LadyKulvax Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 Or those immune to it. *Palpatine cackle* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 *Palpatine cackle* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Since 2006. Cool. /thumbs up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 SImply put I think it makes sense that after all she had gone through and the planet she was fighting on, she was simply not nearly as effective as she could have been. I mean you nearly die from lack of Force energy and then go straight to a Dark Side nexus where the likes of Katarn, Jaina, Ben and even Yoda as well as others had their powers diminished severely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Yes but she is a part of Malachor V as she herself is a Wound in the Force from Malachor V, after Malachor V and once it is destroyed, she as an Echo simply seems to lose her own wound and heals fully from it, then we see what happens to her on nathema and that was FAR worse for her. Also Revan can call on the Dark Side of the Force as well as the Light Side and given the reveal in Dawn of the Jedi that Force Healing is actually based on Alchemy, the same alchemy that would come to be known as Sith Alchemy later on, though a far less extreme implementation of it, it makes sense that Revan over anyone would be able to use his power there, especially after a moment of Oneness. Something that also doesn't just vanish, when Jacen achieved it, it didn't actually go away, he instead learnt to use it in a much lesser application via Force Overload which allowed him to use the Force at higher degrees than was safe for his body.But is this all just speculation? Or actual fact? I cant imagine the cause of the wound would make you inherently tied to it. Really the cause was the deaths of millions of people, which caused three wounds, Malachor, Meetra and Nihilus, but just because they have the same source doesn't mean they are connected. I mean killing Nihilus had no effect on her. That said its entirely possible the wound inside of her closed, somehow. You make a good point about Revan though. But wait, does that mean experiencing a moment of oneness permanently strengthened Revan's connection to the Force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Bwahaha! But seriously, I don't think she's that OP - Force drain is certainly a trump card but I imagine its effectiveness lessens against a more powerful opponent. Not exactly any more powerful than Exar Kun, or Malgus. I certainly wouldn't want Force Drain to become a center of the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Actually Suirk and co did defeat Nihilus straight up. Odd that there is no mention of Nihilus trying to drain Meetra which resulted in him being severely weakened. Unless I remember something completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) Odd that there is no mention of Nihilus trying to drain Meetra which resulted in him being severely weakened. Unless I remember something completely wrong. No he did, but his defeat wasn't just cause of that. I mean its not like he tried to drain and then just fell over and died is what I mean, there was a fight. Edited July 10, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) No he did, but his defeat wasn't just cause of that. I mean its not like he tried to drain and then just fell over and died, is what I mean there was a fight. Well yes but my point was that if he hadn't tried to drain her due to his hunger, would he have lost? He did fall to his knees in agony though, IIRC. I must stress that I'm no expert on any of this. I'm just going by what I recall from the game and books that I've read. Edited July 10, 2013 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Well yes but my point was that if he hadn't tried to drain her due to his hunger, would he have lost? He did fall to his knees in agony though, IIRC. Well on that, dunno...though yes I do recall him falling to his knees but then he just rose back up and thus the fighting began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Well, maybe not OP, but the Force Drain thing is an issue. Alternatively, I could use this:Ha ha! Can't believe you remember that! Ah, those were the days. That said I'm not sure that's entirely true anymore, in light of this: "There are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense." What Kreia is likely implying here is that Force drain cannot be defended against through barriers etc. I'm guessing it can only be endured i.e. having big enough Force wells to not have your Force ability severed. And in turn the effectiveness of the attack is determined by the power and skill of the user, the more powerful and skillful I'd assume the greater Force energy you can drain. Which is why Nihilus drained Traya completely with little effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) Ha ha! Can't believe you remember that! Ah, those were the days. That said I'm not sure that's entirely true anymore, in light of this: "There are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense." What Kreia is likely implying here is that Force drain cannot be defended against through barriers etc. I'm guessing it can only be endured i.e. having big enough Force wells to not have your Force ability severed. And in turn the effectiveness of the attack is determined by the power and skill of the user, the more powerful and skillful I'd assume the greater Force energy you can drain. Which is why Nihilus drained Traya completely with little effort. There is a technquie to defend against drain. Remember the Dark Reaper?(Force sucking super weapon...unique for sure!) Ulic Qel Droma? Count Dooku? Anakin Skywalker? Ring any bells? Edited July 10, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I certainly wouldn't want Force Drain to become a center of the debate.Don't worry, it won't, my opponents will be crushed far to swiftly for that to happen. But hey, the BattleZone has to get started first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Don't worry, it won't, my opponents will be crushed far to swiftly for that to happen. But hey, the BattleZone has to get started first. Soon... No, seriously, I'm posting it tomorrow now that I finished the ROTS novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Ha ha! Can't believe you remember that! Ah, those were the days. I never forget a good debate. But you make an interesting point about Force Drain. I don't know, we'll see if her opponent can withstand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 But is this all just speculation? Or actual fact? I cant imagine the cause of the wound would make you inherently tied to it. Really the cause was the deaths of millions of people, which caused three wounds, Malachor, Meetra and Nihilus, but just because they have the same source doesn't mean they are connected. I mean killing Nihilus had no effect on her. There has to be some reason that unlike all other Force Users, she was merely very ill when she was attacking the Trayus Academy, instead of straight up dying on it's surface like any force user that didn't immediately turn to the Dark Side, her wound in the force seems to protect her from the most extreme effects. Months or maybe even a year later she is nearly killed just by walking on Nathema's surface and we then see her being far less efficient and powerful, to the point where she struggles with Imperial Guardsman and gets defeated easily despite having Scourge's help against Nyriss. I also can't agree with your assessment on the battle of the Trayus Academy, she fought continuously through groups of Sith ranging from Assassins, to Marauders, to Lords and then Sith Masters, then fights Darth Sion five times in a row and then faces Darth Traya herself and defeats her twice. Also the KotOR campaign guide states that she was extremely exhausted and basically drained of energy because of a very prolonged fight by the time she severs Traya's remaining hand as a distraction and according to the book, Traya's connection to the force is severed almost completely and then Traya summons her trio of Lightsabers as a last gasp attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I never forget a good debate. But you make an interesting point about Force Drain. I don't know, we'll see if her opponent can withstand it. /is gonna explode soon if there is no Battle thread soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 There is a technquie to defend against drain. Remember the Dark Reaper? Ulic Qel Droma? Anakin Skywalker? Ring any bells? Yes, do you think I'd leave any of Traya's weaknesses unnoticed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 There has to be some reason that unlike all other Force Users, she was merely very ill when she was attacking the Trayus Academy, instead of straight up dying on it's surface like any force user that didn't immediately turn to the Dark Side, her wound in the force seems to protect her from the most extreme effects. Months or maybe even a year later she is nearly killed just by walking on Nathema's surface and we then see her being far less efficient and powerful, to the point where she struggles with Imperial Guardsman and gets defeated easily despite having Scourge's help against Nyriss. I also can't agree with your assessment on the battle of the Trayus Academy, she fought continuously through groups of Sith ranging from Assassins, to Marauders, to Lords and then Sith Masters, then fights Darth Sion five times in a row and then faces Darth Traya herself and defeats her twice. Also the KotOR campaign guide states that she was extremely exhausted and basically drained of energy because of a very prolonged fight by the time she severs Traya's remaining hand as a distraction and according to the book, Traya's connection to the force is severed almost completely and then Traya summons her trio of Lightsabers as a last gasp attack.I suppose it makes the most sense. But one thing I never understood, how does severing Traya's hand sever her from the Force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) Yes, do you think I'd leave any of Traya's weaknesses unnoticed? Well just making sure since ya said, drain couldn't be defended against. But one thing I never understood, how does severing Traya's hand sever her from the Force? ITS ALL IN HER HANDS! Edited July 10, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 I suppose it makes the most sense. But one thing I never understood, how does severing Traya's hand sever her from the Force? Like I said, it was a distraction from her true attack which was to her force connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 ITS ALL IN HER HANDS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Like I said, it was a distraction from her true attack which was to her force connection.Oh so she weakened her then just used sever force? Guess that makes sense. Kinda a random addition though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 You make a good point about Revan though. But wait, does that mean experiencing a moment of oneness permanently strengthened Revan's connection to the Force? I don't know. Are you saying he could possibly draw on that energy like Jacen did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 Oh so she weakened her then just used sever force? Guess that makes sense. Kinda a random addition though... Well Kreia doesn't need her hands to attack you, she has proven that many times, severing her connection to the force was the best way to make sure she didn't keep attacking and it also means the Exile doesn't have to kill her either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts