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Abilities hitting through shroud breaks the current state of PvP

EatenByDistance

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JP_Legatus

JP_Legatus

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No.. It means I know how the game mechanics work.

Force Shroud has no immunity mezzes. He situationally broke without full resolve and got flashed. On top of that, Flash is not even classified as a force or tech attack, so there is no roll in the "chance to hit" calc of accuracy/resistance.

 

Dare I say L2Understandmechanics/L2P? You would think the Bastion elite would know these basic things.......:rolleyes: smh

inb4 I get flamed for that one; tongue/cheek

 

 

Shroud has been stopping mezzes for the last year and a half, clearly the one with the L2P issue is yourself, because you obviously have no idea about anything related to nodeguarding.

Edited by JP_Legatus
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JP_Legatus

JP_Legatus

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Out of all the things wrong with this game, you pick force shroud?

 

QQ

 

Rated game lost because node guard got mezzed through shroud is obviously a big issue. I'm not sure what issue you think is bigger than losing rated games because of RNG mechanics that aren't supposed to be RNG.

Edited by JP_Legatus
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funkiestj

funkiestj

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Also, how about some folks do some tests with CC vs resilience. and report back how many iterations of the test they ran and the results.

 

test procedure

  • spec shadow (assassin) tank for 5 second resil
  • shadow pops resilience
  • attacker waits 1 second after he sees resilience
  • attacker uses CC on Mr. resil that should be blocked.

.

 

I did the above and saw resilience fail several times. I used my wife's gunslinger (105% tech accuracy) vs my tank spec shadow (5 sec resilience, 202% resistance on character sheet when resilience is active).

 

Here is the record I kept of resilience vs flash grenade (+ resilience won, - flash grenade won)

 

 

++ +++, ++ +++,

++ +++, ++ +++,

 

++ +++, ++ +++,

+- +++, ++ +++,

++ ++-, ++ +++,

::

++ +-+, +- +++,

 

as you can see, 4 times out of 60, flash grenade bypassed resilience.

 

EDIT: here is a

showing flashbang getting through resilience.

 

So, it is pretty clear that Bioware math has: 105% - 202% > 0% instead of the expected -97% (no chance)

 

I also tried dirty kick and saw it get through. I presume all other force / tech attacks can get through.

Edited by funkiestj
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funkiestj

funkiestj

Posted
Posted
Rated game lost because node guard got mezzed through shroud is obviously a big issue. I'm not sure what issue you think is bigger than losing rated games because of RNG mechanics that aren't supposed to be RNG.

 

that idiot troll got snap added to my ignore list. I don't mind witty trolls but he didn't pass the test.

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CBRGhostRider

CBRGhostRider

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There has been plenty of discussion about this in various forums. But Bioware continues to deny it...

 

You guys should see this thread on the tanking forums.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=636284

 

It seems shroud sometimes randomly ends before it is supposed to end. Here is a combat log from that thread. The poster is a tank w/ 5 sec shroud, in this log, it fell off after 2.6 seconds. Something is definitely fishy...

…
19:19:43.736 Tam activates Resilience.
19:19:43.736 Tam gains Resilience.
…
19:19:46.368 Tam loses Resilience.
…
19:19:46.380 Titan 6's Huge Grenade hits Tam for 29789 energy damage, causing 29789 threat.
19:19:46.380 Titan 6 kills Tam.

 

And in this log it fell off after 2.3 sec.

19:53:55.796 Tam activates Resilience.
19:53:55.796 Tam gains Resilience.
...
19:53:58.074 Tam loses Resilience.
...
19:53:58.086 Operations Chief's Terminate hits Tam for 32360 energy damage, causing 32360 threat.
19:53:58.086 Operations Chief kills Tam.

 

The BW rep made a post by way of explanation in that thread, but fails to explain why shroud falls off like that in the combat log. I'm guessing that the actual effect falls off, but the animation continues to play, making it seem like we are getting hit through shroud. In reality, some bug has probably cause shroud to fall off early...

Edited by CBRGhostRider
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JP_Legatus

JP_Legatus

Posted
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There has been plenty of discussion about this in various forums. But Bioware continues to deny it...

 

You guys should see this thread on the tanking forums.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=636284

 

It seems shroud sometimes randomly ends before it is supposed to end. Here is a combat log from that thread. The poster is a tank w/ 5 sec shroud, in this log, it fell off after 2.6 seconds. Something is definitely fishy...

…
19:19:43.736 Tam activates Resilience.
19:19:43.736 Tam gains Resilience.
…
19:19:46.368 Tam loses Resilience.
…
19:19:46.380 Titan 6's Huge Grenade hits Tam for 29789 energy damage, causing 29789 threat.
19:19:46.380 Titan 6 kills Tam.

 

And in this log it fell off after 2.3 sec.

19:53:55.796 Tam activates Resilience.
19:53:55.796 Tam gains Resilience.
...
19:53:58.074 Tam loses Resilience.
...
19:53:58.086 Operations Chief's Terminate hits Tam for 32360 energy damage, causing 32360 threat.
19:53:58.086 Operations Chief kills Tam.

 

The BW rep made a post by way of explanation in that thread, but fails to explain why shroud falls off like that in the combat log. I'm guessing that the actual effect falls off, but the animation continues to play, making it seem like we are getting hit through shroud. In reality, some bug has probably cause shroud to fall off early...

 

I posted a combat log (and I've seen others posted as well) where shroud was still active when a force/tech attack caused damage, so the theory unfortunately doesn't work.

Also, bioware's employee "explanation" is just nonsense, I wouldn't bother worrying about that post as it's obviously bs.

 

What does strike me about this is that I've never encountered this particular bug with shroud where it falls off early, I'm guessing this is a new "feature" the sniper dev added to the game :p

Edited by JP_Legatus
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funkiestj

funkiestj

Posted
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It seems shroud sometimes randomly ends before it is supposed to end. Here is a combat log from that thread. The poster is a tank w/ 5 sec shroud, in this log, it fell off after 2.6 seconds. Something is definitely fishy...

 

In

(currently uploading), I pop a 5 second resil and it lasts the expected duration. My duel opponent does flash grenade about 2 seconds after resilience is activated.

 

I'm not saying "it never ends early" but if it does, that is a different issue than it not preventing force/tech attacks with less than 200% accuracy.

 

EDIT: sorry, I didn't read your post closely the first time. Yeah, I see the animation continue in my vid but I didn't look at the corresponding logs.

Edited by funkiestj
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Gondolindhrim

Gondolindhrim

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Second, here's a list of abilities that work properly and are similar in effect to shroud:

Evasion (though it's not total immunity it's just 100% dodge)

Blade turning (Jugg passive that makes saber ward work like evasion for 2s)

Force barrier

Hydraulic overrides

Covered escape

Entrench

Fadeout (sorc talent that adds immunity onto force speed)

Saber reflect (doesn't grant effect immunity but I've never seen reflect fail to reflect the damage)

Unstoppable (jugg immunity talent)

The abilities marked in red don't work quite the same way. These are more similar to Resolve, as they don't increase Defense/Resist and incoming attacks will still land, you just don't get the secondary effect (i.e. CC). Saber Reflect absorbs all incoming damage and reflects the same value back to the attacker.

You're right about the others though, and I haven't seen any reports of these abilities failing.

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JP_Legatus

JP_Legatus

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The abilities marked in red don't work quite the same way. These are more similar to Resolve, as they don't increase Defense/Resist and incoming attacks will still land, you just don't get the secondary effect (i.e. CC). Saber Reflect absorbs all incoming damage and reflects the same value back to the attacker.

You're right about the others though, and I haven't seen any reports of these abilities failing.

 

The fact that they are mechanically different doesn't mean some should work and others should not. The abilities listed all can prevent cc of some kind and all of them work as intended except for shroud.

Edited by JP_Legatus
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BambulaGTS

BambulaGTS

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I'm not sure where you're going with your line of reasoning, since most of the red abilities you listed operate similarly to shroud in that they prevent stuns or controlling effects of some kind, which is really what you're worried about, not the damage. I don't think you'll find any sins who say they primarily use force shroud to block incoming damage, that's more of an optional perk if you choose to use it to avoid a smash or something and eat a stun later. Mostly though you are using shroud to prevent stuns so you can grab a huttball, cross a fire trap, or defend a node while people are trying to stun you.

They do operate differently from a mechanics viewpoint but the end effect of being immune to the control is the same.

 

In any event, you are right that the abilities all work differently and that may be part of the reason why some work and some don't, but in this case it's ONE ability that doesn't work and ZERO other abilities from either your red category or non-highlighted categories that fail to work as intended.

 

The abilities marked "red" work different way. Rather than raise dodge/resist, they apply "immunity". You can see it on torhead datamining from game client.

 

Typical string: GrantImmunity: DamageType=>None

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JP_Legatus

JP_Legatus

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The abilities marked "red" work different way. Rather than raise dodge/resist, they apply "immunity". You can see it on torhead datamining from game client.

 

Typical string: GrantImmunity: DamageType=>None

 

You replied while I was still editing my post. Most of what I wrote was redundant so I deleted all of it.

Point is, all those abilities work and shroud does not. It doesn't matter if they're mechanically different, what you're saying is like saying smash should work and flashbang shouldn't because smash does damage too. It's irrelevant, they both need to work. The abilities listed all prevent cc and shroud fails to do so regularly. Nobody cares how it's programmed or why it's broken, it just needs to work.

Edited by JP_Legatus
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Gondolindhrim

Gondolindhrim

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The fact that they are mechanically different doesn't mean some should work and others should not. The abilities listed all can prevent cc of some kind and all of them work as intended except for shroud.

This I completely agree with. This alleged 5% hit floor needs to go.

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jibboo

jibboo

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All I know is that it worked 100% of the time prior to 1.4.

 

If it wasn't supposed to work like that, an official Dev response or patch note claiming to have "fixed" it should have been released.

 

It has been almost a years worth of bug reports and threads about this issue and up until that blip/BS from the dev a couple weeks ago, there hasn't been any acknowledgement of the issue.

 

At this point, I've just thrown this into the pile of issues that will never get resolved due to the POS game engine and dev incompetence/laziness.

 

I mean, just look at the animation for Overload. What a pile of crap that turned into when they removed the AOE knockback from it.

 

This is far from a well polished game, and it will never, ever get to that point. You should know this by now if you've been playing longer than a month. Accept it or move on.

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beattlebilly

beattlebilly

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Quick, dumb question here:

 

I'm looking at my baby scoundrel's abilities in the abilities tab(P). Dirty Kick is listed as "Tech". Flash Grenade is listed as "Active".

 

http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/198/t3y1.jpg

 

 

 

Now I'm looking at my Sin, and Force Shroud says it raises the resistance to Force and Tech attacks.

 

Is Flash Grenade a tech attack, even if it's listed as "Active" in the abilities tabs? Are all CC abilities Force(if it's Jedi or Sith) or Tech(if it's BH/Trooper, Smuggler/Imperial Agent), even if they aren't listed as that in the abilities tab?

Edited by beattlebilly
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DimeStax

DimeStax

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There are only 4 types of abilities in t his game: Melee/Range and Force/Tech.

 

The fact that it is listed as an "Active" ability type only means that you have to click it to use it and it is not "Passive."

- http://www.swtor.com/gamemanual/how-to-play/abilities-panel

 

Every ability you have to click to use is an Active ability, and attacks on other players are either Melee/Range or Force/Tech.

 

That being said Flash Bang is most definitely a Tech ability, and this is certainly a bug that needs to be addressed.

Edited by DimeStax
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beattlebilly

beattlebilly

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Posted
There are only 4 types of abilities in t his game: Melee/Range and Force/Tech.

 

The fact that it is listed as an "Active" ability type only means that you have to click it to use it and it is not "Passive."

- http://www.swtor.com/gamemanual/how-to-play/abilities-panel

 

Every ability you have to click to use is an Active ability, and attacks on other players are either Melee/Range or Force/Tech.

 

That being said Flash Bang is most definitely a Tech ability, and this is certainly a bug that needs to be addressed.

 

Thanks Dime. I guess since they don't actually do damage, they didn't think to say what the ability falls under LOL I just noticed the same thing on Merc's Concussion Missile, it's listed as "Active", but I'm pretty sure I've been unable to concuss someone with Force Shroud on.

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Zunayson

Zunayson

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There are only 4 types of abilities in t his game: Melee/Range and Force/Tech.

 

The fact that it is listed as an "Active" ability type only means that you have to click it to use it and it is not "Passive."

- http://www.swtor.com/gamemanual/how-to-play/abilities-panel

 

Every ability you have to click to use is an Active ability, and attacks on other players are either Melee/Range or Force/Tech.

 

That being said Flash Bang is most definitely a Tech ability, and this is certainly a bug that needs to be addressed.

 

If its tech it should say tech.

 

It doesn't. This is either an oversight from some time long ago in the game when it wasn't considered tech, or something else is up. I've never FB'd someone with shroud ever, so I know it counts as a tech attack.

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L-RANDLE

L-RANDLE

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If its tech it should say tech.

 

It doesn't. This is either an oversight from some time long ago in the game when it wasn't considered tech, or something else is up. I've never FB'd someone with shroud ever, so I know it counts as a tech attack.

 

 

 

 

 

It's not a tech attack... Effect details on torhead had it as "spell type= none" and slotted as "primary melee". So how is shroud not working?

 

 

The farce is strong with this one....

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Zunayson

Zunayson

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It's not a tech attack... Effect details on torhead had it as "spell type= none" and slotted as "primary melee". So how is shroud not working?

 

 

The farce is strong with this one....

 

Well I've never FB'd someone with shroud. Mainly because I think it doesn't work :p

 

For the sake of balance, though, I believe that cryo grenade, flash bang, carbonize, cover pulse, and the pulls should work since they're considered active abilities.

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L-RANDLE

L-RANDLE

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Well I've never FB'd someone with shroud. Mainly because I think it doesn't work :p

 

For the sake of balance, though, I believe that cryo grenade, flash bang, carbonize, cover pulse, and the pulls should work since they're considered active abilities.

As long as there are no spell types attached to those specific things, sure... Torhead is a good source to find out what works and what doesn't...

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DimeStax

DimeStax

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As long as there are no spell types attached to those specific things, sure... Torhead is a good source to find out what works and what doesn't...

 

You cannot Flashbang someone through Force Shroud because it is a Tech Attack. If you do Flash Bang someone through Force Shroud then it is either lag or a bug. If you don't believe me go try it.

 

/End Thread

Edited by DimeStax
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L-RANDLE

L-RANDLE

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You cannot Flashbang someone through Force Shroud because it is a Tech Attack. If you do Flash Bang someone through Force Shroud then it is either lag or a bug. If you don't believe me go try it.

 

/End Thread

 

Now you want to end the thread.

 

LOL the video and effects details backs up all my statements. Do you want a link to the effect details?

 

Where is your video and effect details showing it is indeed a tech attack?

Zero cc immunity, not classified as force/tech... Must be bugged.....:rolleyes:

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