Panic_Prone Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 My guild leader refuses to let me run my powertech tank in our ranked games. His reasoning went something along the lines of the armor debuff from the jug smash is essential to the team's dps. Now my main is a jug tank and have been playing it since launch, but ever since 2.0 came out I've been working on a pt tank on the side and I really feel that it can be better or just as good as a jug/guardian tank. I feel that oil slick is just devastating and the grapple can immediately isolate a player for focus fire. Granted the jug force push could do something similar, but in my experience as a jug tank, I usually save it to push people away from our healers. So I leave it to the community, can a pt tank be used over the jug tank or is the jug intercede and armor debuff a must have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimeStax Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Jugg Tanks are better at protecting, peeling, and preventing DPS. Vanguard tanks are better at breaking caps (more ranged attacks and shoulder cannon means they can break caps even when CC'd). Other than that they're the same. Oil Slick is no more useful than Freezing Force, if anything Freezing Force is better since it can be spammed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManiacDavis Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Vanguard is an under utilized class that can be viable in ranked. However the amount of skill and practice required to make it work is far above the other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arehonn Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Jugg Tanks are better at protecting, peeling, and preventing DPS. Vanguard tanks are better at breaking caps (more ranged attacks and shoulder cannon means they can break caps even when CC'd). Other than that they're the same. Oil Slick is no more useful than Freezing Force, if anything Freezing Force is better since it can be spammed. Explosive Surge > Freezing Force. Oil Slick / Riot Gas is something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimeStax Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Explosive Surge > Freezing Force. Oil Slick / Riot Gas is something different. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Vanguard is an under utilized class that can be viable in ranked. However the amount of skill and practice required to make it work is far above the other classes. Yeah this is what I think. They can be played at a very high level. Oil slick, jump, pull, HtL. While a jug is usually more wanted a PT is far from useless in terms of a main tank, an assassin is useless as a main tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arehonn Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) What? Explosive Surge/Flame Sweep is the spammable AOE slow from Vanguards/Powertechs. With the tank spec, you can have it so it's also a damage debuff. It also does damage, with increases in the tank tree for higher crit chance, damage, and 2 free attacks after leaping to a target. As far as I know, Freezing Force is just an AOE slow. Edited July 11, 2013 by Arehonn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCourier- Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 PT tank can work, but not well. PT tank isn't bad, it's just that for huttball a guardian/juggernaut tank is easily the best tank. I've played ranked with a PT tank on my team before. The guy did well, but the thing is that huttball was a nightmare to score at. We won, but winning with a juggernaut would've been way easier. Guardian leap is super nice for huttball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryvirath Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Good players are viable in ranked. A PT tank would definitely work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimeStax Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) Explosive Surge/Flame Sweep is the spammable AOE slow from Vanguards/Powertechs. With the tank spec, you can have it so it's also a damage debuff. It also does damage, with increases in the tank tree for higher crit chance, damage, and 2 free attacks after leaping to a target. As far as I know, Freezing Force is just an AOE slow. Ah I see. Better, yes. Spammable, no. Will it do the job, yes. However, Freezing Force is free all day erryday. Edited July 11, 2013 by DimeStax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) Good players are viable in ranked. A PT tank would definitely work. if you're only talking about tank specs, jugg is a little better than pt as a guard/peel and ball carrier. so technically, there's no call for you if the jugg is as good a player. however, the ability to respec in the current state of 2.0 makes juggs a lot easier choice. smash > pyro. all of that said, if the PT is more skilled than the Jugg, take the PT. if they're the same skill and they're in my guild, I'd just rotate them in. it won't make much of a difference if they're my sole tank. Edited July 11, 2013 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainGenos Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 A PT tank? Lawl. Why even Queue. Just take the speeder down and stand up top until you get deserter. That's about as helpful as you can be on a PT. A PT tank jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I have ran into a few PT tanks and they are awesome as far as sucking up damage from my POV as a GS. If I see one guarding a node with a healer, I'd probably be better off to go the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcappah Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 A PT tank? Lawl. Why even Queue. Just take the speeder down and stand up top until you get deserter. That's about as helpful as you can be on a PT. A PT tank jeez. Damn, ripped on by a guy in the same guild. Guild cannibalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaBoomer Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Damn, ripped on by a guy in the same guild. Guild cannibalism. HAHA I was thinking the same thing. I was curious too whether I should invest time into my Vanguard for ranked. I refuse to reroll another class every few months so I can have an advantage and then tell people to L2P. I also understand that if you want to maximize your effectiveness in rated WZs then it can be useful to grab skilled players who play OP specs. So I assume I have to be spot on to even be considered by many teams. That being said is there any tips successful Vanguard/Power Tech tanks can give? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryvirath Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 A PT tank? Lawl. Why even Queue. Just take the speeder down and stand up top until you get deserter. That's about as helpful as you can be on a PT. A PT tank jeez. This is utter rubbish no doubt spawned by a false sense of skill. Know the class and performance isn't an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimeStax Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) This is utter rubbish no doubt spawned by a false sense of skill. Know the class and performance isn't an issue. Yeah, I don't really see any reasons not to take a PT tank other than the fact that they are slightly less optimal over a Guardian in Huttball, however let's not forget Guardians aren't the unstoppable forces in Huttball they once were with Unremitting so PT's are a perfectly acceptable option. Edited July 11, 2013 by DimeStax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Fred Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Coming from a player who has played all three tanks ( my main is a jug tank) I can tell you that while guardians can soak up more dmg and has the friendly leap in huttball, power tech tanks are just as effective if they use hold the line correctly. Also in huttball IMO grapple > force push. If your fighting a competent team chances are the only way your going to kill the enemy ball carrier is in the fire pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimeStax Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Also in huttball IMO grapple > force push. If your fighting a competent team chances are the only way your going to kill the enemy ball carrier is in the fire pit. For defense, not for scoring. And fire kills aren't as certain as they once were anymore. Jugg/Guardian tanks can live through a fire pull if they pop their cooldowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavroz Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) Guardians are the preferred tank for all the top rated teams for a reason and I am not talking about hutball. While a good player can make a vanguard work, the same player will get more out of a guardian. Lets examine why Gaurdian AE taunts also adds bubble for DMg mitigation Gaurdian leap puts a 20% DMg reduction on target as well as heals the Gaurdian (yes it's a set bonus) Also Gaurdian leap lets u get to a target faster to protect if u are caught out of position Now lets examine defensive cool downs Vanguard only gets 2 DMg mitigation/heal abilities Reactive shield 25% DMg on 2min cd Adrenalin rush nice heal but u have to be 30% Hp at which point u need to pray u don't eat 5 dispatches 8 assassinates and 6 takedowns(yes I am over exaggerating) Gaurdian gets 6 Saber ward 50% defence plus 25%dmg mitigation from tech/force 2 min CD Warding call 40% DMg reduction 2.5 min CD Reflect 1 min CD Annure 3 min CD? Blade barrier 12 sec CD? Gaurdian leap 20 sec CD Peeling tools Vanguard has riot gas 1 min CD Nueral surge 45 sec CD Cryo grenade 1 min CD Harpoon 45 sec CD Static surge spamable but costs energy unless u leap where u get 2 cast for free Gaurdian peeling Choke 1 min CD Hilt strike 45 sec CD Freezing force spamable no cost Force push 30sec CD? Awe 1 min CD So the Gaurdian has more to offer to the group via keeping himself alive as well As peeling and mitagating. dmg from his group. Edited July 11, 2013 by Stavroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermura Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Basic issue for power techs is quite simple: There dps trees are inferior to juggernaut. There tank tree is inferior to juggernaut. There cool downs are inferior to juggernaut. There CC is inferior to juggernaut. There mobility is inferior to juggernaut. From this you should not be surprised if people conclude that powertech is inferior to juggernaut. Anything a powertech can do, a juggernaut can also do, only better. I'm sorry, but it's simply true. Powertech was ok before, not because of tanking, but because of pyrotech burst. To an extent, this was enough to balance out their weakness in other areas. Now, powertech has lost its damage advantage and the other deficiencies of the class render them irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) While a good player can make a vanguard work, the same player will get more out of a guardian. this statement is true. it also means VG tanks are viable. teams that dismiss them out of hand are misguided. you don't even have to change strat. granted, I'm frustrated that they're the worst tank and their dps trees are not so good. but to dismiss the tank out of hand because it's a tank (or a burner, for that matter) is just misguided. compare to commando, which is also frowned upon but perfectly viable. with them, you DO need to adjust your strat. it's the same basic problem as FotM syndrome. once ppl know a particular class has an edge, no matter how slight, they automatically build their teams around that cookie cutter model, completely ignorant of the more important issue, which is who's manning the kb, not what class he's playing. Edited July 12, 2013 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikrazy Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Basic issue for power techs is quite simple: There dps trees are inferior to juggernaut. There tank tree is inferior to juggernaut. There cool downs are inferior to juggernaut. There CC is inferior to juggernaut. There mobility is inferior to juggernaut. Yeah, well you know, that's just like, your opinion man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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