Request for the developers

[Machine-Elf]

I know it's not very popular to act as a spokesman for any one group around here, but I have a thick skin and can handle the inevitable flaming that goes with it, so here goes:

 

There is a considerable portion of us players who see story as SWTOR's greatest asset, the thing that keeps us playing. I also understand that if one were to pick a single attribute to define BioWare's identity as a company, a distinguishing feature that would set it apart from its competitors, then that would be, again, its much-vaunted and supposedly single-minded focus on delivering top-class storytelling.

 

It is with this in mind that I ask you to consider the following: add a function to the game that allows players to experience the story content in continuity, the way they were intended to be delivered. I know many players, especially MMO veterans, do not like to have their "playstyles" intruded upon, but I'm sure I speak for many others besides me when expressing a distaste for the jumbled, incoherent, and overwhelming manner with which the current flood of quests are delivered to us.

 

A simple toggle would do it.

 

Thanks for listening.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[Pubsam]

You're asking to not have to do any side quests? I believe that option is already available.

[CrazyMcGee]

Yeah, I don't understand what you want. Just do the class quests, if that's what you want. Although I don't see how side quests intrude on your story, it's like e.g. I'm a Jedi on Tatooine and someone asks me to rescue their daughter from gangsters... that doesn't violate the story for me. I'm a Jedi, if you see me running around, of course you'd ask me to help. And even the quest gives you the option to refuse it. So it'd just be a conversation you had.

 

So sorry if I'm missing your point, but what is it you don't like?

 

Also, I gotta say IMHO: "the jumbled, incoherent, and overwhelming manner with which the current flood of quests are delivered to us." I think this is really unfair. The breadcrumbing works really well, you find the areas you need, it's clearly signposted on the map, the story is consistent across all aspects of the game. I think it's only PVP that sits outside the story really (the opening speil isn't really convincing as part of your story), but flashpoints and operations are pretty reasonably fitted in, especially FPs if you do them in order at the appropriate time, they have their own consistent story (e.g. Boarding Party and Foundry are literally the same exact story).

 

So yeah, not sure what your problem is. Explain it a bit more please?

Edited July 12, 2013 by CrazyMcGee

[Darth_Moonshadow]

In continuity? What does that even mean?

[Machine-Elf]

You're asking to not have to do any side quests? I believe that option is already available.

No, I'm asking for the inclusion of a feature that allows quests to be delivered to the player in the order in which they were intended to be, from a storytelling standpoint.

 

The way it works now, the onus is on the player to figure out whether Illum takes place before or after the Black Hole Daily missions, for example. With a "story toggle" which allowed for what I'm proposing, situations like, for instance, going to Makeb and hearing Darth Marr talk about your conflict with the Dread Masters—even if the player has not in fact been involved with any of the Operations he's obviously referring to—would not take place. Instead, you would only be able to unlock the Makeb questlines if you had done the Operations in question.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[Andryah]

No, I'm asking for the inclusion of a feature that allows quests to be delivered to the player in the order with which they were intended to be from a storytelling standpoint.

 

The way it works now, the onus is on the player to figure out whether Illum takes place before or after the Black Hole Daily missions, for example. With a "story toggle" which allowed for what I'm proposing, situations like, for instance, going to Makeb and hearing Darth Marr talk about your conflict with the Dread Masters—even if the player has not in fact been involved with any of the Operations he's obviously referring to—would not take place. Instead, you would only be able to unlock the Makeb questlines if you had done the Operations in question.

 

I actually think that if the players just follow the mission breadcrumbs in this game.. it's one of the best at leading the player sequentially through the content.

 

Now.. if you ignore the bread crumbs... oh well.. you deserve to be lost forever...because following quest breadcrumbs is MMO 101.

 

So I really don't get the request at all.

[Machine-Elf]

I actually think that if the players just follow the mission breadcrumbs in this game.. it's one of the best at leading the player sequentially through the content.

 

Now.. if you ignore the bread crumbs... oh well.. you deserve to be lost forever...because following quest breadcrumbs is MMO 101.

 

So I really don't get the request at all.

Well I've had an exceedingly hard time in doing so, and I don't think I'm all that stupid. I may need a second opinion on that though...

 

The issue is that yes, those breadcrumbs are laid out, but only provided you do every single side-quest in the game (an exceedingly time-consuming task that is obviously not intended to be force-fed upon the player). For example, there is a quest on Belsavis in which you rescue the Dreadmasters. As you make your way further into the planet, NPCs will refer to this event, even if you hadn't picked it up. In other words it is possible, even likely, for players to experience a somewhat jarring situation where they're told about events they never took part in and characters they never met under the assumption that they have first-hand knowledge of these matters.

 

This is just a small example of how the current quest-system can often break the rhythm of the story and make it less accessible (the addition of group-finder worked to exacerbate this problem even further, but that's an entirely separate issue).

Edited July 12, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[MrGreaterGood]

So what I get from your posts is that you want no references in your story of some what "important" side quests because you don't want to complete them...? Also your example is pretty terrible, calling out the dread masters quest on Belsavis, seeing as it is a major canon story of this game having been in the last three new end game raids. I think it would be worse for them to mention nothing about important things because you would be even more out of the loop when you came across them again later. Edited July 12, 2013 by MrGreaterGood

[Pubsam]

Hmm I believe I see what you're saying, though I'm not sure it's necessary. The lore-conscious player will likely level through every planet's story content, and as such will experience every bit of story content sequentially until they hit 50.

 

At 50 it admittedly gets a bit confusing, maybe. The end of the class quest leads you to Ilum. In real time they later released the Black Hole, and then later Section X. Honestly the 'story' of these zones is pretty insular - as long as you do Black Hole after you did Corellia and Section X after Belsavis, it's fine. They don't really compete with Ilum on a timeline if I'm remember them right, so not being sure which 50 daily area to do first won't really mess up any continuity even if you do them 'out of order.'

 

Makeb however does need to be completed after finishing Ilum (and thus the class story)(also Battle of Ilum and False Emperor) if you don't want any holes. I would think someone interested in the storylines would do Ilum (and the connected FPs) since the class quests really do funnel you in there. Although I know there was an issue with your ship's holo giving you a spoiler-ridden quest to go to Makeb when you hit 48 or so and unlikely not done with story. If they haven't fixed that yet sheeesh.

 

I can see some traps for those not wanting spoilers via the LFG system. If you queue for an FP while finishing your class story on Corellia you could very well get BoI or FE.

 

I have no idea how your toggle idea could even work, but I'd suggest BW marking those FPs, as well as BP, Foundry, etc. as 'story FPs' or something, and then defining a story FP as one that is a continuation or culmination of a plot begun by quests planet-side. Most people would ignore this, but the lore-conscious person who doesn't want to be confused or have things spoiled wouldn't.

[BaronV]

Well I've had an exceedingly hard time in doing so, and I don't think I'm all that stupid. I may need a second opinion on that though...

 

The issue is that yes, those breadcrumbs are laid out, but only provided you do every single side-quest in the game (an exceedingly time-consuming task that is obviously not intended to be force-fed upon the player). For example, there is a quest on Belsavis in which you rescue the Dreadmasters. As you make your way further into the planet, NPCs will refer to this event, even if you hadn't picked it up. In other words it is possible, even likely, for players to experience a somewhat jarring situation where they're told about events they never took part in and characters they never met under the assumption that they have first-hand knowledge of these matters.

 

This is just a small example of how the current quest-system can often break the rhythm of the story and make it less accessible (the addition of group-finder worked to exacerbate this problem even further, but that's an entirely separate issue).

 

What you're saying has merit.

 

It wasnt the case when the game first launched though. The breadcrumbs were very clear and it wasnt as easy to accidentally get to content that was chronologically after something you hadnt done yet.

 

But as things have been added like the black hole and the dread masters arc, its alot easier to get stuff jumbled up now

[Magnusheart]

I think he is asking to have old class quests repeatable for Lore and Roleplay usage, such as screenshots etc.

[gorstram]

I actually think that if the players just follow the mission breadcrumbs in this game.. it's one of the best at leading the player sequentially through the content.

 

Now.. if you ignore the bread crumbs... oh well.. you deserve to be lost forever...because following quest breadcrumbs is MMO 101.

 

So I really don't get the request at all.

 

Correction, MMO 101 is "Don't stand in funny looking stuff."

[branmakmuffin]

You're asking to not have to do any side quests? I believe that option is already available.

Is that what he's asking for? 'Cause I have no idea from reading his post.

[Jenzali]

I just want to replay my class story from the beginning using my existing characters. I have deleted and remade level 50+ characters just to replay the class stories and record "perfect" videos. That's why I'll never reach Valor 100 Edited July 12, 2013 by Jenzali

[Machine-Elf]

Is that what he's asking for? 'Cause I have no idea from reading his post.

Where's the big mystery?

[Machine-Elf]

I think he is asking to have old class quests repeatable for Lore and Roleplay usage, such as screenshots etc.

Nope, sorry

Read a little further into the thread, I think I make myself pretty clear there.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[TheNahash]

The way it works now, the onus is on the player to figure out whether Illum takes place before or after the Black Hole Daily missions, for example. With a "story toggle" which allowed for what I'm proposing, situations like, for instance, going to Makeb and hearing Darth Marr talk about your conflict with the Dread Masters—even if the player has not in fact been involved with any of the Operations he's obviously referring to—would not take place. Instead, you would only be able to unlock the Makeb questlines if you had done the Operations in question.

 

Ilum comes after your class quests end. And they have nothing to do with each other. It makes no difference which one came first, although it's pretty obvious (if you ask me) that Ilum comes before BH, because Ilum is a direct continuation of you class quests.

 

Instead, you would only be able to unlock the Makeb questlines if you had done the Operations in question.

 

This is a very, VERY bad idea...

 

a. Not everyone does Operations.

b. How is the Makeb storyline related to the Dread Masters? It's been a few months since I last did the quests on Makeb, but aren't they all against the Hutts and (to some extent) the Empire/Republic?

c. Why stop there? Don't allow anyone to do any quests past Belsavis, if they haven't completed the Belsavis storyline, since this is essentially the basis for all operations that involve the Dread Masters.

 

 

I don't understand how what you're proposing would be helpful to anyone. But maybe you didn't explain it well enough, I don't know.

Edited July 12, 2013 by TheNahash

[Machine-Elf]

Ilum comes after your class quests end. And they have nothing to do with each other. It makes no difference which one came first, although it's pretty obvious (if you ask me) that Ilum comes before BH, because Ilum is a direct continuation of you class quests.

 

 

 

This is a very, VERY bad idea...

 

a. Not everyone does Operations.

b. How is the Makeb storyline related to the Dread Masters? It's been a few months since I last did the quests on Makeb, but aren't they all against the Hutts and (to some extent) the Empire/Republic?

c. Why stop there? Don't allow anyone to do any quests past Belsavis, if they haven't completed the Belsavis storyline, since this is essentially the basis for all operations that involve the Dread Masters.

 

 

I don't understand how what you're proposing would be helpful to anyone. But maybe you didn't explain it well enough, I don't know.

 

I think you misunderstood me. The entire thing would be optional, you'd be able to toggle it on and off. So yeah, the three examples you listed (a, b, and c) don't really apply in this case.

 

As for your question in point b: in the introduction to Makeb, Darth Marr greets the Sith Inquisitor with, and I quote, "put aside your power plays and search for the Dread Masters" — a phrase which will no doubt leave those who've not yet played the necessary Dread Masters'-themed Operations by the time they reach Makeb significantly confused.

 

Hope that made sense. Sorry, so tired...

Edited July 12, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[Hockaday]

I can't be the only one thinking "why don't you just pay attention"...just do all the quests in order / on a planet. You really don't need anything to help that. If you really want to see it in order, you'll be doing -all- the content on a planet anyway. And I don't believe bonus quests matter -too- much. Ilum is obviously after your class story. Then Bh, then SX...and as others have said, that doesn't even matter that much...long as you do bh and sx after cor and bel respectively.

[Machine-Elf]

I can't be the only one thinking "why don't you just pay attention"...just do all the quests in order / on a planet. You really don't need anything to help that. If you really want to see it in order, you'll be doing -all- the content on a planet anyway. And I don't believe bonus quests matter -too- much. Ilum is obviously after your class story. Then Bh, then SX...and as others have said, that doesn't even matter that much...long as you do bh and sx after cor and bel respectively.

I'm too tired to explain this properly, but you wouldn't be forced to do every single side quest in order to keep within the continuity of the game's overarching story, because the overwhelming majority of the side quests are stand-alone, unconnected.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[Hockaday]

I'm too tired to explain this properly, but you wouldn't be forced to do every single side quest in order to keep within the continuity of the game's overarching story, because the overwhelming majority of the side-quests are stand alone, unconnected.

 

Then you really don't need this at all...do you? If you mean just planet arcs...they're linked to your story. You have to do your story in order (besides alderaan and nar for some reason, which I'm told doesn't matter) So...yeah. Just follow with your class story. Considering the daily planets don't really have an arc.

[Machine-Elf]

I'll give you an example of how continuity is jumbled and not nearly as cut and dry as you might think it is: did you know the events that take place in the Black Hole dailies are AFTER the Karagga's Palace, Explosive Conflict, and possibly even then Scum and Villainy Operations?

 

Take a look at this video, right around the 1:00 mark:

 

Now that you've seen it for yourself, I'm sure you'll agree with me that the General's line concerning the problems in Hutt Space and Denova would make very little sense for a player who had not yet run those Operations.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[Machine-Elf]

Hello...?

[AlienEyeTX]

No, I'm asking for the inclusion of a feature that allows quests to be delivered to the player in the order in which they were intended to be, from a storytelling standpoint.

 

The way it works now, the onus is on the player to figure out whether Illum takes place before or after the Black Hole Daily missions, for example. With a "story toggle" which allowed for what I'm proposing, situations like, for instance, going to Makeb and hearing Darth Marr talk about your conflict with the Dread Masters—even if the player has not in fact been involved with any of the Operations he's obviously referring to—would not take place. Instead, you would only be able to unlock the Makeb questlines if you had done the Operations in question.

 

No, no, and no. I get what you're asking for, but cannot agree with the Makeb example. Not everyone many ops or flashpoints, and they shouldn't be required to do that content to unlock their single-player story.

 

If you just play through the planets in the order that they are presented, you will have exactly what you want. That's one of the reasons that they have courier shuttles on the planets. They'll get you to the right place at the right time.

[Machine-Elf]

No, no, and no. I get what you're asking for, but cannot agree with the Makeb example. Not everyone many ops or flashpoints, and they shouldn't be required to do that content to unlock their single-player story.

 

If you just play through the planets in the order that they are presented, you will have exactly what you want. That's one of the reasons that they have courier shuttles on the planets. They'll get you to the right place at the right time.

Jesus guys, it's OPTIONAL! Same way you can choose to have nameplates or not.