What were they thinking?

[Smuglebunny]

I understand the "1 roll" to the Slinger...that was needed as they had not a single skill to scape from melees....

 

 

 

 

they don't have leg shot, or knockback or cover or flashbang, or dirty kick, THEY HAVE NOTHING!!!

 

how will they get away?!! lol

 

Another complaint from a know not.

 

The roll in both classes is not OP has been proved not OP in many threads with math.

 

A combat carnage sent or mara can make his WHOLE TEAM almost as fast as a ROLLING smugg twice in a row for quite a while. If that's not OP the roll isn't.

 

They can make the whole team into rolling ops for a long time twice in a row and more.

 

The roll isn't in the realm of OP it just takes getting used to your easy prey no longer being easy.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Smuglebunny

[Tankqull]

1. that operative is not a healer

2. that operative was extreemly lucky with random drop from jump thing

3. other team is bad

4. pvp was balanced pre 2.0 mostly yes, tell that to merc/comando dps and sorcerers dps, bubble stun fest rings the bell? my pt loves his shoulder cannon, no one will stun and cap under my PT tank

5. were you that 3 button PT pyro in pre.2.0 and that's why you think 'it was balanced and should stay that way'?

6. as seen from minute 3:00 he is moving faster on his feet while carrying the ball than rolling with it ...

[Jarfunkz]

So...if dealing vs Operatives wasn't hard enought with their vanish, stuns, and Stealth...now they have that roll they can do 4 times in a row to get out of combat and use normal stealth...what the hell? Was it really needed? I understand the "1 roll" to the Slinger...that was needed as they had not a single skill to scape from melees....but 4 rolls for a class that can use stealth and vanish?? What were they Thinking???

 

 

Yes, I just started doing PVP since 2.0 came out and I don't understand some changes...still mad at "force barrier".

 

Just stop right there. You are trying to reason with big wigs who have never played a video game and decided to gut all expenses on a game. Don't try to rationalize, you don't understand where they are coming from.

 

They want money. They have their cash cow (cartel Market) and that is how they are going to get their money. New, better pvp, warzones, etc will not bring them money.

[Gren-Aluren]

Im trying to think when I saw Han Solo or one of the Admirals on the Fleet do a 'Scamper' - erm... Dumbest thing I have seen in PvP tbh. They can even out run a Force user because of the 15 second cool down they have, they can heal/scamper/heal/scamper - you can the idea.

 

But Bioware have always been sleeping with this class since launch so its to be expected.

 

The class's only defense is mobility. It has the worst defensive cooldowns in the game. The class was vulnerable to kiting because it was the only melee class without a gap closer. They were irrelevant after excessive nerfing to the class, you are absolutely on crack if you think it's Biowares favorite class. Just because a Scoundrel ran away so you can't get your stupid greedy kill doesn't mean it's over powered. The class isn't contributing to a damn thing if it's running away from combat. After all the time the Scoundrel spent running out of combat to regen it's the same length of time if he would have just died.

 

Not too mention the classes that counter both stealth and Scoundrel have no issues what so ever shutting them down. People need to learn what balance and counters are.

 

That was the ONLY counter to the smash trains and that's why people used it. People didnt waste a bunch of points in the tele tree just to mess with other players. Another difference is that bubble didnt win objectives, like the rolls do. On a personal level I didnt consider it a problem at all. I do however consider it to be a problem that one guy can be on the next door in voidstar before I've even reached the bridge or has the ball before I've reached the top of the ramp.

 

Not really sure what you people base your scenariors on. Is it ranked? Try the other 98,3 % of all games played, the normal warzones. I wouldnt even say that scoundrel is balanced for ranked, it's just that the 8 players on the other teams are prepared for it by bringing their own operative. Nor is operative in any way making the games more fun or interesting. In normal warzones you only get to pick a maximum of half the players and if the warzone has 15 average players and one really talented one you better hope that the good one isnt an operative (healer) because he will single handedly win the game. No other class can do that to the same extent, simply because they don't have the tools.

 

Bubble stun was overpowered against the Sorcerers hard counters, period.

 

Your complaint is about how it's overpowered in Huttball. It's not overpowered in a sense it has no counters, because it absolutely does.

 

The issue is the old Warzones are obsolete and were never designed for all the new abilities and counters. That's like when people were complaining Guardians were overpowered in Huttball because of Guardian Leap and also when they added the reset to Force Leap cooldown after Force Push.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Gren-Aluren

[Velsix]

But Bioware have always been sleeping with this class since launch so its to be expected.

 

They have been sleeping through the entire development of the game. Some of the changes are hilarious. There is such a good base blueprint from WoW (no one would really care if this game was WoW dressed up as star wars, lets be honest). EA has been sleeping with MMO development since Warhammer; some of the mistakes they made there were made here. These guys should hire some players as consultants before they do stuff.

[Kento-Solo]

I don't really complain about most of the nerfs or buffs that are done in this game, but this one is pretty match breaking. I can't catch an agent that while were at opposite doors at a voidstar, he rolls 3-4 times, gets a door, his energy is near full or full, rinse and repeat with some stealth in there to make it that much harder to catch. I wouldn't mind making it a 5 second cool down between rolls, something to even it out and give anyone a chance to catch up.

[Kovaos]

Thank God someone finally brought up this issue!

[Gren-Aluren]

I don't really complain about most of the nerfs or buffs that are done in this game, but this one is pretty match breaking. I can't catch an agent that while were at opposite doors at a voidstar, he rolls 3-4 times, gets a door, his energy is near full or full, rinse and repeat with some stealth in there to make it that much harder to catch. I wouldn't mind making it a 5 second cool down between rolls, something to even it out and give anyone a chance to catch up.

 

Play a Vanguard or Commando, you know, the hard counter to the class. It's not like they can't be pulled or rooted, either.

 

 

Gunslinger can place their AoE in the choke points a second before the bomb goes off or Troopers can place stealth scan; there should be no issues with a Scoundrel getting too far ahead of everyone on Voidstar. It's also impossible for a Scoundrel to cap anything that is guarded by a Vanguard or to run away from a Commando.

 

The only Warzone where Scamper is an issue is Novare Coast and them being able to get to East before it's capped. The solution is simple: remove the speed buff in the center of the map (Or have it spawn later in the match). People should just deal with the Huttball problem since everyone has gotten use to Guardians being gods of it after their changes. If you are getting capped on Civil War or Hypergate early by a Scoundrel then the problem is you and your team.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Gren-Aluren

[gocard]

1. that operative is not a healer

 

Who cares? The claim was that operatives run out of energy in 4 rolls. I was providing evidence that that's not the case.

[Gren-Aluren]

Who cares? The claim was that operatives run out of energy in 4 rolls. I was providing evidence that that's not the case.

 

It does matter because Scrapper tree gets a 50% speed boost and cheaper Scamper.

 

I highly doubt all these complaints are about Sawbones Scoundrels running away, if so, that's just laughable.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Gren-Aluren

[gocard]

It does matter because Scrapper tree gets a 50% speed boost and cheaper Scamper.

 

I highly doubt all these complaints are about Sawbones Scoundrels running away, if so, that's just laughable.

 

Fair enough.

 

I think that calling the ability or operative/scoundrels in general overpowered is a bit much. But to me, it does feel like after 2.0, the power and influence that sages and scoundrels (and their mirrors) wield in warzones became disproportionately higher than other advanced classes. And it feels like that's in large part due to the survivability abilities that were added to them, plus boosts to healing.

 

It just feels a bit unbalanced, and there's room for improvement.

[Zunayson]

It's called Electro-Net. The hard counters to Scoundrel have absolutely no issues shutting the class down. It's not over powered.

 

The roll is not overpowered, but electro net is. For 9 seconds.

 

I believe this is what they call an iWin button; I'd rather electro net be made less extreme but still have a shorter CD. A minute at the very most, pref. 45 seconds, especially arsenal. WTB set bonus?

[Gren-Aluren]

Fair enough.

 

I think that calling the ability or operative/scoundrels in general overpowered is a bit much. But to me, it does feel like after 2.0, the power and influence that sages and scoundrels (and their mirrors) wield in warzones became disproportionately higher than other advanced classes. And it feels like that's in large part due to the survivability abilities that were added to them, plus boosts to healing.

 

It just feels a bit unbalanced, and there's room for improvement.

 

I personally feel they shouldn't have added any of the level 51 abilities. They should have just expanded the trees.

 

 

 

The roll is not overpowered, but electro net is. For 9 seconds.

 

I believe this is what they call an iWin button; I'd rather electro net be made less extreme but still have a shorter CD. A minute at the very most, pref. 45 seconds, especially arsenal. WTB set bonus?

 

 

In my opinion it is only overpowered on DPS Scoundrel because it relies so heaviliy on mobility and stealth for defense. It's probably the most extreme counter I've ever seen on a single class in any game. If they nerf Scamper then they definitely need to remove Electro-Net entirely from the game.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Gren-Aluren

[Kerensk]

It's called Electro-Net. The hard counters to Scoundrel have absolutely no issues shutting the class down. It's not over powered.

 

Electro-net is on a 2 minute cooldown. What is the cooldown on a roll or even a series of rolls?

 

1. Roll should drop the ball in Huttball. Every other "OP" skill drops the ball when used.

2. Rolling in Voidstar is a game winner. I'd you get through the door stealthed even an Electro-net can't counter it. Suicide and respawn when the doors blow is the only option and doesn't help at the bridge or force fields. The only way to make that remotely fair is a short cooldown between rolls. 2-3 GCDs.

[Gren-Aluren]

Electro-net is on a 2 minute cooldown. What is the cooldown on a roll or even a series of rolls?

 

1. Roll should drop the ball in Huttball. Every other "OP" skill drops the ball when used.

2. Rolling in Voidstar is a game winner. I'd you get through the door stealthed even an Electro-net can't counter it. Suicide and respawn when the doors blow is the only option and doesn't help at the bridge or force fields. The only way to make that remotely fair is a short cooldown between rolls. 2-3 GCDs.

 

Plenty of ways to prevent stealthers from getting through that choke point stealthed.

[Smuglebunny]

Electro-net is on a 2 minute cooldown. What is the cooldown on a roll or even a series of rolls?

 

1. Roll should drop the ball in Huttball. Every other "OP" skill drops the ball when used.

2. Rolling in Voidstar is a game winner. I'd you get through the door stealthed even an Electro-net can't counter it. Suicide and respawn when the doors blow is the only option and doesn't help at the bridge or force fields. The only way to make that remotely fair is a short cooldown between rolls. 2-3 GCDs.

 

Leaps don't drop the ball, force speed doesn't drop the ball, trans/pred doesn't drop the ball, guarded by the force doesn't drop the ball, shroud/resilience doesn't drop the ball, Trooper/BH speed boost doesn't drop the ball.

 

 

Trancendance makes the whole team as fast as rolling ops....

 

so how can ONE toon making himself that fast be OP? Is it cuz the toon is not a marauder or sentinel?

 

As someone who has 14 toons on just ONE server...

 

I don't have a problem catching smuggs/agents as my 12 other toons, and as a GS/Operative I don't feel very OP.

 

Its just not OP when compared with other classes abilities. You know like buffing the whole ops group in various ways multiple times, only class that can do...

Edited August 2, 2013 by Smuglebunny

[gocard]

nvm...deleted Edited August 2, 2013 by gocard

[cub-lover]

Poor thing, you had a hard time killing the weakest class in the game pre-2.0?

 

How dare they give utility and mobility to the only class that lacked it. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING NERF IT NOW

 

These threads are ever so adorable.

 

im sorry but the ONLY?! class that lacked it?, yeah because pre 2.0 arsenal mercs were everywehre in pvp oh wait.. no it was all pyro PT/VG's and smash monkies

 

the class already has enough mobility and utility WITHOUT the stupid roll and in terms ov pvp they roll 4 times no enegy oh well doesnt matter they still planted/scored/capped quicker than you did for this reason alone i refused to buy scamper/exilftrate when my op hit 51 (now 55)

[MahneWarrior]

Protip: Have people keep slows on the roller! Crazy I know! Wait... I am sorry! Nerf teamwork!

 

I just wish they put a little more effort into the animation, looks choppy hehe.

Edited August 3, 2013 by MahneWarrior