Suggested balance changes

[ArchangelLBC]

Suggestions aren't required. It was the devs who brought up the fact that if they expanded Laze Target's usage they'd balance it by increasing the cooldown. That wasn't a player suggestion.

 

The issue for us is that so many of our abilities have an absurdly long cooldown or an absurdly long cost in return for very limited utility. RP and TO for their cooldowns should honestly have their effects last 10 seconds, and we should also get an actual offensive cooldown which directly ups our damage.

 

Also keep in mind that buffs to sniper and sentinel HAVE to be a system of give and take because those two classes already lead the DPS charge. There's nothing to say that buffs to us HAVE to be balanced giving our lower starting point.

[PerinnAybara]

I meant like horse trading.

 

Give up the ability missile blast for a thirty second CD on tech override. Or trade rain of bolts for a 30 second cd on death from above.

 

My point suggest changes that gain us a lot but in a way The developers don't realize it. They over value some skills so we cash them in fir skills actually practically worth what they value it as. While keeping the skills they under value. Point is, if they obviously over value a skill we can trade it for a good skill.

Edited August 13, 2013 by PerinnAybara

[PerinnAybara]

For instance, for combat medic there is a lot of bloat and useless abilities. Trade the ones no-one uses for ones which will increase or utility. Like peace keeper.

[cashogy_reborn]

I meant like horse trading.

 

Give up the ability missile blast for a thirty second CD on tech override. Or trade rain of bolts for a 30 second cd on death from above.

 

My point suggest changes that gain us a lot but in a way The developers don't realize it. They over value some skills so we cash them in fir skills actually practically worth what they value it as. While keeping the skills they under value. Point is, if they obviously over value a skill we can trade it for a good skill.

 

That seems like some incredibly jaded logic..... And I dont think that is something worth doing.

 

We have no reason to be compromising on anything. Commando is still middle of the road at the very best in all aspects of the game. I have no interest in pandering to the devs; we either make suggestions based on the idea that we want to offer the best feedback to improve our class, or we dont make suggestions at all. Because if anything should be taken away from how Bioware takes feedback, is that they seem to think that the worst ideas players give are usually the best.

[TUXs]

That seems like some incredibly jaded logic..... And I dont think that is something worth doing.

 

We have no reason to be compromising on anything. Commando is still middle of the road at the very best in all aspects of the game. I have no interest in pandering to the devs; we either make suggestions based on the idea that we want to offer the best feedback to improve our class, or we dont make suggestions at all. Because if anything should be taken away from how Bioware takes feedback, is that they seem to think that the worst ideas players give are usually the best.

While I agree with PerinnAybara's approach, and I'll admit, it's one I too would take, I respect the fact that you won't compromise Cash. You're right. We shouldn't need to trade or swap or anything...we NEED work in a massive way! Those of us suggesting compromise are only trying to present things in a way that we think the Devs might be more receptive to, we're not arguing with the amount of work we need nor the condition we're in.

[ArchangelLBC]

We're currently already horse trading by using the old school set bonuses.

 

And really horse trading isn't really properly what's happening. They have to be the ones to horse trade since they hold all the power. The laze target example was also an example of a mediocre cooldown on an otherwise very powerful class, so expanding it's usefulness obviously has balance issues.

 

We on the other hand are decently below that bar. My sniper with 4% less Crit Multiplier and 105 less bonus damage already out parses my commando on the dummy, and I chalk that almost completely down to the ammo management issue, and also on the low utility of our actual cooldowns compared to Sniper Volley and Target Aquired.

[ManiacDavis]

We're currently already horse trading by using the old school set bonuses.

 

And really horse trading isn't really properly what's happening. They have to be the ones to horse trade since they hold all the power. The laze target example was also an example of a mediocre cooldown on an otherwise very powerful class, so expanding it's usefulness obviously has balance issues.

 

We on the other hand are decently below that bar. My sniper with 4% less Crit Multiplier and 105 less bonus damage already out parses my commando on the dummy, and I chalk that almost completely down to the ammo management issue, and also on the low utility of our actual cooldowns compared to Sniper Volley and Target Aquired.

 

I think all of the suggestions that Cash has presented are needed urgently. Yet, obviously bioware does not see it that way because lets face it, they haven't made any of these changes. For whatever reason, Bioware thinks commando is in a good place. So it is important that we remind Bioware that this is not the case when compared to our fellow RDPS or Healers.

 

For example, a sniper (RDPS) has an offensive CD, uninterruptable in cover, cannot be leapt too, AOE CC, group damage reduction buff, entrench preventing CC, a 30 m root no matter the spec... In PvP, this is a huge gap when compared with a commando who only brings mediocre off heals, electro net on a 1:30 CD, and an instant 8 sec soft cc (w/ tech override).

[PerinnAybara]

I curse the developers with every second post I do. Obviously I'm pretty jaded.

[cashogy_reborn]

I curse the developers with every second post I do. Obviously I'm pretty jaded.

 

I think we all are at this point tbh

[ArchangelLBC]

I think we all are at this point tbh

 

QFT

 

also QFE

[cashogy_reborn]

Bumping this to the first page

[szczypaczek]

I agree, gunnery suffers from interrupts to much. Why don't change reactive shield, so it provides us an inbuild unshakable buff? This would benefit all the spec not just combat medic. And the combat shield talent could provide an additional duration time for the shield or smt like that.

[ToMyMa]

I agree, gunnery suffers from interrupts to much. Why don't change reactive shield, so it provides us an inbuild unshakable buff? This would benefit all the spec not just combat medic. And the combat shield talent could provide an additional duration time for the shield or smt like that.

 

So that you're going to get your *** interrupted by me in 1v1? xD

[iPvP]

I think a very big issue is that emergency scan is 21 seconds long and it is a fairly weak heal it's self, operatives spam a move that heals for a little bit more. I think the cool down should be changed to 9 seconds. Since our class is a cast heavy it might as well be worth it, I think a very reasonable talent would be to....

 

increase the critical bonus healing of your advanced medical prove, medical probe, and bacta infusion

[snaplemouton]

I think a very big issue is that emergency scan is 21 seconds long and it is a fairly weak heal it's self, operatives spam a move that heals for a little bit more. I think the cool down should be changed to 9 seconds. Since our class is a cast heavy it might as well be worth it, I think a very reasonable talent would be to....

 

increase the critical bonus healing of your advanced medical prove, medical probe, and bacta infusion

 

Bacta infusion heals far more then emergency medpac for scoundrel...

You clearly don't know a crap about healers... not only do we have a 15% surge increase on theses 3 abilities you mentionned, but that 15% surge increase is for ALL of our heals.

 

As for the OP, I only read the change you ask for combat medic as that's what I'm playing, and what you are asking is to make us god... Combat medic is in a good spot right now as an healer and is only lacking 2 things

1. The talent "Overclock" in the gunnery tree should replace our frontline medic talent.

2. Supercharge cells need to boost our alacrity by a certain amount.

Edited September 8, 2013 by snaplemouton

[PerinnAybara]

Are you saying the other healers don't have 15% surge talents as well?

[SpaniardInfinity]

Are you saying the other healers don't have 15% surge talents as well?

 

The surge talents affect different things.

 

Scoundrel has "Accomplshed Sawbones" which increases the surge on ONLY their HoTs, Kolto Pack, Kolto Cloud, and Slow-released Medpack.

 

Commando has "Potent Medicine": which increases the surge of ALL of our heals when it crits by 15%.

 

When I looked at the Sage tree (I don't play one so I may have missed it -- correct me if I am wrong) I did not see a surge bonus in the tree for their heals, so they may actually not have one.

 

Commandos do have an advantage over Scoundrels in the crit healing department on their casted heals so theoretically they should hit the hardest. (This is why they are also capable of higher burst, but with crit rating between 20% and 30% [depending on gear and skill tree talents], its easy to see why its hard to do these numbers reliably). Scoundrels always have the advantage on non-crits, since their casted heals have +12% healing done as long as they have 1 Upper Hand, while Commando casted heals vary between +6% (at no charges of Supercharge) and 11% (while Supercharged).

Edited September 8, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[PerinnAybara]

Sorcs have 6% increase to their bonus healing and a 8 % healing received talent.

[PerinnAybara]

The surge talents affect different things.

 

Scoundrel has "Accomplshed Sawbones" which increases the surge on ONLY their HoTs, Kolto Pack, Kolto Cloud, and Slow-released Medpack.

 

Commando has "Potent Medicine": which increases the surge of ALL of our heals when it crits by 15%.

 

When I looked at the Sage tree (I don't play one so I may have missed it -- correct me if I am wrong) I did not see a surge bonus in the tree for their heals, so they may actually not have one.

 

Commandos do have an advantage over Scoundrels in the crit healing department on their casted heals so theoretically they should hit the hardest. (This is why they are also capable of higher burst, but with crit rating between 20% and 30% [depending on gear and skill tree talents], its easy to see why its hard to do these numbers reliably). Scoundrels always have the advantage on non-crits, since their casted heals have +12% healing done as long as they have 1 Upper Hand, while Commando casted heals vary between +6% (at no charges of Supercharge) and 11% (while Supercharged).

 

Wait just read your comment on healing done bonus. Does that mean given the same stats, that for a heal of 100, it will heal for 112 if it doesn't crit and, let's say 20% surge =1% for companion buff, 112 * 1.71 = 191.52?

 

And a merc for a heal of 100, say with 30 stacks, will heal for 109 for a non crit, and 109* 1.86 = 202.74?

 

Meaning our crit heals heal for 202.74/191.52 1.05858395, or 5.8% more?

 

But their base heals heal for, 112/109 = 1.0275 Oor 2.75% more?

 

If we weight this properly, assuming say 30% crit chance on heals,

 

.3*191.52 + .7 * 112 = 135.856 and .7*109 + .3*202.74 = 137.122.

 

So 137.122/135.856 = 1.0093186 or 0.93% percent average healing overall?

 

Yeah our single target healing is better by 1%, not including when we use supercharge, or the fact our healing is worse after we use supercharged and it takes us much longer to gain resources.

 

Also how emergency medpack with the 30% surge from set bonuses is greater than our 18 second cd emergency scan.

 

The fact is, our single target healing isn't much better than operatives. The crit/alacrity/healing output nerfs just weakened our strengths to the point that it's negligible. Especially in pvp. Only reason they do well in 16 mans is because our kolto overload heals 16 people and our dots on our kolto residue both do not have an upper limit to how many people it heals. Which means we're a nich in a group of 16 people. A. K. A. the 1%. of pve'rs.

 

Well we're screwed.

 

Also I'm a 1%. I have an valor rank 100 merc with legacy level 50. Hence bioware won't cater to me.

Edited September 8, 2013 by PerinnAybara

[SpaniardInfinity]

Also I'm a 1%. I have an valor rank 100 merc with legacy level 50. Hence bioware won't cater to me.

 

Of course they don't cater to you, you aren't a Knight/Warrior or a Smuggler/Agent. If you want service, that's what you play.

Edited September 8, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[cashogy_reborn]

Bacta infusion heals far more then emergency medpac for scoundrel...

You clearly don't know a crap about healers... not only do we have a 15% surge increase on theses 3 abilities you mentionned, but that 15% surge increase is for ALL of our heals.

 

As for the OP, I only read the change you ask for combat medic as that's what I'm playing, and what you are asking is to make us god... Combat medic is in a good spot right now as an healer and is only lacking 2 things

1. The talent "Overclock" in the gunnery tree should replace our frontline medic talent.

2. Supercharge cells need to boost our alacrity by a certain amount.

 

Not for competitive PvP.

[Zoom_VI]

there are things id like to see changed/fixed/added to improve Commando.

*updated as of 7/30*

 

Trooper

- Explosive Round ammo cost has been reduced to 16, from 25

- Mortar Volley has had its radius increased to 8m (up from 5m)

- Adrenaline Rush has had its cooldown reduced to 120s (down from 180s)

- Increase the damage done by Plasma Cell by 100% (undo the 50% nerf from 2.0 that was 100% unnecessary)

No issues here, but I'm going to refer to your PC buff later

 

Commando

- Cyro Grenade has had its ranged increased to 30m (Commando only)

- Concussive Round is now a 1.5s cast

- Tech Override has had its cooldown reduced to 60s (down from 120s)

- Reserve Powercell has had its cooldown reduced to 60s (down from 120s)

- Plasma Grenade has had its ammo cost reduce to 16 (from 33)

Instant ranged Hardstun would be OP since nothing else has that, and I don't think pre 1.4 stuns with post 1.4 resolve can ever end well.

 

PG is more of a toy than anything, not sure where your going with it, every class has abilities not used in main rotation

Gunnery

- Special Munitions now lowers the cost of Grav Round by 2 ammo per point, up from 1

- Deadly Cannon -> add the following to the existing effect: "In addition, Demo Round has a 50/100% chance to crit on targets whose health is <30%"

- Cover Fire -> replace with the following effect: "Full Auto has a 50/100% chance to slow the target by 50% and prevent the use of high mobility actions" (full auto applies the electronet effect w/out the DoT, instead of a straight up slow)

Grav doesn't need to be cheaper, its never been a resource problem, the special munitions is just their to discourage hybrids. Having HiB free (like it used to) would both fix resource management and conversely decrease hammer shot useage

Demo crits go for almost 2-3k more than standard executes (even on execute crits), also BW would summarily nerf sustained dps, because we now have a execute (see BW arguments for how certain classes parse on dummies)

Assault

- Sweltering Heat -> increase slow to 50% (up from 30%)

- Parallactic Combat Stims -> change to following effect: "You have a 50/100% chance to recharge 8 ammo for every 1.5s when stunned, immobilzied, etc."

- Nightvision Scope ->"Increase stealth detection by 1/2, ranged and melee defense by 1/2, reduce the cooldown of Stealth Scan by 2.5/5s, and increase the radius of Stealth Scan by 2.5/5m

- Hyper Assault Rounds -> remove the ammo reduction of Explosive Round (now 16 by default); Triggers Plasma Cell on all targets hit by Explosive Round.

- Assault Trooper -> add Plasma Grenade to this effect (15/30% crit multiplier bonus)

 

The issue with buffing PG is that vanguards don't have it or any skill that is remotely similar to it.

Not sure what the Parallactic buff is going for, Ammo isn't much of a issue for assault even without parallactic, the buff would only help if you completely bottomed-out your ammo frequently.

 

- Degauss -> remove and prevent all movement impairing effects (roots/slows) for 6s

- Rapid Recharge -> add following effect: "Reserve Powercell has a 50/100% chance to reset the cooldown on Plasma Grenade and makes the next Plasma Grenade activate instantly

-Reflexive Battery -> add the following effect: Taking damage reduces the active cooldown of Hold the Line by 0.5/1s. Effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5s.

PG is covered above

Reflexive battery - Not sure how this would pan out, but HtL is already on a very short CD for it potentcy, buffing its uptime further would make it nearly impossible for any melee to stay in range of assault for more than a gcd or two. Lets not go overboard

 

- Assault Plastique -> replace with the following: "Throws a moldable plastic explosive that sticks to the target and detonates after several seconds, exploding for xxx-xxx kinetic damage (high damage, like before 2.0). Standard and weak enemies enter a state of panic when the explosive attaches and are knocked down when it detonates. After it detonates, the target is demoralized and unable to benefit from the effects of Guard for 6s.

You already know what I think of straight kinetic TD, but the latter bit is like so insanely OP. For starters that means with just one assault a arena team could have the enemies' healer unguarded for 6/15 seconds or 40% of the time. But why stop with one when you could take two to and have 80% uptime on guard immunity.

 

There also the issue with your previous 100% buff to plasma cell. The pre-2.0 PC dot was already very very potent, with your new 100% buff PC would be the hardest hitting dot by a significant margin, plus you just stacked it with more burst. Half of your changes would make assault OP beyond what marauders can dream of. I haven't done any hard math but my guess is PC would crit for over 2k with that change plus all of the 5k HiB and 7k TD the burst would be insane.

 

With the HtL uptime buff and the degueass buff assault is now the best kiting class in that it would almost never be vulnerable to slows/roots, it now has the hardest hitting dot, and it carries both Electro-net and guard immunity, meaning it can not only shutdown a healer, but guarantee their death. The high burst with heavy hitting dots would make it unrivaled in dps pressure.

 

Assualt needs a buff, but this is like insane.

 

One thing I would like to see is for full auto to have a 100% chance to proc PC dot, currently assault mandos are too dependent on RNG for keeping PC dot up, it would also mirror the vanguards talent.

 

Don't have enough experience to comment on your combat medic section

Edited September 9, 2013 by Zoom_VI

[cashogy_reborn]

This was 100% brainstormed from myself and a few other members of the community. Its all more than we would ever get, but I dont think any of it would be overpowered when you consider that the devs have recently said that Rage Marauder was working completely as intended. And we are *way* behind that.

 

Im not gonna go point for point, but one thing stood out: Plasma Grenade can be buffed b/c while PT/VG doesnt have it, they do have something we do not: +15% crit chance every 2 minutes. Not buffing a skill simply b/c the mirror spec doesnt have it is not much of a reason.

[Zoom_VI]

This was 100% brainstormed from myself and a few other members of the community. Its all more than we would ever get, but I dont think any of it would be overpowered when you consider that the devs have recently said that Rage Marauder was working completely as intended. And we are *way* behind that.

Personally I think the devs seriously don't comprehend Rage pvp-wise because on paper it really isn't that scary looking.

Anyway your Assualt plastique change still doesn't help the fact that's it would still be underpowered in PvE, and I would love to be able to run my commando in 36 assault in raids just to get away from gunnery for once.

 

Im not gonna go point for point, but one thing stood out: Plasma Grenade can be buffed b/c while PT/VG doesnt have it, they do have something we do not: +15% crit chance every 2 minutes. Not buffing a skill simply b/c the mirror spec doesnt have it is not much of a reason.

Right but also remember that commandoes have a higher base weapon damage over vanguards too. It would also depend a lot on how often PG would be used in the revised assault rotation as to whether it balances with BF.

 

There would also be some issues with the rotation itself, as with the current setup any time spent casting PG (even with your reduced cast) is time not spent getting HiB proc, or refreshing the more important dots.

 

Also please Mr. rep give mandos a guaranteed way to proc PC dot outside of ER. Keeping PC dot up on target is a nightmare as a mando in PvE where optimal dps requires PC dot to always be on target. (I'm willing to bet the reason Dev's think assault mando's dps is fine, is that their models probably assume PC is always on target like with vanguards, in practice this is very hard to do without a reliable way to proc it. *cough* Full Auto *cough*)

Edited September 9, 2013 by Zoom_VI

[ArchangelLBC]

Grav doesn't need to be cheaper, its never been a resource problem, the special munitions is just their to discourage hybrids. Having HiB free (like it used to) would both fix resource management and conversely decrease hammer shot useage

 

Actually, the change to grav round was in lieu of returning HiB to be free. The lower energy cost (3 per cast) would cumulatively help a great deal towards ammo management overall.