Suggested balance changes

[Aliensorigin]

IMO changing the instant medical probe to an uninterruptible cast after the use of AMP would be a little more balancing, having 2 instant 8k heals would be a little OP IMO with conjunction with our tech override, besides if we are possibly going to have the reduced CD on bacta infusion then having the 2 instant MP with TO would be far OP! But that just what I think, last thing we want is a smash jugg coming in here and asking it to be nerfed, and because bioware actually listens to them it would probs be nerfed and allot harder then it already is >.>

[SpaniardInfinity]

IMO changing the instant medical probe to an uninterruptible cast after the use of AMP would be a little more balancing, having 2 instant 8k heals would be a little OP IMO with conjunction with our tech override, besides if we are possibly going to have the reduced CD on bacta infusion then having the 2 instant MP with TO would be far OP! But that just what I think, last thing we want is a smash jugg coming in here and asking it to be nerfed, and because bioware actually listens to them it would probs be nerfed and allot harder then it already is >.>

 

It would be a little more balanced for PVP, but it also would have no benefit for PVE whatsoever. The Bacta Infusion is more "economical" because it solves multiple problems at once. It helps ammo management (less underhealing puts less stress on ammo, Bacta Infusion costs nothing so having it available more often also makes it easier to manage), it helps output by bringing our burst off a dreadfully long ~20 second cooldown (which I think is the longest cooldown on a heal in the game, unless Salvation has a longer one), and improves the class universally rather than only one part of the game. The interrupt immunity does nothing for PVE, and whether or not we like it, the majority of this games content is PVE so there's no point in pretending that it isn't taken into account by the developers.

 

Furthermore, Combat Medics suffer most of the same problems in PVE (ammo management/burst healing availability/group healing), and those problems become big enough to drive a walker through when you're looking at 16-man operations (I love Kolto Bomb to death, I really do, but there is no heal that is more useless at healing a group that Kolto Bomb when thrown on 5 or more people at a boss' feet). Allowing more frequent Bacta Infusions will indirectly improve group healing, while also reinforcing the class' single-target healing strength.

 

And unless I read Cash's OP wrong (I really shouldn't be reading the forums after checking email and before bed at 3am), I think the 2 charges of Tech Override is exclusive to Gunnery Commandos. Combat Medics would have a shorter cooldown, but can still only get one charge in the same way they do.

Edited July 30, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[Gyronamics]

Actually Kolto Bomb and Concussion Charge heal become more useful at raid healing as raid size increases.

 

Kolto Bomb has no limit on residue and neither does Concussion Charge.

 

Main downside is you physically need to be on the spot to use Concussion Charge so either in the melee scrum or the ranged party camp.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Gyronamics

[SpaniardInfinity]

Actually Kolto Bomb and Concussion Charge heal become more useful at raid healing as raid size increases.

 

Kolto Bomb has no limit on residue and neither does Concussion Charge.

 

Main downside is you physically need to be on the spot to use Concussion Charge so either in the melee scrum or the ranged party camp.

 

My objection with them is like this: if you have let's say 8 people grouped up attacking a boss in a 16M op, if you throw Kolto Bomb at them, four get hit with the up-front heal and then the rest get the HoT. The HoT may have no limit, but it really isn't that impressive for anything more than spreading Kolto Residue/Charged Barrier. In a smaller group, say an 8M, you'll probably only have 4 people grouped up, which allows the up-front heal to be relevant and the HoT is more effective. Basically, its the difference between healing 4 people for (crits only) 6-7k and the rest for 1-2k in a 16M, while healing everyone for 6-7k in a 8M. Yes, you're doing more healing in the 16M, but its what I would consider "underhealing" since the players who got 1-2k will still need more healing.

 

Concussive Charge has a similar issue, but its more of an afterthought to me because Kolto Bomb is going to be used every 6 seconds, whereas Concussive Charge will only be used every 30 seconds IF you happen to be in melee range of the people you need to heal.

Edited July 30, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[Aliensorigin]

It would be a little more balanced for PVP, but it also would have no benefit for PVE whatsoever. The Bacta Infusion is more "economical" because it solves multiple problems at once. It helps ammo management (less underhealing puts less stress on ammo, Bacta Infusion costs nothing so having it available more often also makes it easier to manage), it helps output by bringing our burst off a dreadfully long ~20 second cooldown (which I think is the longest cooldown on a heal in the game, unless Salvation has a longer one), and improves the class universally rather than only one part of the game. The interrupt immunity does nothing for PVE, and whether or not we like it, the majority of this games content is PVE so there's no point in pretending that it isn't taken into account by the developers.

 

Furthermore, Combat Medics suffer most of the same problems in PVE (ammo management/burst healing availability/group healing), and those problems become big enough to drive a walker through when you're looking at 16-man operations (I love Kolto Bomb to death, I really do, but there is no heal that is more useless at healing a group that Kolto Bomb when thrown on 5 or more people at a boss' feet). Allowing more frequent Bacta Infusions will indirectly improve group healing, while also reinforcing the class' single-target healing strength.

 

And unless I read Cash's OP wrong (I really shouldn't be reading the forums after checking email and before bed at 3am), I think the 2 charges of Tech Override is exclusive to Gunnery Commandos. Combat Medics would have a shorter cooldown, but can still only get one charge in the same way they do.

 

Yea I was referring to if the buff got added you would be able to get 2 instant MP in a row (1 from proc and 1 from tech override) but I see how you might have misunderstood what I said =P

[cashogy_reborn]

IMO changing the instant medical probe to an uninterruptible cast after the use of AMP would be a little more balancing, having 2 instant 8k heals would be a little OP IMO with conjunction with our tech override, besides if we are possibly going to have the reduced CD on bacta infusion then having the 2 instant MP with TO would be far OP! But that just what I think, last thing we want is a smash jugg coming in here and asking it to be nerfed, and because bioware actually listens to them it would probs be nerfed and allot harder then it already is >.>

 

I meant to add that change, I think we discussed it a page or two back. Guess I just forgot to add it

 

And Aux is correct, I am only suggesting the base cooldown of TO be lowered; Gunnery would be the only spec that is able to get a second charge (and talent it down to 30s, making an a majorly important part of our PvP effectiveness).

Edited July 31, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

[ArchangelLBC]

Special Munitions now lowers the cost of Grav Round by 2 ammo per point, up from 1

 

Put it in =P

 

/5char

[cashogy_reborn]

/5char

 

Done

[ArchangelLBC]

Thank you sir!

 

/bow

[Aliensorigin]

Ok so this might be WAY over the top but imma suggest another idea (that will also benifit pve... Maybe) ok so this:

 

<instead name here> causes a area scan to Identify all allies within 15 or 30 metres of the commando and a each player identified will recieve truma probe with the affects of the normal truma probe, 1.5 cast time, 13 second (or more but just made it 13 because the TP has 13 charges), cost 16 -25 ammo.

 

Or

 

<insert name here> casts a probe on an allie and the probe emits an area scan of either 15 or 30 metres around the friendly target and all allies spotted in he area scan will recieve TP with normal TP effects, cast time 1.5 seconds, cooldown 13seconds (or more), cost 16 or 25 ammo.

So basically the same as the first one just can be out on you or an allie.

 

If its even worth it you might wanna change it a little to make it a bit more balanced

[GNWP]

My criticism.

 

there are things id like to see changed/fixed/added to improve Commando.

*updated as of 7/30*

 

Trooper

- Explosive Round ammo cost has been reduced to 16, from 25

- Mortar Volley has had its radius increased to 8m (up from 5m)

- Adrenaline Rush has had its cooldown reduced to 120s (down from 180s)

- Increase the damage done by Plasma Cell by 100% (undo the 50% nerf from 2.0 that was 100% unnecessary)

 

Commando

- Cyro Grenade has had its ranged increased to 30m (Commando only) Don't agree.

- Concussive Round is now a 1.5s castAgree.

- Tech Override has had its cooldown reduced to 60s (down from 120s) Almost agree. But I would reduce it to 90 seconds.

- Reserve Powercell has had its cooldown reduced to 60s (down from 120s) Too powerfull. If reduce, but only to 90 seconds.

- Plasma Grenade has had its ammo cost reduce to 16 (from 33) Don't agree.

Combat Medic

- Field Training -> changed to the following: "Increases ranged/tech critical chance by 2/4/6%"

- Supercharge cells -> Now restores 16 energy cells (up from 8) Completely agree!

- Field Medicine -> add following effect: "Healing an ally with Hammershot now has a 100% chance to heal you for 25/50% of your bonus healing and recharge 1/2 energy cells" Too brainless mechanic IMO.

- Field Triage -> add following effect: "Advanced Medical Probe has a 33/66/100% chance to make the next Medical Probe immune to interrupts. This effect cannot occur more than once every 12s" "Please CC me!" talent. Too faceroll.

- Treated Wound Dressings -> add following effect: "Emergency Medical Probe has a 50/100% chance to activate instantly What exactly "Emergency Medical Probe" is?

- Med Zone -> add following effect: "In addition, critical results with healing effects reduce the active cooldown of Reactive Shield by 3s. This effect cannot occur more than once every 6s" Completely agree!

- Armor Screen -> change to following effect: "Preventative Medicine now also increases damage reduction by 5% while active"It's actully a talent that at least Sage have too, so they would never touch it probably.

- *Swap Probe Medic and Frontline Medic talent box positions*

- Probe Medic -> change to the following effect: "Increases the healing done by Trauma Probe by 5/10/15 percent, increases its upper limit by 1/2/3, and reduces its rate limit by .33/.67/1.00 seconds. In addition, healing from Trauma Probe has a 33/67/100 percent chance to grant Rapid Bacta Deployment, which reduces the cooldown of your next Bacta Infusion by 100%. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds.

- Frontline Medic -> change to the following effect: "Increases the number of Trauma Probes that can be deployed at one time by 1/2. Also increases the maximum stack limit of Rapid Bacta Deployment by 1/2."

- Bacta Infusion -> change to following effect: "Heals a friendly target for <current weapon>. Using Bacta Infusion does not require Rapid Bacta Deployment, but will consume 1 stack whenever possible. When all stacks of Rapid Bacta Deployment are consumed, this ability goes on cooldown for 21 seconds" Didn't actually get whole "Emergency Bacta Deployment" idea. Elaborate.

 

 

Btw, here's my own list of buffs specifcly for Combat Medic spec.

I've posted it in the General Discussion forums, but it seems that to attract attention, at least of Community managers, I had to name my Topic something like "Cartel Market MAJOR ISSUE".

• Remove cooldown from Advanced Medical Probe.
  
• Make Advanced Medical Probe to be instant cast during Supercharge Cell.
  
• Make Bacta Infusion off GCD during Supercharge Cell.
  
• Make Combat Support Cell stacking faster. Maybe reduce the number of stacks and make an effect stronger.
  
• Some buffs to Reactive Shield are also required. Maybe give it immunity to roots, snares and knockback/pulls during first 3-6 seconds.
  

Edited August 5, 2013 by GNWP

[SpaniardInfinity]

Please elaborate [on Bacta Infusion]

 

Rapid Bacta Deployment would work like this: if you have 3 points in Probe Medic (similar to Field Triage), there is a 100% chance that healing from your Trauma Probe grants one proc of Rapid Bacta Deployment. This proc lowers the cooldown of your next Bacta Infusion by 100% (in the same way that Supercharge Cells lowers the cooldown of AMP by 100% for 10 seconds). This proc can only be generated once every 10 seconds. Bacta Infusion may be used without the proc (such as if you have no Trauma Probes out), but will always consume 1 proc whenever there is one available. When there are no procs left, Bacta Infusion goes on cooldown for 21 seconds (18 with set bonus). This is a hard cooldown and future Rapid Bacta Deployment procs will NOT end this hard cooldown early. You may generate new procs during this cooldown.

 

By default, you may only have 1 proc of Rapid Bacta Deployment. In order to get more, you must spec into Frontline Medic which will raise the limit by 1 or 2 (allowing you to have a maximum of 3 procs at a time).

[cashogy_reborn]

What exactly "Emergency Medical Probe" is?

 

Im sorry, but that just totally undermines all of your credibility. Learn the class before you want to contribute to the discussion.

Edited August 6, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

[ArchangelLBC]

My criticism.

 

 

 

 

Btw, here's my own list of buffs specifcly for Combat Medic spec.

I've posted it in the General Discussion forums, but it seems that to attract attention, at least of Community managers, I had to name my Topic something like "Cartel Market MAJOR ISSUE".

 

Simply saying "Don't agree" or "partially agree, but only lower to 90s instead of 60s" is absolutely horrid criticism. What is it about a 16 ammo Plasma Grenade that you take issue with? What about one free skill per minute makes it overpowered?

 

I'd expect better criticisms from the devs and they're objectively horrible.

[GNWP]

Rapid Bacta Deployment would work like this: if you have 3 points in Probe Medic (similar to Field Triage), there is a 100% chance that healing from your Trauma Probe grants one proc of Rapid Bacta Deployment. This proc lowers the cooldown of your next Bacta Infusion by 100% (in the same way that Supercharge Cells lowers the cooldown of AMP by 100% for 10 seconds). This proc can only be generated once every 10 seconds. Bacta Infusion may be used without the proc (such as if you have no Trauma Probes out), but will always consume 1 proc whenever there is one available. When there are no procs left, Bacta Infusion goes on cooldown for 21 seconds (18 with set bonus). This is a hard cooldown and future Rapid Bacta Deployment procs will NOT end this hard cooldown early. You may generate new procs during this cooldown.

 

By default, you may only have 1 proc of Rapid Bacta Deployment. In order to get more, you must spec into Frontline Medic which will raise the limit by 1 or 2 (allowing you to have a maximum of 3 procs at a time).

 

Thak you.

 

Im sorry, but that just totally undermines all of your credibility. Learn the class before you want to contribute to the discussion.

 

Ah, this Emergency Medical Probe!

I used it just a single time in a warzone, so didn't even recognize the name.

You, sir, extremely arrogant, by the way.

 

Simply saying "Don't agree" or "partially agree, but only lower to 90s instead of 60s" is absolutely horrid criticism. What is it about a 16 ammo Plasma Grenade that you take issue with? What about one free skill per minute makes it overpowered?

 

I'd expect better criticisms from the devs and they're objectively horrible.

 

Don't criticize my criticism!

Edited August 6, 2013 by GNWP

[oaceen]

Yeah, I played with and against Aux a lot, and he was easily one of the best commando medics from Jedi Covenant. Aux saying for 1 buff at a time for commandos has a lot of weight, imo.

 

i think you're missing the point of this thread.

 

it's a laundry list of suggested changes because the devs do in fact read these forums and draw inspiration from us, even if they don't often post and interact with us.

 

but it's not a 'hey devs, fix ALL of this or we're all unsubbing!', but, suppose we only listed one change as per your suggestion.

they decide to go with it or not go with it, but we will basically never know until it's actually implemented, and that would take months because they don't do class balance updates every week or so, they do it every few months.

 

so we create a long list of possible things we'd like to see. the devs can take a look at the list as a whole, decide what seems reasonable, and go from there. they could of course still decide against everything on the list, but posting one idea at a time would be absolutely silly, because that would take years to go through the entire list, and the only way we'd know for sure of their response is if we saw the idea actually implemented.

[ArchangelLBC]

i think you're missing the point of this thread.

 

it's a laundry list of suggested changes because the devs do in fact read these forums and draw inspiration from us, even if they don't often post and interact with us.

 

I'm not sure how true that is, based on Kitru's experience at a meet and greet. More importantly, beyond a bug report, I don't know that I recall them ever implementing a change suggested on these class forums. The only change I explicitly remember them making after commando/merc demands were the combat rez (made on other forums), the interrupt (made on other forums), and Grav round applying its full effect with one cast (after Perrin spammed a comparison with shatter shot on every forum topic he could find relating to commandos on both the PTS and PVP forums).

 

Half the reason for class reps in my opinion is because of how badly they've done keeping up with concerns on the class forums.

[PerinnAybara]

I'm not sure how true that is, based on Kitru's experience at a meet and greet. More importantly, beyond a bug report, I don't know that I recall them ever implementing a change suggested on these class forums. The only change I explicitly remember them making after commando/merc demands were the combat rez (made on other forums), the interrupt (made on other forums), and Grav round applying its full effect with one cast (after Perrin spammed a comparison with shatter shot on every forum topic he could find relating to commandos on both the PTS and PVP forums).

 

Half the reason for class reps in my opinion is because of how badly they've done keeping up with concerns on the class forums.

 

I didn't do nothing, hell I didn't even get in trouble for that.

Edited August 6, 2013 by PerinnAybara

[ArchangelLBC]

I didn't do nothing, hell I didn't even get in trouble for that.

 

"That" being that nothing you didn't do? =P

[oaceen]

I'm not sure how true that is, based on Kitru's experience at a meet and greet.

 

i've seen a few changes that were suggested through the class forums.

 

the main thing i can think of for commandos was hold the line being made for all troopers. i recall the discussion starting maybe over a year ago now, so it did take quite a long time before they added it in.

 

of course, that doesn't mean that correlation = causation, but there have been a few other minor tweaks here and there that i've seen, so i have to suspect at least that they stop in every now and then.

 

also, i'm not sure what to believe about that story. he seemed more annoyed that they didn't instantly know who he was.

[ArchangelLBC]

i've seen a few changes that were suggested through the class forums.

 

the main thing i can think of for commandos was hold the line being made for all troopers. i recall the discussion starting maybe over a year ago now, so it did take quite a long time before they added it in.

 

of course, that doesn't mean that correlation = causation, but there have been a few other minor tweaks here and there that i've seen, so i have to suspect at least that they stop in every now and then.

 

also, i'm not sure what to believe about that story. he seemed more annoyed that they didn't instantly know who he was.

 

I was more noticing the anecdote that Eric and Amber weren't aware of the shadow spikiness discussion. And on Hold the Line, that's another change that I personally flew the flag for a TON on the PVP forums, so again even as far as correlation that's as much a correlation with the PVP forums as the commando forums. I'm not saying they don't take suggestions from the forums in general regardless of their actual overt interaction. I just don't know that they're reading a lot of the CLASS forums. I mean the commando/merc thread in the commando forums went into the hundreds of pages. Class forums just don't get that kind of traffic.

Edited August 6, 2013 by ArchangelLBC

[cashogy_reborn]

Ah, this Emergency Medical Probe!

I used it just a single time in a warzone, so didn't even recognize the name.

You, sir, extremely arrogant, by the way.

 

You mistake arrogance for confidence.

 

And how dare I expect community members to be able to demonstrate they actually know what they are talking about when making suggestions/criticisms.....

[oaceen]

I was more noticing the anecdote that Eric and Amber weren't aware of the shadow spikiness discussion. And on Hold the Line, that's another change that I personally flew the flag for a TON on the PVP forums, so again even as far as correlation that's as much a correlation with the PVP forums as the commando forums. I'm not saying they don't take suggestions from the forums in general regardless of their actual overt interaction. I just don't know that they're reading a lot of the CLASS forums. I mean the commando/merc thread in the commando forums went into the hundreds of pages. Class forums just don't get that kind of traffic.

 

fair enough, i don't post in the PVP forums realy.

 

my main point though, was just because there's a list of something, it doesn't mean we want it ALL and we want it NOW

Edited August 7, 2013 by oaceen

[ArchangelLBC]

Fair enough. Though tbh I kinda do want it all, and sooner rather than later. I'm just selfish like that though

[oaceen]

Fair enough. Though tbh I kinda do want it all, and sooner rather than later. I'm just selfish like that though

 

it would be nice

.......until we get nerfed

 

 

anyway, so with the sniper questions/answers in mind, i was wondering if it would be too outlandish to propose a compromise with lowering tech override's cooldown and... not lowering it.

 

basically, limit the ability that can be used. this would be a problem in and of itself if it were just 'only on charged bolts' or something, but perhaps tie the ability to what cell you're in.

 

plasma cell: charged bolts

armor piercing cell: grav round

combat support cell: medical probe

i don't feel that adv medical probe is appropriate there because it normally has a cooldown.

it seems to me that it should be a skill that can be used immediately.

 

 

anyway, so along with that, there's already a talent for gunnery to add an extra charge and lower the cooldown. this could be edited to reduce it from 1m to 45s

 

a talent could be added to combat medic (maybe a replacement for frontline medic?) that additionally reduces the cost or additionally could include adv medical probe as well. i feel AMP could fit into this skill, but maybe not as a basline (if we were to pick one)

 

i don't feel that it's a necessary skill for assault specialist, but if a talent were added, perhaps it could include plasma grenade or give charged bolts a 100% chance to trigger plasma cell (of course, i will still like this as an actual talent for AS)

 

 

 

i also had an idea to make AP more desirable all around and overcome a big problem with assault:

have the blast sunder a target's armor. it doesn't have to be 45s, maybe 18s or something, so that AP used (mostly) on cooldown will apply the armor debuff for everyone. it additionally gives a reason to use it when there's less than 12s left until the target is dead.

it will probably be a little unintuitive though, waiting 3s to apply an armor debuff, but i think we can all agree AS desperately needs and AP needs something to make it worth taking.