mhobin Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 At this point we should all know what we have signed up for as PvP subscribers to this game. We know we will not get open world, the game engine does not support it. They tried, it failed we move on. They knew 8v8 ranked wzs would only work with cross server queues. Hell they even said it in the original tooltip. Season 1 would be released with cross server queues. Well, the engine does not support it, it failed, we move on. We need to accept that we pay to play a game with limitations. The key as a consumer is to know what you are paying for, and to manage expectations accordingly. Look, I think arenas will be fun. I hope to all hell they are supported because it is the only type of pvp we can expect. If they put the effort into making this the premier arena game on the market, there is a lot of potential. I was hoping to be excited by 2.4, my overall mood right now is "it is what it is". I think that sums up my entire attitude towards the game right now. Cheers, Hobi P.S Monthly 8 v 8 Huttball tournaments would be the best thing you could possibly do.
FourPawnBenoni Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 I think this is pretty much pointing out the obvious. It's disappointing because the pvp potential in this game is so great; if only it wasn't hindered by the engine and lack of prioritization from the developers. Ranked seasons, Officially supported tournaments, new war zones (8 x8 is fine, a few more wz's would be better) are just a few things to breathe some life into pvp. My biggest concerns with arenas is 1.) It's nothing new (you can play arenas in WoW if thats what you like) and 2.) It's not the most creative pvp scenarios. Last man standing is kind of crude and lets be honest, objective based pvp is more fun. I'd like another Hutt ball map, for example.
Gren-Aluren Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 It's what happens when you fire all the original team of software engineers and designers and replace them with over paid code monkies. The current dev team for Bioware are nothing but modders, really. It's why all the new content we see is just reskinned resources of stuff that existed in the game since day one. Open World PvP would work if they just had better objective-based map design.
gocard Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 I have trouble understanding why an engine would prevent cross server queues. The fact that you're able to transfer characters seems to indicate that cross server queues could be possible. From the most simplistic view, cross server queues would work by copying character data to a new server where the warzone will take place. Once the the warzone ends, the character data is copied back over to his original server.
ErikGW Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 Obviously some people don't know what a game engine actually is or how programming works :-) The HeroEngine used for SWTOR is as capable as any other engine. Programmers are all "modders" when it comes to building using an engine. You have a class library to build with, that IS the engine. Everything grows out from that framework to as far as you want to go with it. Aside from the rules and logic, most development is positioning triggers and event calls to interact with the library in scripting. Yes, this is very much the same as "modding". It is also all any game programming ever is. So when you critique the dev team by saying they are on the level of teenage hacks writing mods at home, it is kinda ridiculous that you would insist the original team was any different. No games are coded from scratch anymore. Using standard libraries/engines is required at this level so debugging isnt a nightmare. If you want to pretend to know anything about game design you should try learning about the industry. Not just what you sponge up from gamer blogs written by people like you :-)
Gren-Aluren Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 No games are coded from scratch anymore. Using standard libraries/engines is required at this level so debugging isnt a nightmare. I was talking about the engine and server back end being written by real software engineers. People who are employed to manipulate the existing engine are nothing but code monkies who are only qualified to do minor programming and script related work. So when you critique the dev team by saying they are on the level of teenage hacks writing mods at home, it is kinda ridiculous that you would insist the original team was any different. You are the one making generalizations and ridiculous assumption about modders as if none of them have any professional background or expertise. It is also all any game programming ever is Not really. But we are talking about the implementation of cross server PvP. That requires network programming and upgrading the engine to handle it if the engine is not already capable of it. Something that would require the original programmers or team who built the engine if it was to be completed in a timely fashion. Bioware Austin seen loads of layoffs since May of 2012. Which is why new content seems to not exist in any form other then re-skinning of already existing assets. If you want to pretend to know anything about game design you should try learning about the industry. Not just what you sponge up from gamer blogs written by people like you :-)
JP_Legatus Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) I have trouble understanding why an engine would prevent cross server queues. The fact that you're able to transfer characters seems to indicate that cross server queues could be possible. From the most simplistic view, cross server queues would work by copying character data to a new server where the warzone will take place. Once the the warzone ends, the character data is copied back over to his original server. I've done some programming here and there and tbh I don't see how lack of cross-server queue could be an engine limitation. Sure there are issues such as two guys having the same name etc, but most of that has already been handled. Frankly, I don't believe anything bioware says anymore. If you read the thread about assassin dps in ranked and the comments bioware made about it, and the other comments they made in the shroud thread, you'd realize you can't believe anything they say. Pretty much half of the stuff I see from those guys is blatantly false. Is it an engine problem that we can't do cross server ranked? Pretty much what they mean when they say it's an engine problem is "our programmers can't code on that level". The problem with what they're saying is we already have 8v8 and we already have server transfers. On top of that, if they can do cross-server 4v4 (arenas) they can do cross-server 8v8. What's actually going to probably happen is they will release 4v4 ranked deathmatch on the same server despite how simple this should be, but whatever, this game is already dead anyways. Edited August 14, 2013 by JP_Legatus
vermura Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 Obviously some people don't know what a game engine actually is or how programming works :-) The HeroEngine used for SWTOR is as capable as any other engine. Programmers are all "modders" when it comes to building using an engine. You have a class library to build with, that IS the engine. Everything grows out from that framework to as far as you want to go with it. Aside from the rules and logic, most development is positioning triggers and event calls to interact with the library in scripting. Yes, this is very much the same as "modding". It is also all any game programming ever is. So when you critique the dev team by saying they are on the level of teenage hacks writing mods at home, it is kinda ridiculous that you would insist the original team was any different. No games are coded from scratch anymore. Using standard libraries/engines is required at this level so debugging isnt a nightmare. If you want to pretend to know anything about game design you should try learning about the industry. Not just what you sponge up from gamer blogs written by people like you :-) What a load of nonsense. I'm a programmer myself, a REAL programmer who writes REAL code. As a programmer, you are either someone who can make a program do absolutely anything imaginable, or your a naysayer who says "it can't be done because" <insert excuse here> The only limitations you face as a programmer are not those governed by software but those governed by HARDWARE. As for saying the current crop of clowns who are programming for this game are NOT a bunch of hacks, don't make me laugh. These guys don't even test things, as should be blindingly obvious. How many patches did it take for them to fix the simple problem of companion gear not contributing stats to companions when you dismounted from a speeder? More recently, bioware failed to fix a bug with jump animations they claimed they had fixed. However, it immediately reverted to the same state as before once you dismounted from a speeder. What does that tell you? The exact same problem they had before with companions was not fixed, it was hacked. And so is everything else in this game. It's full of memory leaks, it runs like a pig, it can't address modern PC's full memory, the list goes on and on of basic fixable problems bioware has NOT fixed. It's not the engine, it's the programmers stupid.
Darkshadz Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) It's what happens when you fire all the original team of software engineers and designers and replace them with over paid code monkies. The current dev team for Bioware are nothing but modders, really. It's why all the new content we see is just reskinned resources of stuff that existed in the game since day one. Open World PvP would work if they just had better objective-based map design. SWTOR is using the beta version of the Hero engine from what I hear. The final version works much better (the game Repopulation is using it atm). We have to blame the first team for using the beta version in the first place. The team we currently have are doing what they can with what they have. BW would need to pull a FFXIV and use the final Hero engine version (which will require lots of recoding) if we are to see a working ilum pvp map, cross-server queues and far less bugs. Good luck with that. I love SWTOR but I don't like the fact that the game was released too quickly for a quick cash gain. edit: for the programmers here, feel free to correct me. I'm no programmer, just stating what other programmers have said in other threads. Edited August 14, 2013 by Darkshadz
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