Commando - Assault Spec Hybrid 2.0 PVE Guide

[LordKantner]

From the parses I've done, the more you hit the target, as in # of attacks, the more crit becomes less of a factor.

 

Assault hits the target about 3 times as much as Gunnery would.

 

I'm mixing mod combinations and doing about 40 parses each combo, and anything above 200 crit has had less dps than pure power.

 

200 crit rating was 31 parses below, 9 parses higher than the pure power parse average, which for me was about 3150.

 

If everything crits perfectly you do more dps, but crit isn't reliable always.

 

So I know its def below 200, still not sure about the sweet spot though.

 

And this is in my 1/12/33 spec, I'd imagine full assault would be even less rating since you're adding all the ticks from AP that may not crit.

 

 

 

Side note:

 

The only thing crit rating is really going to effect are Dot ticks, HiB, and AP if you're going full assault. A 43% crit on charged bolts vs a 47% crit isn't going to have a big difference with that epic 2 piece set bonus. (43% coming from my 28% + 15% set bonus).

 

And you are doing Charged bolts quite a bit, usually being top or the 2nd most damaging ability.

Edited October 8, 2013 by LordKantner

[LordKantner]

The sweet spot of crit is about 120 rating for Assault Spec. This can be achieved from either 2 crit mods, or a Dread Forged Implant/Earpiece.

[corbyone]

The sweet spot of crit is about 120 rating for Assault Spec. This can be achieved from either 2 crit mods, or a Dread Forged Implant/Earpiece.

 

Is this for your hybrid, full assault or both?

[LordKantner]

Is this for your hybrid, full assault or both?

 

Both. Any lower crit would be detrimental, at the current level it's more than 1% per mod.

 

Usually I would say Full Assault would require less crit, since you're adding a 3rd dot a majority of the time, but it ended up needing the exact same as my hybrid.

 

P.S.

 

Posted some parses for Dread Fortress in my hybrid, I'm currently beating all commandos by a good 200-500 dps in the first 4 fights, so I hope more people start submitting their fights so I have something to beat.

[kennethdale]

I've been wanting to try this for a few weeks and finally got around to it today. Obviously, I have much more experience in gunnery but even so I had some odd results. I had one parse that was better than my gunnery best, and the rest that were much much worse. My opening is Explosive dart>Electronet>TSO>PS>Fusion Missile>Incendiary Missile>Unload> RS etc. I'm sort of missing where power shot fits in. Ibwas sort of using it as I had used TM but that feels wrong. Also, how are you guys using unload? Just on occasion to get a RS proc. Basically, I'm pretty much completely lost on the whole damn spec xD.

 

EDIT

 

So I converted the guide into merc terms just to make sure I've understood everything:

 

1/12/33

 

Opener:

1) Explosive Dart

2) Electro Net

3) Thermal Sensor Override

4) Power Surge

5) Fusion Missile

6) Incendiary Missile

7) Rail Shot

8) Unload

9) Rail Shot (Or Power Shot until Prototype Particle Accelerator Proc)

 

Rotation Options:

A) Rail Shot > Power Shot > Rapid Shots > Power Shot > Rail Shot

B) Rail Shot > Unload > Power Shot > Rail Shot

C) Rail Shot > Incendiary Missile > Power Shot > Power Shot > Rail Shot (For when you need to re-apply IM)

D) Rail Shot > Rapid Shots > Rapid Shots > Rapid Shots > Unload > Rail Shot (For when heat is high)

 

Add in Fusion Missile on CD, however use Thermal Sensor Override before or Vent Heat after it.

 

Here is where I'm getting a bit confused: Its pretty clear why you would use Rotation C or D, but is the difference between A and B simply preference? I'm fairly certain I was using Power Shot too much. As I said, I sort of fell into the habit of using Power Shot like I used Tracer Missile in Arsenal.

 

Also, I'm a bit confused about how one would modify the rotation for full Pyro and which is better? Please help a silly Arsenal Merc learn a more interesting spec!

Edited October 12, 2013 by kennethdale

[LordKantner]

I believe you would put Thermal Detonator/Assault Plastique into filler C. Right after your heat lowers is the best time.

 

The issue is you have a 6s filler and a 15s cd on AP/TD, so it is going to change in the filler, and sometimes you will even have to use Full auto to proc HiB because something will be using up the 4th gcd.

[kennethdale]

I believe you would put Thermal Detonator/Assault Plastique into filler C. Right after your heat lowers is the best time.

 

The issue is you have a 6s filler and a 15s cd on AP/TD, so it is going to change in the filler, and sometimes you will even have to use Full auto to proc HiB because something will be using up the 4th gcd.

 

I posted this over on the Merc side but since I got a response over here I'll put it here too so you mandos can call me a scrub too

 

I've been playing around with Pyro for the last couple days (tried the hybrid 1/12/33 and two variations of pure Pyro [much thanks to Odawg for the help with these] 0/10/36 and 2/8/36) and have worked up a rotation of sorts but I'd be interested to hear what others have been doing:

 

Adrenal > Incendiary Missile/Incendiary Round > Explosive Dart > Thermal Detonator > Electronet > Power Surge/Tech Override > Thermal Sensor Override/Reserve Powercell > Fusion Missile/Plasma Grenade > Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt > Power Shot/Charged Bolts

 

After that I basically fit things in with the following priority:

1) Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt (On burning target)

2) Incendiary Missile/Incendiary Round (Without Clipping)

3) Electronet

4) Thermal Detonator/Assault Plastique

5) Fusion Missile/Plasma Grenade (With TSO/RP)

6) Power Shot/Charged Bolts

7) [Optional] Explosive Dart/Explosive Round (for movement)

8) Rapid Shots/Hammer Shot (for movement or when heat is too high/ammo too low)

 

I haven't really had any heat/ammo issues except when I make the mistake of re-applying IM/IR too early, aside from that my heat starts to get high/ammo start to get low just when Vent Heat/Recharge Cells comes off of CD and that's without really using Rapid Shots/Hammer Shot at all. Right now I'm using TorAssistant to help me get a feel for the length of IM/IR since the amount of heat I build up/ammo I lose when I re-apply it early is insane. Another thing I've been doing is similar to the Tracer Missile/Grav Rround>Unload/Full Auto trick from Arsenal/Gunnery: During every cast of Power Shot/Charged Bolts, I press my Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt hotkey and that way if it procs it goes off immediately and if not I can smoothly go right back into a Power Shot/Charged Bolts.

 

As for numbers, its not surprising that the on dummy parses are higher than my personal best for Arsenal/Gunnery (~2700). What shocks me is how much higher they are. I've been able to pretty consistently (barring personal error) hit ~2850 with Pyro/Assault which using KBNs scalar puts me at 3130 DPS. That's 430 DPS higher than Arsenal/Gunnery. Are other people seeing gains that large or is it more likely that I just suck at Arsenal?

 

One thing I forgot to add was that I end up having a cycle with Fusion Missile/Plasma Grenade, TSO/RP and PS/TO. The first FM/PG is with both, the second with only TSO/RP, third with both, etc. It seems to work very well. If I end up feeling more comfortable I might start doing what Katner suggests and simply rotate it on CD with TSO/RP and VH/RC. So it would go TSO/RP>PS/TO>FM/PG...FM/PG>VH/RC...TSO/RP>FM/PG...FM/PG>VH/RC...TSO/RP>PS/TO>FM/PG...etc. Or at least I think it would

[LordKantner]

Prioritys should be:

 

1. HiB/Rail shot

2. AP/TD

3. Plasma Cell/Combustable Gas Cylinder

4. IR/IM

 

Only way to do 3 is to make sure the internal cd of the cell/cylinder is in the middle of your filler so you have a good 3s leeway between reapplication from HiB/Rail shot. The best way to do this is with an Explosive Round or Missile Blast.

[kennethdale]

Prioritys should be:

 

1. HiB/Rail shot

2. AP/TD

3. Plasma Cell/Combustable Gas Cylinder

4. IR/IM

 

Only way to do 3 is to make sure the internal cd of the cell/cylinder is in the middle of your filler so you have a good 3s leeway between reapplication from HiB/Rail shot. The best way to do this is with an Explosive Round or Missile Blast.

 

I'll have to do some testing but I'm not sure I agree with that. Part of the reason this is working so well for me is the heat/ammo management and both of the abilities you mention have relatively heat/ammo cost for relatively low damage and are instant which tends to burn more resources since you aren't regenning during cast. I'll take a look at some of my parses and see if I had any issues with CGC falling off to check this as well since I wasn't using rapid shots/hammer shot.

 

EDIT

 

Reviewed a few of the parses and it looks like the only times CGC fell off for more than a second (pretty reasonable IMO) were at times when more than 4 other abilities were off CD at the same time. For example, while refreshing TD/AP, Electronet, FM/PG, IM/IR while having a PPA/IA proc. Apparently, I was using the RS/HiB last or late enough that it didn't refresh the CGC/PC. What strikes me as more odd is that in a 254 second parse (ended up cutting a bit shorter than intended) I used RS/HiB 62 times which works out to having used it every 4.1 seconds.

 

EDIT

 

Wait, Rail Shot now deals OH damage, right? So its not 62 hits, its 31...which is 8.2 seconds between RS/HiB which is ~2 seconds longer than it should be. Hmm. Any theory crafters think that 2 seconds is a decent margin for error or should it be lower?

Edited October 13, 2013 by kennethdale

[LordKantner]

EDIT

 

Wait, Rail Shot now deals OH damage, right? So its not 62 hits, its 31...which is 8.2 seconds between RS/HiB which is ~2 seconds longer than it should be. Hmm. Any theory crafters think that 2 seconds is a decent margin for error or should it be lower?

 

You get double the heat back.........

 

Shh.

[odawgg]

Gratz on sticky

[LordKantner]

Gratz on sticky

 

Thank you.

 

New personal bests in Dread Fortress. Updated gear, but that is bound to change soon. Dread Palace Parses will be up in a few days.

 

Minor changes to list everything from 2.4 and Full Assault Spec.

[NovaKenoby]

Hi, could someone pls tell me what should be opener and rotation priorities if I'm 0/10/36. My gear is 72/78 except 1 Arkanian implant and 2 69 armorings. Best result i could get on dummy is 2610 over 5 minutes. I was gunnery before i saw this post but my results on dummy were slightly vorse. Thx

 

Forgot to say that I have 4 pcs set bonus.

Edited October 16, 2013 by NovaKenoby

[bradvanhorn]

Really like your guide. Leveled to 53 with only 33pts in assault but wanted to try AP so I respeced to 36pts. I am still leveling but still the addition of AP actually makes my rotation feel more disjointed. Is there a good 0/10/36 guide posted somewhere? I may just return to the non AP spec since my rotation felt pretty nice and smooth when I was without AP, or maybe I just need to practice more. Thanks!

[kennethdale]

Really like your guide. Leveled to 53 with only 33pts in assault but wanted to try AP so I respeced to 36pts. I am still leveling but still the addition of AP actually makes my rotation feel more disjointed. Is there a good 0/10/36 guide posted somewhere? I may just return to the non AP spec since my rotation felt pretty nice and smooth when I was without AP, or maybe I just need to practice more. Thanks!

 

AP fits in oddly since its on a completely unrelated cooldown that doesn't match with anything else. Part of the reason, imo, it ends up feeling disjointed is that with so much of Assault damage its delayed. You throw AP but it doesn't hit for a few seconds and even then you're still waiting for the DoT ticks. I play a Merc so there is the Rail Shot (HiB) bug in my favor but my basic opener is:

 

AP > Electro Net > Relic/Adrenal > Incendiary Round > HiB > Tech Override > Charged Bolts > Reserve Power Cells > Plasma Grenade

 

From there it depends whether or not I procced Ionic Accelerator for another HiB, if I did then I hit it if not its Charged Bolt spam. After that I follow this priority list:

 

1) Electro Net

2) Incendiary Round

3) Assault Plastique

4) High Impact Bolt

5) Plasma Grenade (With RPC or RPC and TO)

6)a. Full Auto (for Ammo management)

6)b. Charged Bolts (when I don't need to manage Ammo)

7) Hammer Shot

 

Now, remember that for me using Full Auto is purely a DPS loss since I'm getting 8 more resource back per HiB as a Merc. As for fitting in IR and AP refreshes into there, it gets a bit problematic. Both use a decent chunk of ammo and if you're in anything up than top tier regen, you risk pushing yourself into a situation when Recharge Cells becomes a necessity. That's why I list those things as higher priority than HiB. I find its best that if one or both is off CD or needs to be refreshed at the same time (if its not up at that moment, cast something else and keep rolling. Wasted GCDs is wasted DPS) as I get a IA proc then I'll use one or both before the HiB so that I get a bit of that ammo back.

 

Another trick you Mandos might find helpful for managing Ammo is using Full Auto after every other HiB. Since Full Auto has its ammo cost upfront whereas Charged Bolts has it after the cast you effectively spend the Ammo then get a full 3 seconds of regen versus regenning during the cast and then having to use more ammo. Particularly if you chain a FA into a CB since then you're looking at 4.5 seconds of regen which is actually a lot in anything other than your lowest regen tier. I'm not 100% sure why it ends up being a loss since FA should deal more damage but I know my DPS goes down by about 100 when I do this :/

[LordKantner]

 

1) Electro Net

2) Incendiary Round

3) Assault Plastique

4) High Impact Bolt

5) Plasma Grenade (With RPC or RPC and TO)

6)a. Full Auto (for Ammo management)

6)b. Charged Bolts (when I don't need to manage Ammo)

7) Hammer Shot

 

It should be:

 

HiB>AP>Plasma Cell>Incendiary Round

 

Electro Net should be easy enough to fit into a filler off cooldown. There is an entire section of my guide regarding Plasma Grenade and when it should be used as well.

 

I literally just said the same thing a few posts ago.

Edited October 17, 2013 by LordKantner

[kennethdale]

It should be:

 

HiB>AP>Plasma Cell>Incendiary Round

 

Electro Net should be easy enough to fit into a filler off cooldown. There is an entire section of my guide regarding Plasma Grenade and when it should be used as well.

 

I literally just said the same thing a few posts ago.

 

I tend to disagree with your priorities...electro net is a huge dot on a huge CD so getting it out as soon as its off CD should be your number 1 priority. As with other DoT Specs, keeping maximum uptime on dots is always your top priority and since keeping up PC with 100% uptime is impossible its important to keep your other DoTs up without clipping them. I focus on the one DoT that is easy to control: IR. Plasma Grenade gets a bit tough in pure Assault since it is so damn expensive. I don't really prioritize it which is why I line it up with RPC or RPC/TO though I've been considering using TO solely for CB in movement.

 

I'm still doing a lot of testing right now trying to figure out what works for me the best so I'm not trying to say that what I do is the best, all I can say is that what I'm doing is working very well for me. I'm in really crappy gear...non-optimized 69s/72s with a few smatttered 78 mods/enh and yet I'm outdpsing Maras and Snipers left and right. One of the big question marks in my rotation atm is FA...it SHOULD be more DPS to use it after every other HiB but when I do that I lose about 100 DPS. I'm not sure why but perhaps its because of the occasional delay between IA proc and actually hitting HiB which then causes me to miss out on an earlier next IA proc. I'm still trying to work out a good way to make it work. I've been using the old Grav Round>Full Auto trick (press the hotkey for Full Auto when in the middle of a Grav Round cast so that it goes off if it procs) but its difficult since its an instant so occasionally I'll get a GCD bug if IA doesn't proc.

 

My point is I'm just trying to figure out what I need to do for max DPS and pass on what information I've gleaned. Not trying to step on toes, man.

[odawgg]

I'll chime in on Electro Net... When it comes to abilities that have a cd, generally speaking, shorter cd abilities take priority over longer cd abilities... Making Electro Net lower priority than AP and IR. the logic behind this is what you lose by making an ability with a cd wait. The equation would be something like (time it sits off cd) / (length of cd) x (damage done by ability). So if you wait 7-8 seconds (just an example) to fire AP you lose roughly half it's damage for that particular cast of that ability 7.5/15 = 1/2 x damage. This logic is based off the idea that in a given time frame, the maximum amount of times you can fire AP is every 15s so any time you make it wait is affected in the way described in this equation.

 

Let's take some arbitrary numbers for comparison sake. Let's say AP hits for 5k and EN for 10k. What do you lose by waiting one GCD to use AP? You lose 1.5/15 x 5k = 500 damage. Now take EN = 1.5/90 x 10000 = 168 damage. So in this case you can see waiting a GCD for AP is harsher than EN.

 

Now, certain boss mechanics or length of encounters can potentially alter this priority on a case by case basis but on a dummy for instance it holds true

[kennethdale]

I'll chime in on Electro Net... When it comes to abilities that have a cd, generally speaking, shorter cd abilities take priority over longer cd abilities... Making Electro Net lower priority than AP and IR. the logic behind this is what you lose by making an ability with a cd wait. The equation would be something like (time it sits off cd) / (length of cd) x (damage done by ability). So if you wait 7-8 seconds (just an example) to fire AP you lose roughly half it's damage for that particular cast of that ability 7.5/15 = 1/2 x damage. This logic is based off the idea that in a given time frame, the maximum amount of times you can fire AP is every 15s so any time you make it wait is affected in the way described in this equation.

 

Let's take some arbitrary numbers for comparison sake. Let's say AP hits for 5k and EN for 10k. What do you lose by waiting one GCD to use AP? You lose 1.5/15 x 5k = 500 damage. Now take EN = 1.5/90 x 10000 = 168 damage. So in this case you can see waiting a GCD for AP is harsher than EN.

 

Now, certain boss mechanics or length of encounters can potentially alter this priority on a case by case basis but on a dummy for instance it holds true

 

Interesting point. I'll take that into consideration. BTW, the opening I listed up there is the one I "came up with" based on reading your logs. Does it seem to match what you do?

 

TD > Relic/Adrenal > Net > IM > RS > Power Surge + Power Shot > TSO + FM > *Rail shot if procced/Power Shot to proc PPA?

 

That seemed to be what you were doing on the fights I could find you using pyro for and its what I've been doing with a lot of success. I'm also curious how you in particular fit Unload in. I know KBN advocates using it after every other RS but whenever I do that I seem to drop about 100 DPS so instead I fit it in when I'm sitting at ~30 heat after RS so that I get 4.5 seconds of regen to drop down into a lower tier.

[odawgg]

Yup, except I pop the relic and adrenal after EN, and I don't use power surge, only reason I pop EN before IM in my opener is try and maximize my adrenal... I try to pop it right before the TD explodes and also get the front loaded portion of IM in as well Edited October 18, 2013 by odawgg

[odawgg]

Unload usage I'm still ironing out the details on, I have a few different uses for it depending on the situation, I'll write more of my thoughts on it when I have more time

[kennethdale]

Yup, except I pop the relic and adrenal after EN, and I don't use power surge, only reason I pop EN before IM in my opener is try and maximize my adrenal... I try to pop it right before the TD explodes and also get the front loaded portion of IM in as well

 

Unload usage I'm still ironing out the details on, I have a few different uses for it depending on the situation, I'll write more of my thoughts on it when I have more time

 

Much appreciated, sir. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

[LordKantner]

Broke 3k on my lovely 72 MH, using a 0/13/33 spec. Must Kill Dread Masters!

 

Also put my own AMR profile as well as a BiS Profile.

Edited October 19, 2013 by LordKantner

[kennethdale]

I've been spending a lot of time on the dummy working on Assault and even though I'm not 100% sure what I'm doing differently it seems I've pushed my DPS a bit higher using FA every other HiB. I also did a hybrid though I'd bet my house and health that the DPS isn't a reflection of the spec but rather my inexperience with it.

 

Assault Hybrid - 2687

Full Assault (Without Full Auto) - 2923

Full Assault (With Full Auto) - 2962

 

I'm still having trouble fitting in plasma grenade as it seems to always just end up dropping my DPS rather than slightly boosting when I use it. I fit it in after a HiB when nothing else needs to be refreshed. If possible I'll pair it with Electro Net to try and wait out the ICD on IA.

Edited October 19, 2013 by kennethdale

[LordKantner]

Always use Reserve Powercell and Recharge Cells for a Plasma Grenade. Once you start getting good at using those to get 2/3 possible grenades, then I would practice using Plasma Grenade off cooldown, because it is very good if you can utilize it.