First Responder vs. Weapons calibrations post patch 2.0

[Rohgain]

Don't see any threads on this newer than 2012....

 

I see most builds showing 1 point in each of these skills post patch 2.0. Is there a reason to split the points instead of taking one or the other. I'm not good enough with the math to work out the difference.

[LordKantner]

As a dps, i'd say weapons calibrations, either spec. Crit is less reliable now. Heal spec you need to take both regardless....

[oaceen]

i'm still doing 1 and 1 with the nerf to crit

[OlosBC]

It was the crit stat that was nerfed. Crit itself was not nerfed.

 

Actually, crit being nerfed makes crit% from talents MORE valuable, as going from 20%-21% crit is a bigger percentage boost in damage than going from 40%-41%.

 

However, this is pretty much cancelled out by surge being nerfed, so really its pretty much just a wash.

[cashogy_reborn]

It was the crit stat that was nerfed. Crit itself was not nerfed.

 

Actually, crit being nerfed makes crit% from talents MORE valuable, as going from 20%-21% crit is a bigger percentage boost in damage than going from 40%-41%.

 

However, this is pretty much cancelled out by surge being nerfed, so really its pretty much just a wash.

 

surge wasnt nerfed....

[oaceen]

It was the crit stat that was nerfed. Crit itself was not nerfed.

actually, is the exact same thing.

even if it wasn't, getting into an argument over semantics when everyone knows what i'm talking about is pointless.

 

Actually, crit being nerfed makes crit% from talents MORE valuable, as going from 20%-21% crit is a bigger percentage boost in damage than going from 40%-41%.

which would mean something if this thread was about Field Training, but it's about Weapon Calibrations (1% alacrity per point, 2 point skill) and First Responder (50% chance per point to grant 3% alacrity for 6s, 2 point skill)

 

from your signature alone, i can't tell if you play a commando or not, so i'll just break it down for you to be safe:

normally gunnery commandos have 2 points left over to put into these two skills, so this thread is wondering if it's more beneficial to go 2/2 weapon calibrations for the guaranteed 2% alacrity boost all the time or split the points for 1% all the time and 3% only half of the time you crit.

splitting the points was definitely smarter pre-2.0, but there hasn't been much discussion about it post-2.0

 

i'm still splitting my points, and for further justification for it, the DPS Leaderboards thread shows the top arsenal merc parses using 6/36/4

not that it's irrefutable proof, but they're obviously doing something right.

 

However, this is pretty much cancelled out by surge being nerfed, so really its pretty much just a wash.

the divisor for crit is significantly higher than the divisor for surge (25x actually), so i don't know if it can really be called a wash. Edited July 25, 2013 by oaceen

[Gyronamics]

surge wasnt nerfed....

 

You don't recall having 75% surge with 110% accuracy before 2.0 then?

[OlosBC]

actually, is the exact same thing.

even if it wasn't, getting into an argument over semantics when everyone knows what i'm talking about is pointless.

 

which would mean something if this thread was about Field Training, but it's about Weapon Calibrations (1% alacrity per point, 2 point skill) and First Responder (50% chance per point to grant 3% alacrity for 6s, 2 point skill)

 

from your signature alone, i can't tell if you play a commando or not, so i'll just break it down for you to be safe:

normally gunnery commandos have 2 points left over to put into these two skills, so this thread is wondering if it's more beneficial to go 2/2 weapon calibrations for the guaranteed 2% alacrity boost all the time or split the points for 1% all the time and 3% only half of the time you crit.

splitting the points was definitely smarter pre-2.0, but there hasn't been much discussion about it post-2.0

 

i'm still splitting my points, and for further justification for it, the DPS Leaderboards thread shows the top arsenal merc parses using 6/36/4

not that it's irrefutable proof, but they're obviously doing something right.

 

the divisor for crit is significantly higher than the divisor for surge (25x actually), so i don't know if it can really be called a wash.

 

That's what I get for posting while tired without looking stuff up. Thanks for the clarification, been a long time since I looked at commando/merc skill tree, and got the skill names switched.

Edited July 25, 2013 by OlosBC

[Smuglebunny]

This thread is very informative. I was wondering where to put those 2 points....

[LordKantner]

I the current AS build 1/12/33, you take weapons calibrations and never first responder.

 

The alacrity from FR is only given if you crit, which is less likely to happen nowadays.

[ArchangelLBC]

Back when new and old 2 piece set bonuses stacked I felt it was worth it to throw a point into First responder. Everytime I parse since then though I am consistently higher putting a full 2 points into Weapon Calibrations. You're looking at only 2% extra alacrity only some of the time (each hit has basically an 11.5% chance to proc first responder, grav round has around 19% chance to proc, and our APM isn't high enough to guarantee constant up time). Pre 2.0 the proc chance was higher, and the benefit was 3% instead of 2% over just going full weapon calibrations.

 

That being said, I don't really think the difference is gonna matter either way for gunnery.

[cashogy_reborn]

You don't recall having 75% surge with 110% accuracy before 2.0 then?

 

accuracy was nerfed. you need to stack more post 2.0 to get the same benefit as pre 2.0 (the DR curve was changed significantly)

 

surge has basically the same DR curve it did pre 2.0

Edited July 25, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

[Dearthstone]

You don't recall having 75% surge with 110% accuracy before 2.0 then?

 

We are still on the first set of gear tiers in 2.0 also. So to answer your question, no I dont remember having 110% acc and 75 surge in rakata gear because it was an impossibility. Besides, isnt this post about alacrity?

[cashogy_reborn]

I dont think its worth putting points into any alacrity talents.

 

Even with both talents maxed out, youre looking at reducing the GCD down to ~1.3ish.

 

The only ability I think alacrity is worthwhile on is Full Auto, as it reduces from 3s to ~2.6s (almost a full half second off). But I would not consider even that worthwhile in PvP; from what I read it is worthwhile in PvE.

 

I am going to be testing my combat medic build w/out any points in First Responder and see if there is a tangible difference.

[SpaniardInfinity]

I am going to be testing my combat medic build w/out any points in First Responder and see if there is a tangible difference.

 

The alacrity is really a matter of preference. You want it to be long enough that you can generate enough ammo during the channel, but fast enough that people don't die while you are casting it. I've seen high, low, and no alacrity builds work -- they all have their own strengths and weaknesses.