is a problem with the internet that people feel anonymous (even though they never really are) and they feel that means they can do what they want. i think this too, exacerbated by the fact that there's no threat of consequence (even perceived) for these actions.
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