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You young whippersnappers!


CKHelseth

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After reading these forums for the past couple of weeks more often that before I have come to realize something very important about my perspective on this game and MMOs in general. I have become my grandpa in my early 30s... I keeping thinking thoughts that begin with "back in the day" and the "day" is of course the early 2000's :p

 

I see it in a lot of threads and subsequent responses from other posters who seem heavily influenced in their attitudes and approach to issues in MMOs by how it used to be. I know I am. Just using the "big" issues of the minute for example;

 

I hear:

I got flagged while doing PvE by some griefer! They forced me to PvP and I didn't want to!

 

I think:

"It happens, it has been happening forever. I mean seriously back in the day players used to flag on PvE servers and follow people around to gank them because every AOE would get you flagged!" or "Yeah sucks but what is the big deal? Its not like you had to go find a dancer or doctor to get rid of the black on your HAM bars after it happened a few times..." or "A least they didn't loot your body and take all your money and armor."

 

I hear:

The raid leader switched to Master Looter and took all the loot! Devs HALP!

 

I think:

Back in the day we blacklisted that SOB. We told our guild! We told every guild! The community handled these players. They wouldn't be able to get a heal in PvP after a few days and disappeared from the server not long after.

 

I hear:

The gear system is just a treadmill. Grind loot to get more loot? Fail devs! FAIL!

 

I think:

OMG this is the point of every MMO, ever. They all have gear grinds. ALL OF THEM. Any one here familiar with the phrase "green is the new purple"? Making your hard-earned loot meaningless so you grind more is the oldest form of endgame.

 

I hear:

"The Devs are avoiding this question!"

 

I think:

"So... Who are you? Wait no, I don't care. They don't care. Lets move on."

 

Other complaints I smile at, then ignore;

 

"You mean I have to run dailies over and over again to get credits?" - yeah, I used to have to find the most profitable mob I could quickly farm and spend days, some times week endlessly killing them to afford my pots and repair bills.

 

"The queue for DPS takes too long, put more DPS per group to solve the problem." - OMG the trinity has existed for over ten years. Roll a tank or healer if you want to get a group fast...

 

Now all that said it isn't an attack on the things being said or the players posting about them. A lot of us cut our teeth on far crueler MMOs that at times seemed to be designed to break our spirits. We didn't expect things to work right. We didn't expect the Devs to sort out every disagreement. Back in the day we walked uphill both ways to get our MMOs and I think it makes a lot of us a bit testy with the young whippersnappers, who by our account really don't know how good they have it, run to the forums to complain. :p

 

It just a massive difference in approach to and perspective on MMOs that I think a lot of players don't understand.

It is why you see the QQs every time anyone complains. MMOs now have two "generations" playing them. In time you young whippersnappers will be fondly recollecting the day when there was no #$%^ing hood toggle and everything clipped. You will look back on struggle you survived playing MMOs in the 2010s, before those 2020s MMO players, who will have it some much easier than you did, ruined everything and tell them to QQ more. ;)

 

I will be there too, in my early 40s. The MMO equivalent of the mean old man in your neighborhood on the corner sitting on his front porch, spraying kids with a garden hose for being on his lawn. I will ramble about MMOs back in ought three, before the dark times, before the F2P and no one will care. :D

Edited by CommunityDroidEN
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I am 41 y.o.. This is my first MMO. As far as complaints about the devs I say to players if you can make a better one, go out and do it. They can't. And I love the responses I get. Most of them call me a EAWare fanboy. But I'm not. EA has screwed up too much for me to be a fanboy. And I know I can't make better. But for situational problems i.e. autoflag pvp, deal with it people. so they put a pvp section in the Gree. Don't go there and learn how to not AoE everything and learn to play your character and then you will avoid the pvp flag. Just my 2 cents. Edited by OldRepJedi
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Yeah, I'm in my 40's and feel pretty much the same, except on 2 counts...

 

I want more solo content. And no I don't wanna die. :o

 

And two, the thing about the aoe/pvp griefing in pve land sux, cause I'm in pve land for a reason.

 

So even into our 40's there will still be things, that we want, even if there is no hope in hell that we'll ever get 'em. :p

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i enjoyed your post.

 

regarding the lack of dev communication/avoiding qeustions, i think it would be nice if they worked towards the goal of making the game better instead of worse. i just think ************ about communication is more likely to push that direction. i sincerely believe devs back in your day wanted their games to be better. a dev who says 'let's force merges in the way that makes the game the least appealing while watching a million subscribers quit, then release datacubes and ewoks through the cartel market" does not want their game to be better.

 

back then people went into the profession because they wanted to make games. this staff seems to lack that motivation and pride. their art team put fairy wing shoulder pads on armor. who would do that? who goes to work in the morning and says "bigger shoulder pads are needed?"

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I agree. I think PvE servers should just be that PvE. If I wanted to do PvP I would have rolled on a PvP server. And dev communication does pretty much suck. Actually any communication is horrid. Take the subscriber bonus that they gave out recently. They hyped it all up and what did they give us? 500 CC. Lame. Nothing unique as a sub but something I can go and spend $5 on and get myself. But I digress and am getting off topic. There are things that everyone wants to get better. The kids are looking for now, now, now. They don't want to do the grinds. Hell, I don't want to do the grinds but I do. I get credits and sometimes gear for my companions. The kids want full 55 characters with Kell Dragon armor that they can buy off the CM. Where is the fun in that? Yes this game has its tedium. If you are tired of elder game gameplay, roll an alt of a different class and start a whole new story. There are 8 distinctive story lines in the game. And then there are the different advanced classes. They want perfection and it is unobtainable. Ask anyone who works for Blizzard. They have been trying for how long?
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Just because some of us complain doesn't mean we didn't also play UO or EQ1.

 

We just watched the industry grow with us and expect more.

 

Ahhh...but the industry can only grow as fast as technology. And look at the myriad of systems that are out there. Not everyone playing is on a top of the line gaming machine. In fact most people play on machines that I bet are a little better than average. So they have to take that into account when coding the game. They have to make sure that the patches and content work for everyone, not just the people who have $3000 gaming rigs.

Edited by OldRepJedi
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Ahhh...but the industry can only grow as fast as technology. And look at the myriad of systems that are out there. Not everyone playing is on a top of the line gaming machine. In fact most people play on machines that I bet are a little better than average. So they have to take that into account when coding the game. They have to make sure that the patches and content work for everyone, not just the people who have $3000 gaming rigs.

 

None of the complaints listed by the OP (of which may or may not be valid in the first place) have anything to do with your personal computer or its capabilities.

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I hear:

"The Devs are avoiding this question!"

 

I think:

"So... Who are you? Wait no, I don't care. They don't care. Lets move on."

Who am i? I'm a paying customer. I have a question about the product i'm paying for. Are you saying that the devs avoid my question because they don't care about their paying customers, and that i should accept it and move on?

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Just because some of us complain doesn't mean we didn't also play UO or EQ1.

 

We just watched the industry grow with us and expect more.

 

Oh I agree. After more than 10 years of playing there are a lot of things I wish would improve and I still do expect more of MMOs. I don't however get too bothered with them when they don't provide. I mean, I have been killing X number of mobs to collect X number of (insert trinket/animal part) through a dozen or more MMOs. I can be mad about it, but its clearly not going away.

 

Who am i? I'm a paying customer. I have a question about the product i'm paying for. Are you saying that the devs avoid my question because they don't care about their paying customers, and that i should accept it and move on?

 

Please don't take this post as something serious or an attack on anyone. Note the many emoticons and description of myself as being "grandpa" and use of "back in the day". ;)

 

My original post is just about that knee-jerk reaction that a lot of long time MMO players feel when they see the complaints on the forums, not an attack.

 

Now lets try again!

 

Dang it all! These whippersnappers and their knee-jerk reactions to silly threads meant to bring a bit of levity and perspective. Back in the day we didn't have knees and jerks served soda!

 

...see what I did there :D

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I agree. I think PvE servers should just be that PvE. If I wanted to do PvP I would have rolled on a PvP server. And dev communication does pretty much suck. Actually any communication is horrid. Take the subscriber bonus that they gave out recently. They hyped it all up and what did they give us? 500 CC. Lame. Nothing unique as a sub but something I can go and spend $5 on and get myself. But I digress and am getting off topic. There are things that everyone wants to get better. The kids are looking for now, now, now. They don't want to do the grinds. Hell, I don't want to do the grinds but I do. I get credits and sometimes gear for my companions. The kids want full 55 characters with Kell Dragon armor that they can buy off the CM. Where is the fun in that? Yes this game has its tedium. If you are tired of elder game gameplay, roll an alt of a different class and start a whole new story. There are 8 distinctive story lines in the game. And then there are the different advanced classes. They want perfection and it is unobtainable. Ask anyone who works for Blizzard. They have been trying for how long?

 

I can't agree on devs not responding. The Summer updates and cantina tour are proof enough that the devs listen to the community. For long time now players complained that devs go quiet and don't say anything for months or what they plan down the road. Well guess what bioware post a summer update on whats to come down the road.

 

Then they get. "Oh but this isn't what we asked for?"

 

one yes you did. Peopled asked for Arenas since before launch now they get em they don't want them anymore. please.

 

two. Do you control the schedule of release content for SWTOR no. since you don't take what the devs hand you in terms of what they announce down the road. Then when the time comes for pts and testing the content send them feedback and let them attempt to fix it

 

"But I send feedback they don't listen"

 

Yeah they do. People said the new Czereka HM Flashpoints are 2 easy. What does bioware do. crank up the difficulty.

 

People wanted class representation guess what they got it.

 

They listen to feedback, just don't always expect instant gratification.

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Yeah, I'm in my 40's and feel pretty much the same, except on 2 counts...

 

I want more solo content. And no I don't wanna die. :o

 

And two, the thing about the aoe/pvp griefing in pve land sux, cause I'm in pve land for a reason.

 

So even into our 40's there will still be things, that we want, even if there is no hope in hell that we'll ever get 'em. :p

 

How could you possibly get more solo content than what we currently have? Which is pretty much... the entire game.

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They listen to feedback, just don't always expect instant gratification.

 

Yep. Hence my signature.

There used to a protest there against one use Jawagrams in packs, they listened to people's complaints and made them reusable instead.

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Ahhh...but the industry can only grow as fast as technology. And look at the myriad of systems that are out there. Not everyone playing is on a top of the line gaming machine. In fact most people play on machines that I bet are a little better than average. So they have to take that into account when coding the game. They have to make sure that the patches and content work for everyone, not just the people who have $3000 gaming rigs.

 

Graphics and sound have evolved.

 

Gameplay has seriously devolved. The AI in this game would be rudimentary on a C64.

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nice one gramps - :D - really made me laugh and some good points as well !

I'm way new to mmo's ( first time mmo'er long time gamer... like it matters :) )

 

anyway thanks for the laugh and reminding us how good we have it.

 

oh and, get the hell off my lawn you young whippersnappers! - :cool:

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Graphics and sound have evolved.

 

Gameplay has seriously devolved. The AI in this game would be rudimentary on a C64.

 

:D Love that considering my dad bought us a C64 when they first came out. But your are right. The gameplay aspect has devolved some. But the kicker is how much time the coders are wanting to spend on AI code. In Ops and FPs I will say it is better than the mobs you get when doing class missions. The Boss fights in Class missions is a little better than the mob fights. I don't think that they don't want a better gaming experience, I think it is the amount of time it takes to actually write that code. Working in IT myself, I know some of the coders that write custom programs and scripts for my company, and hearing them b**** about the code they are writing is almost hilarious. Not because they don't want to do it, but because when it's not working correctly, going through all those lines to find one little mistake can be exhaustive. So trying to write the code for new armors can be time consuming. And no not the reskins, but when they actually put out new stuff. So when it clips, I don't mind so much because I know that they have already put in hours just on that alone. So then they have to sift the code and adjust it so that it can get the best results with all body types and species. So knowing coders myself, I have some sympathy for them.

Edited by OldRepJedi
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Who am i? I'm a paying customer. I have a question about the product i'm paying for. Are you saying that the devs avoid my question because they don't care about their paying customers, and that i should accept it and move on?

 

Yeah. Pretty much. Your $12.99 to $14.99 a month does not grant you God Status. Your (Your, plural, not YOU, personally) questions are 50% trivial, 25% your fault, 20% you don't have any idea what you are saying, and maybe, just maybe 5% reasonable. Yet you expect Customer Service to take an entire day, if necessary, to give you a complete answer. (And, umm, yes, I DID make those numbers up, as a matter of fact! But I had fun doing it.)

 

Take "The Launcher Issue" (TLI) for example. This is where the patch fails to install and the Launcher won't work. This really is an issue. It's happened to me twice, but there's a fix, a complete explanation in a Sticky FAQ on the Customer Service forum. Follow those directions, and you should be fine. Most people, if they are capable of following directions in the FAQ, can fix this problem themselves.

 

BUT, out of 1.7 million computers that have, at least once, run this game, a few people cannot seem to get beyond this issue. My guess is they are in the very low hundreds, so we're talking what? .00001%? (Public math is hard. I dunno.) But people insist it's "Bioware's Problem." Well, no, remember 1.7 million PCs have done it. So why can't you? It's really your problem, and you know what? Even if it is not, BIOWARE CAN'T FIX IT FOR YOU (because they don't know how.)

 

So basically (and no more jokes, it's the heart of the matter) like it or not the expectations for service cannot be met by Biioware. They are literally incapable of giving you the level of service you desire. It's like trying to satisfy Ayelinna. You can't. It's impossible. She will NEVER be satisfied--even if you give her a direct answer she'll say you are avoiding it. It gets to the point where you just have to ignore her and I think that's where BW Customer Service is at. They don't have the resources.

 

So HERE IS THE ANSWER! If you've got a problem, buy a ticket for $35.00. We'll assign a customer service rep to the problem and grind this into the ground. That's what Microsoft does. I'm a customer of there's, too, and Office cost a lot more than a $12.99 sub to SW. I've only used Microsoft Support twice in 15 years as an IT person, and even though I got sent to India, that guy solved my very esoteric, very complex problem with MS Word.

 

So, "support" should be A) The forums with your fellow members helping you, B) the FAQs they have labored over to present, and if none of that works, C) buy a ticket.

 

And as far as TLI is concerned? If you have that issue, send your computer to me, postpaid both ways, give me admin privileges, and I can fix your problem. Yes, I'm that confident I can fix it. I have been working with computers since 1973. If I can't, I'll pay the postage both ways. One computer a week, as I have limited bandwidth.

 

Line 'em up!

 

Like I'm worried I might have to do real work.

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Yeah. Pretty much. Your $12.99 to $14.99 a month does not grant you God Status. Your (Your, plural, not YOU, personally) questions are 50% trivial, 25% your fault, 20% you don't have any idea what you are saying, and maybe, just maybe 5% reasonable. Yet you expect Customer Service to take an entire day, if necessary, to give you a complete answer. (And, umm, yes, I DID make those numbers up, as a matter of fact! But I had fun doing it.)

 

I could hear the "pop" as you nerfed the "entitlement bubble".. all they waaaaaaayyyyy over here. :)

 

I agree with you.. but there is always a silver lining. The tissue manufacturers are experiencing a renaissance of sorts in their business from all the QQ in MMO forums. :p

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