Arkimor Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Bioware did not include the combat log for the betterment of the baddies who are afraid of numbers and facts. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercArcher Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 Fixed. Thats pretty much their argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnomoarigato Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 So thought this was an arrow to the knee joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelAnne Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I honestly hope BW doesn't give in to these people that can't play the game without a ton of helper tools. I agree! Seriously if there is something on the floor, it is shiny - red, yellow what ever then I as a tank dont stand in there. It is the basic 1:1 of tanking, but some people are just By the way, there is also a cast bar - so if you see that the boss etc. does cast something then maybe, just maybe intercept it or run away if you cant. Glad I tank myself, this is too funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krabcakes Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I will never understand the sentiment in this community against basic tools or UI improvements. It's almost like some people think it's going to level the playing field between the more casual, and the more hardcore players. That somehow hardcore players "cheat" with these tools and that's the reason for their success. It's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draginsbane Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 The point of the thread isnt about the tanking, its about the combat log. GOSH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucklebutt Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I will never understand the sentiment in this community against basic tools or UI improvements. It's almost like some people think it's going to level the playing field between the more casual, and the more hardcore players. That somehow hardcore players "cheat" with these tools and that's the reason for their success. It's not. Ehhh the hardcore player has become angry...... oh noes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regnor Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Here's a hypothetical...... We did this fine without combat logs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Let all the whining end! It is over, we're getting combat logs and with that, the ability to parse and analyze the data. Source: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/698619/Misc/SWTOR/fan_sum_02_qa_georg_zoeller.mp3 EDIT: Yes, I mirrored the source in case it gets deleted or something. Transcript: Interviewer: So we talk about analytics and what you guys do on the developer side. Players like to do their own analytics and how to improve their characters. What tools int he game help you do that? Will you be able to export a combat log or anything like that? Georg Zoeller: Not at this point, but it's something very high on our priority list Interviewer: What's the pro and con of having something like that in? What's your approach to players min-maxing? Georg Zoeller: I have no problem with players min-maxing. I'm min-maxing myself. We do have pretty good... the tooltips are pretty good. The information on the items I think is pretty good. We're right now lacking a bit is in the evaluating your performance or your group's performance. Umm what I can tell you is there's no conspiracy where we're like we're hiding this so people aren't discriminating against other players. If you want to, you know, run a very competitive operations group and you wanna improve, having this data is certainly interesting. Umm and we're not against it, it's just right now not in. Will it make it in for launch? We don't know at this point but it's very high priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) I will never understand the sentiment in this community against basic tools or UI improvements. It's almost like some people think it's going to level the playing field between the more casual, and the more hardcore players. That somehow hardcore players "cheat" with these tools and that's the reason for their success. It's not. Agreed. It's going to do the opposite. It's going to show which players can do without these tools and which can't. Protip: good players don't even need these tools, they figure everything out without them. Even a monkey can figure out what the best rotations are when you have a glaring counter staring at you saying "This rotation is bad" or "This rotation is good". Now I don't see the reason why bad players should be completing hardest content. If you play Epic Raids (or heroic or nightmare or whatever they're called here), it's up to everyone to bring their best. If someone has an agenda of sabotaging you, they can do it even with all the tools you can imagine without you noticing a thing. If someone is just watching TV and not doing DPS, then someone should notice that. Please, BW, leave the game as it is, it's fine like it is. Players should be rewarded for smart playing and situational awareness, not parsing combat logs. I.e. playing the game, not playing the numbers. Edited December 22, 2011 by Truga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryancwn Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) Combat log helps you to evaluate the situation but not having it doesn't mean you can't do w/e you need to do in a raid. Combat log does not stop people from raiding etc. It sure help them to improve their efficiency but ppl here are making it to looks like it hinder your ability to evaluate the situation. And from some comment. some ppl just want the log to shift the blame when a wipe is mostly a group responsible. REPHRASE: Combat log is only a tool to help you to improve and evaluate the raid. Reading comments from this thread, looks like lot of ppl rely on it mainly to shift the blame instead of using it for evaluating /improving /min-maxing. Edited December 22, 2011 by ryancwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owenthorn Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 a priority does not equal you are getting, read the text, not the answer you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sai-to Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 If you "all of a sudden" died, then that's probably a clue you can't tank that hard mode, or you weren't paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakinor Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 It saddens me greatly how much people depend on a combat log because they cant see what killed them.....guess the dps meters really crippled the average player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AriasImmortal Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Bioware did not include the combat log for the betterment of the community. To the detriment of people who actually strive to improve at the game, you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydrott Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I used to be a min-maxer, then i took a SWTOR in the knee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AriasImmortal Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 It saddens me greatly how much people depend on a combat log because they cant see what killed them.....guess the dps meters really crippled the average player It's nice to know specifics, like precisely how much damage you took, et cetera. I've been killed plenty of times in PvE without seeing a single damage number pop over my head as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadricTycho Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 If you "all of a sudden" died, then that's probably a clue you can't tank that hard mode, or you weren't paying attention. I am guessing that these combat log haters and people ragging on the OP have never tanked or healed very tough content when they had gear that could just barely do it or gear that had not yet been optimized for the kind of damage that was being dealt by a tough boss. Just for the haters. A combat log isn't easy-mode. It is the way to tell how to beat very hard content which otherwise might take ages to beat through trial and error. I am not sure if such content exists yet in this game, but it seems lame to hate a combat log just the same. Besides, a combat log also keeps the game designers honest. Sometimes they design buggy combat mechanics and these mechanics make beating the boss a random thing rather than a game of skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) Just for the haters. A combat log isn't easy-mode. It is the way to tell how to beat very hard content which otherwise might take ages to beat through trial and error. I am not sure if such content exists yet in this game, but it seems lame to hate a combat log just the same. Here's the thing: 1) Combat log is easy mode. 2) Because combat log is easy mode, content difficulty gets scaled to the point where multiple mistakes per encounter aren't tolerated, and very very specific mechanics are introduced to keep people who parse+min/max at bay. Edit: Basically to keep the game challenging even with combat logs. 3) Combat log becomes mandatory for everyone. Saying that combat log isn't easy mode is because games that allow all kinds of tools are balanced around them. And the only people getting screwed by them are the ones that shouldn't need them. (i.e. casuals) Edit2: Oh and, I love numbers. I'd use and abuse all kinds of tools just to get that 1 dps more, just to get that 1 hp more, just to get that 1 second longer to live. Most people just want to play a game. Which is why I'm of the opinion that playing the game should be what rewards people in-game, not metagaming. Edited December 22, 2011 by Truga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnerf Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) Oh how I will enjoy all the tears when combat log and addon patch comes. Then you can continue being terrible even with the tools they give you to make content "easier." Even then, just like in wow, all you will do is sit on the sidelines and complain about how easy everything is, without ever trying or even touching any of it while watching proper guilds and proper people kill the content for you. But hey, thats why they have youtube am I right? Glory days ahead. Edited December 22, 2011 by Schnerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadricTycho Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Here's the thing: 1) Combat log is easy mode. 2) Because combat log is easy mode, content difficulty gets scaled to the point where multiple mistakes per encounter aren't tolerated, and very very specific mechanics are introduced to keep people who parse+min/max at bay. Edit: Basically to keep the game challenging even with combat logs. 3) Combat log becomes mandatory for everyone. Saying that combat log isn't easy mode is because games that allow all kinds of tools are balanced around them. And the only people getting screwed by them are the ones that shouldn't need them. (i.e. casuals) You make a good point, however the fact is that min/maxing is a very big part of every game. It is going to happen whether casual players like it or not. What has always happened in the past (or at least the WoW formula) is to allow the casuals to face the same exact content on an easier mode. And then allow the hard-core gamers to min/max and explore the content on a harder mode. This keeps both kinds of players happy. I am pretty sure we will eventually see the same thing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Oh how I will enjoy all the tears when combat log and addon patch comes. Then you can continue being terrible even with the tools they give you to make content "easier." Even then, just like in wow, all you will do is sit on the sidelines and complain about how easy everything is, without ever trying or even touching any of it. Glory days ahead. Except, this game is very easy, even without any tools. It makes me wonder who the terribad person here is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnerf Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Except, this game is very easy, even without any tools. It makes me wonder who the terribad person here is. I'm sure, you've cleared everything on the nightmare mode, right? It's oh so very easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grcpan Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Don't worry, I'll just change to my other spec and help heali- Oh wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auricli Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I have an "I win" macro righ-- Oh wait... get over it. It's coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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