MillionsKNives Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Well, tbh, this would be my preference too, but it seems that the devs are forcing it on us, and some of the people in the pve servers actually like it. (why? because I suspect they're bored and sadistic lol) But anyhow... How are you being forced? Is the game moving your character into the PVP zone without your input? Is there a BioWare employee in your house with a gun telling you to go into the PVP zone? You can't "accidentally" enter it either. When you get anywhere near it it will begin warning you that you are entering a PVP zone and are about to be flagged in BIG RED LETTERS. The whining is about the fact people are trying to accomplish something and want to be left alone to accomplish it but the PvP people are constantly killing them making it not possible to accomplish said task regardless of it working as designed and "you're in the area suck it up" or whatever you wanna say to justify it people are pissed off there are players who limit their ability to accomplish tasks because those PvP people are jerks If you are in the PVP zone then you can't expect to be left alone, by entering you have consented to PVP. If you are flagged outside the PVP zone then either expect the possibility of being killed or wait out the timer in a safe zone. Exploits of the flagging system would be a different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyderwraith Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 If you are in the PVP zone then you can't expect to be left alone, by entering you have consented to PVP. If you are flagged outside the PVP zone then either expect the possibility of being killed or wait out the timer in a safe zone. Exploits of the flagging system would be a different matter. My response was in answer to the previous poster not understanding the whining. It was regardless of the fact "If you are in a pvp zone expect it" fine i expect it whatever I adapt to the fact that people will **** my **** up if i enter the pvp zone and have now built up enough rep tokens that i can skip the pvp missions entirely, I was just voicing the reason why people are "whining" as he had asked. That then brings me to a second reason people are complaining is that due to the gankers and the people who justify it by saying that is the way it was designed expect it, then now one must adapt in such a way that you potentially miss out on reputation and missions because others are physically stopping you from completing them. (and whats more is that people are likley pissed off that the game has designed a situation wherein now people are being limited and stopped because others are sadistic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 (edited) exactly Spyderwraith, that's how i see it... that's why i suggested a way to completely disable the PvP Flag altogether on PvE servers, so we can go bout our business without the harassment of ppl that get their jollies off of keeping others from achieving their goal... to me it's simple you want Co-Op play go PvE server, you want competitive go PvP server, but don't force the Co-op players into competition when they don't want it, allow us the option of completely disabling flagging... Edited July 29, 2013 by Elly_Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 The whining is about the fact people are trying to accomplish something and want to be left alone to accomplish it but the PvP people are constantly killing them making it not possible to accomplish said task regardless of it working as designed and "you're in the area suck it up" or whatever you wanna say to justify it people are pissed off there are players who limit their ability to accomplish tasks because those PvP people are jerks Then don't get flagged for PvP. It is that freaking simple. If you aren't flagged, you can't be bothered. How hard is that? You don't need the PvP area quests to get reputation. I got Legend just fine, only doing the PvP stuff when my guild mates needed a healer. Stay out of that area, grind out the PvE quests and have fun. It is asinine to expect to be left alone in a PvP area regardless of the server types. Just as PvP servers aren't just about PvP, PvE servers aren't just about PvE. Those "PvP jerks" are only attacking you because you are flagged for PvP. If you don't like that then YOU are the jerk for flagging yourself and then whining about PvP happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 exactly Spyderwraith, that's how i see it... that's why i suggested a way to completely disable the PvP Flag altogether on PvE servers, so we can go bout our business without the harassment of ppl that get their jollies off of keeping others from achieving their goal... to me it's simple you want Co-Op play go PvE server, you want competitive go PvP server, but don't force the Co-op players into competition when they don't want it, allow us the option of completely disabling flagging... Disabling the PvP flag completely misses the point of PvP areas and PvP quests. The flag is already disabled AS LONG AS YOU STAY OUT OF THE PVP AREA. It is YOU who need to realize that it is YOUR fault for getting flagged and consenting to PvP. No one forces you into that area, you go knowing full well that you will be flagged and that there are other players who will be there to attack flagged players. You don't need those 2 quests to "achieve your goal", but if you do them then you are consenting to PvP the moment you step into the PvP zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirMannii Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Uhm, what is a PvP-flag? /Tomb of Freedon Nadd-player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Disabling the PvP flag completely misses the point of PvP areas and PvP quests. The flag is already disabled AS LONG AS YOU STAY OUT OF THE PVP AREA. It is YOU who need to realize that it is YOUR fault for getting flagged and consenting to PvP. No one forces you into that area, you go knowing full well that you will be flagged and that there are other players who will be there to attack flagged players. You don't need those 2 quests to "achieve your goal", but if you do them then you are consenting to PvP the moment you step into the PvP zone. This lol! Why do PvEers think they should be allowed to bypass PvP content for the PvP mission reward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtkram Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 the disconnect here is kind of interesting. i have been flagged for pvp in the pve area of gree several times. this is not from me entering the pvp area. i am aware of the fact that if i enter the pvp area i will be flagged for pvp and it will take at least 5 minutes to turn the flag off. i am specifically referring to entering the pve side without a pvp flag. there is no question that i start the pve missions with my pvp flag turned off. then, at some point, in the pve area, i become flagged for pvp. this is not because i knowingly click a pvp flag or right click my portrait or anything else that is under my control. i have no idea what action it is that i'm doing to get the pvp flag. there is no gray area there. i have been flagged for pvp without my consent, without anything i am aware of doing. maybe for other people it is not possible to be flagged for pvp without their express consent. on my account, i can be flagged pvp without knowing why, and often without even knowing when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyderwraith Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 SNIP. I answered your question as to whats all the whining about. Simple as that. I sense some hostility in you that I don't understand. aside from the fact that in massive bold letters you've emphasized not to go into the PvP zones which is irrelevant to the fact that the overall reason people are whining is the fact that people are *********s simply because they feel the need to limit the ability of others to accomplish tasks and missions the game designed regardless of the fact it is in a zone the game also designed to complement the ability to be a complete douche. and the fact that I can achieve my goal without said PvP quests is again irrelevant to the fact there exists in this game a specific set of circumstances that complement and allow for complete douchebaggery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 the disconnect here is kind of interesting. i have been flagged for pvp in the pve area of gree several times. this is not from me entering the pvp area. i am aware of the fact that if i enter the pvp area i will be flagged for pvp and it will take at least 5 minutes to turn the flag off. i am specifically referring to entering the pve side without a pvp flag. there is no question that i start the pve missions with my pvp flag turned off. then, at some point, in the pve area, i become flagged for pvp. this is not because i knowingly click a pvp flag or right click my portrait or anything else that is under my control. i have no idea what action it is that i'm doing to get the pvp flag. there is no gray area there. i have been flagged for pvp without my consent, without anything i am aware of doing. maybe for other people it is not possible to be flagged for pvp without their express consent. on my account, i can be flagged pvp without knowing why, and often without even knowing when. Healing or attacking someone who is flagged will flag you. Apparently there are people who have found ways to exploit this to intentionally get someone flagged. Here's my post in the suggestion forum about ways this can be modified, hopefully for the better. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=665200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Just don't get flagged. DUH! I ran several toons around the PVE a couple times this week so far. Watched both PUB and IMP run around like packs of wild dogs looking for something to kill. Was kinda sad actually to watch especially when that pack starts to GANK same faction for lack of finding respective "bad guys" from the other faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Just don't get flagged. DUH! I ran several toons around the PVE a couple times this week so far. Watched both PUB and IMP run around like packs of wild dogs looking for something to kill. Was kinda sad actually to watch especially when that pack starts to GANK same faction for lack of finding respective "bad guys" from the other faction. Same faction can't be attacked outside the pvp ffa area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtkram Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Healing or attacking someone who is flagged will flag you. Apparently there are people who have found ways to exploit this to intentionally get someone flagged. Here's my post in the suggestion forum about ways this can be modified, hopefully for the better. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=665200 ya, i'm pretty sure i've seen groups of people step into the heroic area intending to get hit with an aoe attack to flag other people. i think we can agree then, everyone who posted in this thread saying 'don't get flagged' or 'your supposed to pvp in the pvp area' or anything like that has no idea what they're talking about. i've still done my best to not use aoe attacks when i see anyone flagged nearby, and get flagged anyway. not sure how. maybe i hit a stealthed person? you would think they would unstealth at that point and i would notice, but whatever. maybe they can have a pop-up that says 'did you intend to be flagged for pvp?' before you cause damage to the other person. for everyone who clicks 'no,' someone at bioware gets slapped upside the head for creating what appears to be a broken system. in before eric or amber come in here saying force-flagging is 'working as intended.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Same faction can't be attacked outside the pvp ffa area. I'm pretty sure if same faction are flagged in PVE area they are fair game. Could have sworn I saw it a couple times, but could have been maybe a Sniper instead of a Gunslinger icon. In fact your PVE relics don't work in the PVE area's as well. (Try to PROC a SA Relic and see). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 maybe they can have a pop-up that says 'did you intend to be flagged for pvp?' before you cause damage to the other person. The suggestion I outlined has a portion that is similar to this. I personally have not seen any of the exploits people on the forums have described. At least, not since they got rid of the original exploit of running into a non-flagged person's AOE. Apparently there's still some unintentional flagging possible related to companions, and i guess stealth and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I'm pretty sure if same faction are flagged in PVE area they are fair game. Could have sworn I saw it a couple times, but could have been maybe a Sniper instead of a Gunslinger icon. In fact your PVE relics don't work in the PVE area's as well. (Try to PROC a SA Relic and see). Yes, outside pvp area, same faction should go back to being green instead of red. Not sure how this behaves around the border between areas though. If you're in combat with same faction in pvp area, and you exit the pvp area, do you exit combat? I'm not sure. Yeah, they made the non-pvp relics and adrenals not work in the entire Gree area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtkram Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 The suggestion I outlined has a portion that is similar to this. I personally have not seen any of the exploits people on the forums have described. At least, not since they got rid of the original exploit of running into a non-flagged person's AOE. Apparently there's still some unintentional flagging possible related to companions, and i guess stealth and such. i think the solution you linked would help. mine has 2 added benefits. the pop-up would make the event that led to the flag more obvious, and slapping bioware staff for screwing up should be an adequate reprimand to encourage them to develop more appropriate systems in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 (edited) personally i'd love to walk through a battlefield or whatever, no other player able to impede my progress... look at all the fools fighting each-other, let them, i"m achieving my goal... anyway you can't use being a Sith as an excuse for same faction killing... it would have been totally counterproductive for say, Vader to walk through the halls of the Deathstar killing Stormtroopers while they tried to catch the rebels... the only time Sith kill each-other is for political gain or advancement of position... killing your own people in the field of battle is just plain stupid, may as well surrender... Edited July 29, 2013 by Elly_Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELRunninW Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Try to use a relic not usable in PvP areas anywhere in western Ice shelf on Ilum. Why is this event happening in PvP area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Yes, outside pvp area, same faction should go back to being green instead of red. Not sure how this behaves around the border between areas though. If you're in combat with same faction in pvp area, and you exit the pvp area, do you exit combat? I'm not sure. Yeah, they made the non-pvp relics and adrenals not work in the entire Gree area. Should I agree. I've had plenty of folks still flagged and show up to Xeno flagged. The minute I heal them I'm FLAGGED.. SO I make it a practice to just Quick Time it out after Xeno. I've no desire to get ganked so I just avoid it completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Try to use a relic not usable in PvP areas anywhere in western Ice shelf on Ilum. Why is this event happening in PvP area? Because the Gree are studying the battles between the factions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyderwraith Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Because the Gree are studying the battles between the factions. Then they should make a PvP WARZONE specifically for this event so they can study the fighting factions in a PVP WARZONE where people go because they want to pvp not in some area where it is possible to completely gank individuals who want nothing to do with PvP because they rolled on a PVE server Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELRunninW Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Because the Gree are studying the battles between the factions. As much as I understand that you were trying to be informative and helpful, the problem still remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Then they should make a PvP WARZONE specifically for this event so they can study the fighting factions in a PVP WARZONE where people go because they want to pvp not in some area where it is possible to completely gank individuals who want nothing to do with PvP because they rolled on a PVE server Ganking in PvE areas is not cool. (if "trick"-flagged by somewhat nefarious means.) Ganking in a clearly marked pvp area is fair game. All aspects of the game are available on all servers. The server types simply try to group like-minded individuals. I play on a RP-PVE server, because that's where some of my friends were going to roll their characters. Should I be forced to RP because of the server designation? The server types could possibly be more descriptive. Such as, "pvp flag always on" and "pvp flag optional". But, they are what they are, and pvp has always been around in MMORPGs as long as I've known, and should be expected to occur on occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epixxxx Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Personally, I don't mind it. I've got a level 51 I've done it with, and I've killed multiple 55's on my own through bolster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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