Karpyshyn's Surik vs Avellone's Exile.

[Beniboybling]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peh2T2543ec&t=0m17s

[Beniboybling]

I don't know. Are you saying he could possibly draw on that energy like Jacen did?

I'm not saying anything, I just thought he experienced a moment of Oneness and then it went away.

Well Kreia doesn't need her hands to attack you, she has proven that many times, severing her connection to the force was the best way to make sure she didn't keep attacking and it also means the Exile doesn't have to kill her either.

Very true, I guess it also explains why Traya just stopped fighting once you have destroyed her lightsabers. I expect it used up the last of her energy.

[Aurbere]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peh2T2543ec&t=0m17s

 

Darn you! DARN YOU!!!!!

[Beniboybling]

Darn you! DARN YOU!!!!!

I am the meme master!

[Aurbere]

I'm not saying anything, I just thought he experienced a moment of Oneness and then it went away.

 

Well I don't know what the specifics of Jacen's case is, so I can't comment on the possibilities.

[Darth_Omega]

Regarding the original question in this post, here's reasons why I think the Exile was not as strong as she was in the book as opposed to the game. First off, I agree that her ability to call on the light side of the force on Dromund Kass was hindered. (I don't know why people are putting Nathema in here, as it was absent in the force, which would severely weaken anyone who relied on the force).

 

Meetra grew more powerful as she formed bonds with others, and due to her being a wound in the force her bonds were not like normal bonds which strengthened both parties. Instead, she leached power from those she bonded with, and when she was on Dromund Kass it's likely she could not feel the bonds she had created with all her companions.

 

Also it should be noted that she wasn't really super powerful in the game either. In order to beat Nihilus (who was handicapped by exhausting himself trying to drain the Exile) she needed the help of both Visas and Mandalore, and it was still stated that he was overpowering them. So Visas had to sever her bond with Nihilus in order to weaken him so he could be defeated. In order to beat Sion she had to use Dun Moch. As for Traya, I'm not so sure Traya wanted to kill the Exile, so we can't be sure that Meetra was more powerful than her. Also, not sure about this, but it's possible that due to Meetra having a bond with Traya, it would have weakened Traya due to the nature of her bonds making it so she leeches power from those she has them with.

 

And as for people saying Drew is incompetent, yes I agree it's stupid he didn't research the Exile at all, but after all he is a great author, and that's the only thing he has done that annoyed me. He should be given more respect.

[tunewalker]

I have a question Rayla..... if the nexus weakened Meetra was it also buffing Nyriss since it should have the opposite effect on dark side users making her fight against something of a double disadvantage aka is it possible that Meetra was actually just as powerful as Nyriss had Nyriss not been receiving a helping hand from the planet, and Meetra not been weakened by it.

[Beniboybling]

I have a question Rayla..... if the nexus weakened Meetra was it also buffing Nyriss since it should have the opposite effect on dark side users making her fight against something of a double disadvantage aka is it possible that Meetra was actually just as powerful as Nyriss had Nyriss not been receiving a helping hand from the planet, and Meetra not been weakened by it.

I don't think it would have had an effect on either of them. Dromund Kaas itself is not a dark side nexus, though certain locations such as the Dark Temple and the Dark Force Temple inhabit smaller Force nexuses. Darth Nyriss's stronghold has not been subject to enough dark side energy to become a dark side nexus.

 

That said I think I agree with Rayla that Meetra's wound closed, which Drew makes no mention of, which would have weakened her. Well I suppose I'm not entirely sure.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

I don't think it would have had an effect on either of them. Dromund Kaas itself is not a dark side nexus, though certain locations such as the Dark Temple and the Dark Force Temple inhabit smaller Force nexuses. Darth Nyriss's stronghold has not been subject to enough dark side energy to become a dark side nexus.

 

That said I think I agree with Rayla that Meetra's wound closed, which Drew makes no mention of, which would have weakened her. Well I suppose I'm not entirely sure.

 

Ultimately that's why I was asking all kinds of speculation, its like this

[LadyKulvax]

Dromund Kaas is a dark side nexus:

 

"The planet was shrouded in a pervasive miasma of dark side energy, and locations such as the Dark Temple and the Dark Force Temple were the sites of intensely strong Force nexuses."

[tunewalker]

Dromund Kaas is a dark side nexus:

 

"The planet was shrouded in a pervasive miasma of dark side energy, and locations such as the Dark Temple and the Dark Force Temple were the sites of intensely strong Force nexuses."

 

Oh so I guess back to my original question.... would it have made Nyriss more powerful as well as Meetra weaker so is it possible that they were in fact the same strength with out a nexus powering them or weakening them.

[LadyKulvax]

Oh so I guess back to my original question.... would it have made Nyriss more powerful as well as Meetra weaker so is it possible that they were in fact the same strength with out a nexus powering them or weakening them.

 

I see no reason to believe otherwise, Darth Zannah was able to use the planet Ambria to enhance her own powers and summon Dark Side Tendrils.

 

We also know as a matter of fact that Vitiate purposefully built numerous sites where he could syphon the power of the Dark Side that surrounded the planet whenever he wished to.

[Beniboybling]

Dromund Kaas is a dark side nexus:

 

"The planet was shrouded in a pervasive miasma of dark side energy, and locations such as the Dark Temple and the Dark Force Temple were the sites of intensely strong Force nexuses."

Well clearly given the fact that a distinction is made between the planet and the Force nexuses themselves Dromund is an unconcentrated nexus. Much like Korriban, or Dathomir, not much to have a significant effect on one's ability, unless you approach one of the concentrated nexuses of course.

[Beniboybling]

I see no reason to believe otherwise, Darth Zannah was able to use the planet Ambria to enhance her own powers and summon Dark Side Tendrils.

 

We also know as a matter of fact that Vitiate purposefully built numerous sites where he could syphon the power of the Dark Side that surrounded the planet whenever he wished to.

Actually Zannah used the dark side nexus that is Lake Nath on Ambria to do so. Likewise you'd have to approach a Force nexus such as the Dark Temple of the Dark Force Temple to have your powers bolstered or weakened.

 

To quote Wookieepedia:

 

The Emperor also utilized the Temple for many experiments and dark side rituals, transforming the structure and the surrounding area into a nexus of dark Force energy as he drained the knowledge and life essences of his most powerful enemies.[9]

 

Kaas City is quite a distance from the nexus that is the Dark Temple, and Nyriss' stronghold even further. It is never stated in the Revan novel that Nyriss was empowered by the nexus or Meetra weakened, so we cannot assume they were

Edited July 11, 2013 by Beniboybling

[LadyKulvax]

Well clearly given the fact that a distinction is made between the planet and the Force nexuses themselves Dromund is an unconcentrated nexus. Much like Korriban, or Dathomir, not much to have a significant effect on one's ability, unless you approach one of the concentrated nexuses of course.

 

Regardless of size, the planet was almost custom designed for the Sith to draw on the power of the planet itself.

 

Also, Korriban is a Dark Side Nexus it is simply more concentrated in certain areas, as is Dathomir, Mortis, Dromund Kaas, Byss and Ziost, not to mention a few others.

 

Simply put, you are now arguing about meta physics.

Edited July 11, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

Regardless of size, the planet was almost custom designed for the Sith to draw on the power of the planet itself.

 

Also, Korriban is a Dark Side Nexus it is simply more concentrated in certain areas, as is Dathomir, Mortis, Dromund Kaas, Byss and Ziost, not to mention a few others.

 

Simply put, you are now arguing about meta physics.

Exactly, certain areas are more concentrated, and you have to be in those concentrated areas to have your powers bolstered or weakened, not simply be on the planet.

 

The residual energies of these nexuses should have little to no effect.

 

And I have no idea what the Force has to do with metaphysics lol.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Beniboybling

[LadyKulvax]

Exactly, certain areas are more concentrated, and you have to be in those concentrated areas to have your powers bolstered or weakened, not simply be on the planet. The residual energies of these nexuses should have little to no effect.

 

That is an assumption you are making, Byss was a complete Dark Side nexus yet it was only so due to Palpatine's clone bodies and Sith Alchemy labs.

 

The same is said of other planets, planets like Korriban, Ziost and Dromund Kaas are all Dark Side nexi because they were all inhabited for centuries by the Sith Lords which is one of the most powerful ways to corrupt a planet.

 

Dromund Kaas itself was victim in a way to the Emperor's experiments, so much so that the wildlife changed, the atmosphere changed, the flora and fauna changed to almost entirely predatory species, the Dark Temple acted like a beacon of Dark Side energy, as did numerous sites around Dromund Kaas and the Emperor's Citadel itself became a Dark Side nexus because of the Emperor's long presence within it.

[LadyKulvax]

Having just read the page, it is made clear that the moment she enters the atmosphere she feels the sheer power of the Dark Side on the planet and just re-reading the prophets saga, how the atmosphere itself acted as a bubble of the Dark Side when Katarn entered it.

[Beniboybling]

That is an assumption you are making, Byss was a complete Dark Side nexus yet it was only so due to Palpatine's clone bodies and Sith Alchemy labs.

 

The same is said of other planets, planets like Korriban, Ziost and Dromund Kaas are all Dark Side nexi because they were all inhabited for centuries by the Sith Lords which is one of the most powerful ways to corrupt a planet.

 

Dromund Kaas itself was victim in a way to the Emperor's experiments, so much so that the wildlife changed, the atmosphere changed, the flora and fauna changed to almost entirely predatory species, the Dark Temple acted like a beacon of Dark Side energy, as did numerous sites around Dromund Kaas and the Emperor's Citadel itself became a Dark Side nexus because of the Emperor's long presence within it.

Are you not making an assumption that Droumund Kaas had an effect on Meetra and Nyriss? When this has never actually been stated? Is this whole thread not just a theory? Regardless I actually have evidence that Kaas had various concentrated Force nexuses and the planet was not just thrumming with dark side energy on a massive scale:

 

The Emperor also utilized the Temple for many experiments and dark side rituals, transforming the structure and the surrounding area into a nexus of dark Force energy as he drained the knowledge and life essences of his most powerful enemies.[9]

 

The planet was shrouded in a pervasive miasma of dark side energy,[17] and locations such as the Dark Temple[7] and the Dark Force Temple were the sites of intensely strong Force nexuses.[12]

 

Clearly there is a difference between the entire planet itself, and these strong dark side nexuses. Else such a distinction would have been made. Nor would have been said that the Emperor's experiments only effected the surrounding area.

 

Clearly the nexus caused by the Emperor was centered around the Dark Temple, as was there a nexus around the Dark Force Temple, which is why it empowered them when they drew near, and weakened Jedi. That said it didn't seem to weaken the Hero of Tython so perhaps its not even that strong.

 

I'd compare it to radiation. An area with low levels of radiation is not going to have an immediate impact on you, however after prolonged exposure it will. However if exposed to high levels of radiation your likely to quickly grow sick and die fairly quickly. Similarly if exposed to minor levels of dark side energy, only prolonged exposure will have an effect i.e. the mutation of the flora and fauna. However you'd have to be in an area of high dark side energy for it to have an immediate effect on you i.e. diminishing your Force potential.

 

No this is nowhere directly stated, but the evidence we have seems to point to this being the case. After all in the end Drew made no mention to dark side nexuses having a significant diminishing effect on Meetra and a bolstering effect on Nyriss. So we cannot assume that it did. Especially given the fact that nowhere has such an effect been replicated.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Having just read the page, it is made clear that the moment she enters the atmosphere she feels the sheer power of the Dark Side on the planet and just re-reading the prophets saga, how the atmosphere itself acted as a bubble of the Dark Side when Katarn entered it.

Again I'm not denying that the planet is shrouded in the dark side, that much is clear, but feeling the power of the dark side emanating from the planet and having it effect you are two very different things.

[LadyKulvax]

Nowhere has it been replicated? that's funny because Kyle Katarn fell to the Dark Side just by walking around on it.

 

Yoda himself couldn't command the Force whilst walking on it properly.

 

Ben Skywalker couldn't use the force to any significant degree at all whilst walking around it.

 

Jaina couldn't use the Force on it to any meaningful degree and had a migraine just from being there.

 

Even Luke had difficulty wielding the Force to his full command.

 

Unless you can provide sufficient evidence that Meetra is some special case and clearly couldn't suffer the same effects as these did, then I don't see where you're basing your argument, Dromund Kaas, semantics or no semantics, clearly effected the ability of Light Side users.

 

It however empowering Nyriss is a different argument altogether.

Edited July 11, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

Nowhere has it been replicated? that's funny because Kyle Katarn fell to the Dark Side just by walking around on it.

 

Yoda himself couldn't command the Force whilst walking on it properly.

 

Ben Skywalker couldn't use the force to any significant degree at all whilst walking around it.

 

Jaina couldn't use the Force on it to any meaningful degree and had a migraine just from being there.

 

Even Luke had difficulty wielding the Force to his full command.

 

Unless you can provide sufficient evidence that Meetra is some special case and clearly couldn't suffer the same effects as these did, then I don't see where you're basing your argument, Dromund Kaas, semantics or no semantics, clearly effected the ability of Light Side users.

 

It however empowering Nyriss is a different argument altogether.

I believe all were in the presence of a Force nexus i.e. the Dark Force Temple. Meetra was far away from said temple, as well as the Dark Temple, so we can assume it had little/no effect.

 

And this has nothing to do with semantics of metaphysics... its a question of how strong the energies of the dark side were around Darth Nyriss' stronghold.

 

Though again, it had no effect on the Hero of Tython and he was within the very bowels of the Dark Temple.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Beniboybling

[LadyKulvax]

I believe all were in the presence of a Force nexus i.e. the Dark Force Temple.

 

Though again, it had no effect on the Hero of Tython and he was within the very bowels of the Dark Temple.

 

I am reading the book right now, they were all effected the moment they arrived, I.E before they reached the Dark Force Temple.

 

Oh and the Hero of Tython was a master lightsaber duellist and didn't need the Force at all, she clearly used her lightsaber the entire time during the battle with the Emperor.

 

Also, the HoT is most likely far more powerful than both Revan and the Exile any way.

 

Also, even if you were correct, that would still mean that Nyriss alone, with the help of a Sith Lord was still a stronger being than the Triumvirate were in the Trayus Academy, which I simply do not believe at all.

Edited July 11, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

I am reading the book right now, they were all effected the moment they arrived, I.E before they reached the Dark Force Temple.

 

Oh and the Hero of Tython was a master lightsaber duellist and didn't need the Force at all, she clearly used her lightsaber the entire time during the battle with the Emperor.

 

Also, the HoT is most likely far more powerful than both Revan and the Exile any way.

 

Also, even if you were correct, that would still mean that Nyriss alone, with the help of a Sith Lord was still a stronger being than the Triumvirate were in the Trayus Academy, which I simply do not believe at all.

Well you'll have to elaborate, because according to Wookieepedia they went to the planet to find the Lost Tribe of the Sith and came to the Dark Force Temple. So I'd assume they touched down on the planet and approached it on foot, meaning all the while they must have been in proximity to it and therefore effected by the Force nexus it produces. Just like the area surrounding the Dark Temple is part of the Force nexus.

 

I only say this because that seems to be the nature of Force nexuses, and Drew makes no mention of the nexus empowering Scourge or weakening Nyriss.

 

And the idea that the Hero of Tython wasn't wielding the Force while wielding his lightsaber, which he used to deflect Vitiate's lightning, isn't true. You need the Force to wield a lightsaber. And I don't think we can say for sure that the HoT is more powerful than Revan.

 

And anyway, it happened. Like you said even if her powers were dampened she still had Scourge for back up. All we can say is Nyriss is very powerful.

[LadyKulvax]

They had to get through a swamp which took a long time to trudge through, to get there beforehand, they were all feeling the effects before they reached the Dark Force Temple, Ben even states that he doesn't think he can be any use for them on this mission(not like he ever is, but any way).

 

And Yoda doesn't even go to the Dark Force Temple, he simply travels around the planet and finds it difficult to use the Force properly whilst on it and decides it would be best to leave.

 

Also, there are many great lightsaber duellists that were weak in Force prowess, HoT does not at all need to rely on the Force to battle the Emperor, which by the way, his lightsaber was the only thing he used in all cutscenes.

 

Regardless I maintain that Meetra's near death experience at Nathema and the power of Dromund Kaas which we have seen effect many Jedi detrimentally indeed diminished her ability to call on the Force.

 

This is the only explanation for how the Exile could go from defeating two very powerful Darths and their host, whilst in one of the most powerful Dark Side nexus ever seen to struggling with Imperial Guard and getting defeated easily with Scourge's help against Nyriss whom herself was defeated easily by Revan.

 

You may disagree with my assessment but many here concur with it.

Edited July 11, 2013 by LadyKulvax