Abilities hitting through shroud breaks the current state of PvP

[L-RANDLE]

You cannot Flashbang someone through Force Shroud because it is a Tech Attack. If you do Flash Bang someone through Force Shroud then it is either lag or a bug. If you don't believe me go try it.

 

/End Thread

 

Now you want to end the thread.

 

LOL the video and effects details backs up all my statements. Do you want a link to the effect details?

 

Where is your video and effect details showing it is indeed a tech attack?

Zero cc immunity, not classified as force/tech... Must be bugged.....

[foxmob]

FB still uses tech accuracy.

 

The things that do not use either force or tech accuracy while being CCs are low slash mezz, ambush knockback, roots from: legshot, force charge, obliterate, deadly throw.

 

can I be the first (in this thread) to point out the inherent irony that an effect caused by FORCE charge is not a force ability?

[DimeStax]

Now you want to end the thread.

 

LOL the video and effects details backs up all my statements. Do you want a link to the effect details?

 

Where is your video and effect details showing it is indeed a tech attack?

Zero cc immunity, not classified as force/tech... Must be bugged.....

 

No, I'll post the Effect Details for you.

 

Here is Force Shroud:

Effect Subeffect Type Text

1 0 init SetDescription: Description=>""

1 0 init SetDuration: MaxDuration=>3000, Duration=>3000, Toughness=>1

1 0 init SetStackLimit: MaxStackCount=>1, IsPerCaster=>1

1 1 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.sith_inquisitor.force_shroud.cast

1 2 action ModifyStat: AmountMin=>2, Stat=>Tech Defense, AmountMax=>2

1 2 action Dispel

1 2 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.sith_inquisitor.force_shroud.target

 

Here is Cryo Grenade:

Effect Subeffect Type Text

1 0 init SetHidden: IsHidden=>1

1 1 action InvokeProjectile: SpellType=>None, Slot=>PrimaryMelee, TravelSpeed=>3

1 1 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.trooper.cryoban_grenade.cast

1 2 action CallEffect: ResultsOption_CombatMathOnly=>1, FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>2

2 0 init SetDescription: Description=>""

2 0 init SetDuration: MaxDuration=>4000, Duration=>4000, Toughness=>1

2 0 init SetName: Name=>""

2 0 init SetIcon: IconSpec=>stunned

2 1 action Stun

2 1 action PlayAppearance: DependentOnCallingEffect=>1, AppearanceSpec=>epp.trooper.cryoban_grenade.target

 

Here is Dirty Kick:

Effect Subeffect Type Text

1 1 action CallEffect: ResultsOption_CombatMathOnly=>1, FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>2, Results=>[ 63,32,1 ]

1 1 action SpellDamage: SpellType=>Tech, StandardHealthPercentMin=>0.04, Slot=>None, StandardHealthPercentMax=>0.04, AmountModifierPercent=>0.01, DamageType=>Kinetic

1 1 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.smuggler.dirty_kick

2 0 init SetDescription: Description=>"Unable to act."

2 0 init SetDuration: MaxDuration=>3000, Duration=>3000, Toughness=>1

2 0 init SetType: BuffType=>Negative

2 0 init SetName: Name=>"Stunned"

2 0 init SetStackLimit: MaxStackCount=>1, IsPerCaster=>1

2 0 init SetIcon: IconSpec=>stunned

2 1 action Stun

2 1 action PlayAppearance: DependentOnCallingEffect=>1, AppearanceSpec=>epp.smuggler.dirty_kick_sparklies

 

and now here is Flash Bang:

Effect Subeffect Type Text

1 0 init SetType: BuffType=>Negative

1 0 init SetHidden: IsHidden=>1

1 1 action InvokeProjectile: SpellType=>None, Slot=>PrimaryMelee, TravelSpeed=>2.5, IsSpecialAbility=>1

1 1 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.agent.flash_bang.cast_instant_far

1 2 action InvokeProjectile: SpellType=>None, Slot=>PrimaryMelee, TravelSpeed=>2.5, IsSpecialAbility=>1

1 2 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.agent.flash_bang.cast_instant_med

1 3 action InvokeProjectile: SpellType=>None, Slot=>PrimaryMelee, TravelSpeed=>2.5, IsSpecialAbility=>1

1 3 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.agent.flash_bang.cast_instant_short

1 4 action CallEffect: FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>2

2 0 init SetDescription: Description=>""

2 0 init SetDuration: MaxDuration=>8000, Duration=>8000, Toughness=>1

2 0 init SetType: BuffType=>Negative

2 0 init SetName: Name=>""

2 0 init SetStackLimit: MaxStackCount=>1, IsPerCaster=>1

2 0 init SetIcon: IconSpec=>blinded

2 1 action Stun

2 1 action MarkAsNeutralized

2 1 action ModifyThreat: AmountMin=>1

2 1 action PlayAppearance: DependentOnCallingEffect=>1, AppearanceSpec=>epp.smuggler.flash_grenade.blinded

2 2 action RemoveEffect

2 3 action CallEffect: FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>3

3 0 init SetDescription: Description=>""

3 0 init SetDuration: MaxDuration=>8000, Duration=>8000, Toughness=>1

3 0 init SetName: Name=>""

3 0 init SetStackLimit: MaxStackCount=>1, IsPerCaster=>1

3 0 init SetIcon: IconSpec=>accuracyreduced

3 1 action ModifyStat: MaxStackCount=>1, AmountMin=>-0.2, Stat=>Ranged Accuracy, AmountMax=>-0.2

3 2 action ModifyStat: MaxStackCount=>1, AmountMin=>-0.1, Stat=>Ranged Accuracy, AmountMax=>-0.1

 

So you see, ALL CC's are Active types because basically any attack you click is an Active type, and a few of them don't have a spell type listed as Tech even though they are (Like in Cryo Grenade above).

 

The video shows a BUG, ie. NOT WORKING AS INTENDED, that's why he posted it. Normally, Force Shroud would prevent Flash Bang. God you're such a noob.

[Morde_]

Now you want to end the thread.

 

LOL the video and effects details backs up all my statements. Do you want a link to the effect details?

 

Where is your video and effect details showing it is indeed a tech attack?

Zero cc immunity, not classified as force/tech... Must be bugged.....

 

Don't you get tired of being wrong all the time?

Edited July 11, 2013 by Morde_

[Bzziki]

when i use FS, the tooltip on my defense resist show 210% for tech and force.

Idk why u talking about accuracy

[L-RANDLE]

So maybe cyro grenade has an issue or for that matter maybe flash has an issue. Which means it has nothing to do with shroud being bugged...

 

 

Someone post a video where it don't work and ill conceed... Im holding my breath so hurry up....

[funkiestj]

You cannot Flashbang someone through Force Shroud because it is a Tech Attack. If you do Flash Bang someone through Force Shroud then it is either lag or a bug. If you don't believe me go try it.

 

/End Thread

 

In post #75 I documented my experiment where flash grenade gets through resilience 4 times out of 60 trials. My test procedure guaranteed that lag was not a factor. 4/60 = 6.6% which is close to the rumored 5% guaranteed failure rate for resilience mentioned by others.

 

I also tried dirty kick (tech) a few times and it got through.

[DimeStax]

In post #75 I documented my experiment where flash grenade gets through resilience 4 times out of 60 trials. My test procedure guaranteed that lag was not a factor. 4/60 = 6.6% which is close to the rumored 5% guaranteed failure rate for resilience mentioned by others.

 

I also tried dirty kick (tech) a few times and it got through.

 

It needs to be fixed then, because Scoundrels cannot be hit through Dodge, and Sages can't be hit through Force Barrier in which case the 5% chance to hit thing should go through. It makes no sense to have an ability work 95% of the time when it clearly says it's supposed to work 100% of the time.

Edited July 11, 2013 by DimeStax

[funkiestj]

I agree, it needs to be fixed. Resilience failing 5% of the time in PvP is a stupid mechanic. (No comment on PvE)

 

I have never heard of Force Barrier (20,000% resistance) failing so apparently it is not as hard to fix as the dev post cited says.

[Morde_]

Thanks for the reporting, folks. Now we keep this bumped and hope for a reply.

 

If this isn't addressed by the time the 'class representatives' are nominated, I should hope they raise this issue first and foremost.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Morde_

[Gondolindhrim]

I agree, it needs to be fixed. Resilience failing 5% of the time in PvP is a stupid mechanic. (No comment on PvE)

It's awful for both PvE and PvP, definitely needs a fix. I tried getting through Force Barrier with no success after

about 200 attempted attacks, so that seems to work fine.

[Kreapen]

Agreed, would love to see a yellow response.

[sithloardbob]

Yeah a yellow post would be nice.... they need to fix it honestly... last night in RWZ's on huttball i got awed through shroud... and i also force pulled and stunned someone back to back through force shroud....t

[Zunayson]

It needs to be fixed then, because Scoundrels cannot be hit through Dodge, and Sages can't be hit through Force Barrier in which case the 5% chance to hit thing should go through. It makes no sense to have an ability work 95% of the time when it clearly says it's supposed to work 100% of the time.

 

I've takedown'ed an operative over his evasion. no Target Acquired.

[xContex]

I really don't want to read through 12 pages of posts however I will say this. Maybe the issue isn't entirely shroud but more specifically flash bang. When I looked up the difference between a known force attack "Force Scream" vs. "Flash Bang" and looked under effects I got this.

 

Force Scream

 

1 0 init SetHidden: IsHidden=>1

1 1 action InvokeProjectile: SpellType=>None, Slot=>PrimaryMelee, TravelSpeed=>2

1 1 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.sith_warrior.force_scream.force_scream_real

1 2 action SpellDamage: SpellType=>Force, StandardHealthPercentMin=>0.167, Slot=>None, Coefficient=>1.87, StandardHealthPercentMax=>0.207, AmountModifierPercent=>0.01, DamageType=>Kinetic

1 3 action CallEffect: ResultsOption_CombatMathOnly=>1, FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>2, Results=>[ 63,32,1 ]

2 0 init SetDescription: Description=>""

2 0 init SetDuration: MaxDuration=>4000, Duration=>4000, Toughness=>1

2 0 init SetType: BuffType=>Negative

2 0 init SetStackLimit: MaxStackCount=>1, IsPerCaster=>1

2 0 init SetName: Name=>""

2 0 init SetIcon: IconSpec=>stunned

2 1 action Stun

2 1 action PlayAppearance: DependentOnCallingEffect=>1, AppearanceSpec=>epp.sith_warrior.intimidating_roar.target

 

 

Flash Bang

 

1 0 init SetType: BuffType=>Negative

1 0 init SetHidden: IsHidden=>1

1 1 action InvokeProjectile: SpellType=>None, Slot=>PrimaryMelee, TravelSpeed=>2.5, IsSpecialAbility=>1

1 1 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.agent.flash_bang.cast_instant_far

1 2 action InvokeProjectile: SpellType=>None, Slot=>PrimaryMelee, TravelSpeed=>2.5, IsSpecialAbility=>1

1 2 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.agent.flash_bang.cast_instant_med

1 3 action InvokeProjectile: SpellType=>None, Slot=>PrimaryMelee, TravelSpeed=>2.5, IsSpecialAbility=>1

1 3 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.agent.flash_bang.cast_instant_short

1 4 action CallEffect: FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>2

2 0 init SetDescription: Description=>""

2 0 init SetDuration: MaxDuration=>8000, Duration=>8000, Toughness=>1

2 0 init SetType: BuffType=>Negative

2 0 init SetName: Name=>""

2 0 init SetStackLimit: MaxStackCount=>1, IsPerCaster=>1

2 0 init SetIcon: IconSpec=>blinded

2 1 action Stun

2 1 action MarkAsNeutralized

2 1 action ModifyThreat: AmountMin=>1

2 1 action PlayAppearance: DependentOnCallingEffect=>1, AppearanceSpec=>epp.smuggler.flash_grenade.blinded

2 2 action RemoveEffect

2 3 action CallEffect: FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>3

3 0 init SetDescription: Description=>""

3 0 init SetDuration: MaxDuration=>8000, Duration=>8000, Toughness=>1

3 0 init SetName: Name=>""

3 0 init SetStackLimit: MaxStackCount=>1, IsPerCaster=>1

3 0 init SetIcon: IconSpec=>accuracyreduced

3 1 action ModifyStat: MaxStackCount=>1, AmountMin=>-0.2, Stat=>Ranged Accuracy, AmountMax=>-0.2

3 2 action ModifyStat: MaxStackCount=>1, AmountMin=>-0.1, Stat=>Ranged Accuracy, AmountMax=>-0.1

 

 

I am completely on the side of this thing needs to be fixed. RNG does not belong in rated warzones. In this game it is, however its usage should be severely limited. I was on Waka's stream that night watching that game specifically and saw what happened. Personally I don't think it should of happened however by looking at how the game is actually coded it looks like the issue is more with the flash bang than shroud. Again I do not have an Assassin/Shadow and do not know how frequent these occurrences happen. I am simply going off of what Torhead is telling me which I am also assuming is legit.

Edited July 11, 2013 by xContex

[funkiestj]

I really don't want to read through 12 pages of posts however I will say this. Maybe the issue isn't entirely shroud but more specifically flash bang. When I looked up the difference between a known force attack "Force Scream" vs. "Flash Bang" and looked under effects I got this.

.

 

during my testing I did a few trials with dirty kick, which is explicitly listed as a tech attack. Dirty Kick also gets through resilience now and then. I'm willing to bet awe and force stasis (choke) get through about 5% of the time too.

 

The fact that damage attacks sometimes get through is not nearly so huge in PvP as when CC attacks bypass resilience / force shroud.

[foxmob]

Thanks for the reporting, folks. Now we keep this bumped and hope for a reply.

 

If this isn't addressed by the time the 'class representatives' are nominated, I should hope they raise this issue first and foremost.

 

also remember to vote for the thread...for whatever it's worth. /shrug

[DimeStax]

also remember to vote for the thread...for whatever it's worth. /shrug

 

We're voting for threads now too? Geez, when did the forums get so political?

[OldSpiceSwag]

to the top

[foxmob]

We're voting for threads now too? Geez, when did the forums get so political?

 

rate = vote

[JP_Legatus]

So maybe cyro grenade has an issue or for that matter maybe flash has an issue. Which means it has nothing to do with shroud being bugged...

 

 

Someone post a video where it don't work and ill conceed... Im holding my breath so hurry up....

 

It's a good thing forums don't include an IQ test as a requirement for contributing so we can see wonderful gems like these scattered throughout the threads

[JP_Legatus]

I really don't want to read through 12 pages of posts however I will say this. Maybe the issue isn't entirely shroud but more specifically flash bang. When I looked up the difference between a known force attack "Force Scream" vs. "Flash Bang" and looked under effects I got this.

 

Force Scream

 

1 0 init SetHidden: IsHidden=>1

1 1 action InvokeProjectile: SpellType=>None, Slot=>PrimaryMelee, TravelSpeed=>2

1 1 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.sith_warrior.force_scream.force_scream_real

1 2 action SpellDamage: SpellType=>Force, StandardHealthPercentMin=>0.167, Slot=>None, Coefficient=>1.87, StandardHealthPercentMax=>0.207, AmountModifierPercent=>0.01, DamageType=>Kinetic

1 3 action CallEffect: ResultsOption_CombatMathOnly=>1, FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>2, Results=>[ 63,32,1 ]

2 0 init SetDescription: Description=>""

2 0 init SetDuration: MaxDuration=>4000, Duration=>4000, Toughness=>1

2 0 init SetType: BuffType=>Negative

2 0 init SetStackLimit: MaxStackCount=>1, IsPerCaster=>1

2 0 init SetName: Name=>""

2 0 init SetIcon: IconSpec=>stunned

2 1 action Stun

2 1 action PlayAppearance: DependentOnCallingEffect=>1, AppearanceSpec=>epp.sith_warrior.intimidating_roar.target

 

 

Flash Bang

 

1 0 init SetType: BuffType=>Negative

1 0 init SetHidden: IsHidden=>1

1 1 action InvokeProjectile: SpellType=>None, Slot=>PrimaryMelee, TravelSpeed=>2.5, IsSpecialAbility=>1

1 1 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.agent.flash_bang.cast_instant_far

1 2 action InvokeProjectile: SpellType=>None, Slot=>PrimaryMelee, TravelSpeed=>2.5, IsSpecialAbility=>1

1 2 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.agent.flash_bang.cast_instant_med

1 3 action InvokeProjectile: SpellType=>None, Slot=>PrimaryMelee, TravelSpeed=>2.5, IsSpecialAbility=>1

1 3 action PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.agent.flash_bang.cast_instant_short

1 4 action CallEffect: FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>2

2 0 init SetDescription: Description=>""

2 0 init SetDuration: MaxDuration=>8000, Duration=>8000, Toughness=>1

2 0 init SetType: BuffType=>Negative

2 0 init SetName: Name=>""

2 0 init SetStackLimit: MaxStackCount=>1, IsPerCaster=>1

2 0 init SetIcon: IconSpec=>blinded

2 1 action Stun

2 1 action MarkAsNeutralized

2 1 action ModifyThreat: AmountMin=>1

2 1 action PlayAppearance: DependentOnCallingEffect=>1, AppearanceSpec=>epp.smuggler.flash_grenade.blinded

2 2 action RemoveEffect

2 3 action CallEffect: FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>3

3 0 init SetDescription: Description=>""

3 0 init SetDuration: MaxDuration=>8000, Duration=>8000, Toughness=>1

3 0 init SetName: Name=>""

3 0 init SetStackLimit: MaxStackCount=>1, IsPerCaster=>1

3 0 init SetIcon: IconSpec=>accuracyreduced

3 1 action ModifyStat: MaxStackCount=>1, AmountMin=>-0.2, Stat=>Ranged Accuracy, AmountMax=>-0.2

3 2 action ModifyStat: MaxStackCount=>1, AmountMin=>-0.1, Stat=>Ranged Accuracy, AmountMax=>-0.1

 

 

I am completely on the side of this thing needs to be fixed. RNG does not belong in rated warzones. In this game it is, however its usage should be severely limited. I was on Waka's stream that night watching that game specifically and saw what happened. Personally I don't think it should of happened however by looking at how the game is actually coded it looks like the issue is more with the flash bang than shroud. Again I do not have an Assassin/Shadow and do not know how frequent these occurrences happen. I am simply going off of what Torhead is telling me which I am also assuming is legit.

 

Every move in the game is either melee, ranged, force, or tech. If torhead or your ability window doesn't say which type your ability is, it's a mistake.

 

In this case flash bang is a tech ability. I know torhead and your ability window says it's active and "none". I have both classes, I know how the game works. Flash bang going through shroud is a bug and a rare occuring one at that. All you need to do is read the damn thread to see examples of people testing it on shroud.

Edited July 11, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[JP_Legatus]

I did the above and saw resilience fail several times. I used my wife's gunslinger (105% tech accuracy) vs my tank spec shadow (5 sec resilience, 202% resistance on character sheet when resilience is active).

 

Here is the record I kept of resilience vs flash grenade (+ resilience won, - flash grenade won)

 

 

++ +++, ++ +++,

++ +++, ++ +++,

 

++ +++, ++ +++,

+- +++, ++ +++,

++ ++-, ++ +++,

::

++ +-+, +- +++,

 

as you can see, 4 times out of 60, flash grenade bypassed resilience. I have a video of one of the flash grenades winning. I can post it if needed.

 

So, it is pretty clear that Bioware math has: 105% - 202% > 0% instead of the expected -97% (no chance)

 

I also tried dirty kick and saw it get through. I presume all other force / tech attacks can get through.

 

And here's the demonstration for the people who are actually retarded enough to think flash bang is somehow exempt from the ability type rule.

[xContex]

Every move in the game is either melee, ranged, force, or tech. If torhead or your ability window doesn't say which type your ability is, it's a mistake.

 

In this case flash bang is a tech ability. I know torhead and your ability window says it's active and "none". I have both classes, I know how the game works. Flash bang going through shroud is a bug and a rare occuring one at that. All you need to do is read the damn thread to see examples of people testing it on shroud.

 

Lol sounds like you're mad. That's fine. I agreed that something needed to change. Instead of reading what you want to see. Try to spend more energy actually comprehending what I am trying to say.

 

And here's the demonstration for the people who are actually retarded enough to think flash bang is somehow exempt from the ability type rule.

umad brah? Sounds like you mad.

Edited July 12, 2013 by xContex

[stephenalandavie]

There is already a yellow post out there about this and it stated regardless of any stats or how much shroud resists for everyone still has a 0.5% I think it was to hit.