Propane Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 The Cartel Market isn't - the restrictions are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 With that logic, then paying a subscription fee is pay to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatile Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 With that logic, then paying a subscription fee is pay to win. Well, it does automagically allow you to wear Purple level gear mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilikaa Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Well, it does automagically allow you to wear Purple level gear mods. Still not even close to "pay to win", though. It just allows the free players to have access to gear/mods that subs have. They are not winning anything, they are just becoming equal gear wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPryde Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 The Cartel Market isn't - the restrictions are. Call me old fashioned, but anyone, who is to cheap to pay for lifting the basic restrictions doesn't deserve to win. You do not need a running subscription to be on par with the subs. You just need a single small purchase to have access to everything that the subs have AND you can pay for that with credits, if you pay attention to the market. If you call that pay to win, then I cannot help it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaceen Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 With that logic, then paying a subscription fee is pay to win. i believe that's what he's saying, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 With that logic every game that charges you to play is pay to win. So this is really a non-subject. I'd like to see game developers make games they can't charge you for...good luck with that. F2P is to let you see the game and level to a decent level. Then it's up to you to decide if you want to partake fully in the game or just partly. Of course they will charge you for that. Without that the game will end. If they didn't put restrictions on F2P there are 2 problems: Gold sellers will have much greater access to the game via free accounts and people would stop paying subs cause it wouldn't be worth it. Again the game will cease to exist. If you don't understand that.....<insert random comment about the OP not having or using his brain> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderKeeva Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 No, pay-to-win means if you pay, you win. The other players do not even have a chance of winning, until they pay as well. Then the playing field remains level until new gear is released, where everyone involved have to pay again. Suppose if they were to release fully optimized Kell Dragon and Conqueror armor sets on the Cartel Market for 10.000 Cartel Coins or instant level 55 characters with every companion at 10.000 affection. That would be pay-to-save time but it would not be truly pay-to-win because alternate methods exist to acquire those items in-game. A set of Conqueror armor bought on the CM would not be superior to a set of Conqueror armor bought with ranked comms. Selling those items in the CM would be destructive, certainly, a terrible idea that would drive many players away but it wouldn't be truly pay-to-win. Pay-to-win would be if they released armor sets with lvl90 mods that give you 80.000 HP and 5000 DPS/TPS/HPS.... So think about before you call stuff pay-to-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJurgens Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 This game isn't P2W. It's only Pay-for-Ship Armor Advancement, Pay-to-Fashion and Pay-to-Rep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoddessDaVida Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 People paid $60 for the game when it first came out. Those became the first batch of premium players after the relaunch. Buying a month of subscription or $5.00 or credits gets someone on par with far less investment. The basis for this "pay-to-win" is poppycock. We have f2p players in our guild that can run FPs and Heroics well, and have advanced themselves to high levels. I tried that and while I could clearly advance, it looked more like work than fun. For the little it costs me, I have lots of fun. So, to validate the truth of the OPs statement, someone will have to convince me of some restrictions that prevent them from playing alongside premium/sub players and winning. None that I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachenko_Yuri Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 The Cartel Market isn't - the restrictions are. Well, you expect for them ( or ANYONE ) to hand out their game on a silver plate for free? f2p gets you through the first planet because it's what it's meant to be, a T.R.I.A.L. But the boys have given you the opportunity to BUY STUFF FOR CREDITS to over-ride stuff such as the purple gear restriction, and also all the story on all 8 classes to level 50. And people still complain. Get lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbount Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 And again i hear this crap about "pay to win". OP, you don't know ANYTHING about games with P2W rules. P2W - its when gamedevs are FORCE you to buy stuffs from market. Not just fancy armor or toys, but stuffs that changes gameplay from "my God, how am i suppose to do that!" to normal level. So please - try not to start this crap again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamzaky Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 i think its a valid point. subscribers expect cartel market customers (people who pay more than regular customers) not to have any advantages over them, but they are fine with having advantages over f2p players (people who pay less than regular customers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDougherty Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Subscriptions are not pay to win, yes we get fewer restrictions (unless you own a collector edition were the last few restrictions are lifted (a pathetic shop and the VIP area)). But we are playing what the game actually should be, the free to play version is intended to tempt you to buy the game and get a subscription. This is not Pay to Win, and if you think it is, then you have my pity. If you can't understand why you have my pity, then figure it out, I'm not going to spell it out for you. Pay to Win, is were you can't complete the game without it, or were paying gives you an unfair advantage. All the restrictions can be lifted by the cartel market, or by buying off the GTN. If you want to play for free, go ahead, but don't complain that others aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPryde Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 i think its a valid point. subscribers expect cartel market customers (people who pay more than regular customers) not to have any advantages over them, but they are fine with having advantages over f2p players (people who pay less than regular customers). F2p players do not pay less, they pay nothing. And if someone pays nothing, my level of sympathy for them is exactly nothing. The ONLY restriction that got any direct gameplay effect is the restriction not to be able to use purple items. That one can be lifted with a single purchase of coins or a clever purchase on the Galactic market. Once again, if you are to cheap to buy this little advantage, then who cares? I got no sympathy for such people and I got no sympathy for people who advocate on their behalve that this would be in any way an unfair advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 If this game was indeed pay-2-win, then we would be able to get EVERYTHING via cartel coins or something, rendering crafting pointless and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedip_enguin Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Yet another person who doesn't know what pay2win is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockmks Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 i think its a valid point. subscribers expect cartel market customers (people who pay more than regular customers) not to have any advantages over them, but they are fine with having advantages over f2p players (people who pay less than regular customers). There is some very valid non status quo logic there The fun thing about rocking the starship sometimes is it may get people thinking.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 With that logic every game that charges you to play is pay to win. So this is really a non-subject. I'd like to see game developers make games they can't charge you for...good luck with that. F2P is to let you see the game and level to a decent level. Then it's up to you to decide if you want to partake fully in the game or just partly. Of course they will charge you for that. Without that the game will end. If they didn't put restrictions on F2P there are 2 problems: Gold sellers will have much greater access to the game via free accounts and people would stop paying subs cause it wouldn't be worth it. Again the game will cease to exist. If you don't understand that.....<insert random comment about the OP not having or using his brain> Actually, with that logic every game that cost anything to buy is pay-to-win... So unless you pirate everything, or you are only playing truely free games (like indie games that cost nothing, which are very rare) you are paying to win... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamzaky Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 F2p players do not pay less, they pay nothing. And if someone pays nothing, my level of sympathy for them is exactly nothing. The ONLY restriction that got any direct gameplay effect is the restriction not to be able to use purple items. That one can be lifted with a single purchase of coins or a clever purchase on the Galactic market. Once again, if you are to cheap to buy this little advantage, then who cares? I got no sympathy for such people and I got no sympathy for people who advocate on their behalve that this would be in any way an unfair advantage. nothing = 0, 0 < 15. so what do you think about people who pay more than you? do they deserve some game play advantages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPryde Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 nothing = 0, 0 < 15. so what do you think about people who pay more than you? do they deserve some game play advantages? No, they don't. Subscription is the cap, everything else is flavour. If you could indeed use more money to buy gameplay advantages, then you would have pay to win. If you argue, that buying the game is "pay to win", then you could argue, that Tennis is "P2W" as you cannot win without buying a tennis rack. And you do not even need to buy this game to be absolutely on par with people who spent 1000$ or more. The absolute only thing you ever need to buy is the item unlock to be allowed to use the top items. That's it. And that is not winning, it is playing on par. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 It's more like pay-to-enjoy. f2p TOR is barely playable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Not bad. 3 word subject, 7 word post, and you got 3+ pages of responses so far. 5/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDougherty Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 It's more like pay-to-enjoy. f2p TOR is barely playable. True, one crew skill, delays in posting to general chat, not being able to use matrixes and artifacts, no thanks I'll stick to the subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Not bad. 3 word subject, 7 word post, and you got 3+ pages of responses so far. 5/10 You can change your forum settings so you don't have to page quite so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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