Jump to content

Hybrid DPS Powertech Explained


Recommended Posts

So, I thought I would repost this here for our benefit. If you look over on the Dummy Parse thread this is currently the spec that seems to have the most "potential" for DPS. I am currently working through it myself to see what I can do with it, but wanted to share with others who maybe don't check out both threads. This post is a direct quote, however I have switched out the names of abilities for my powertech brothers so as to be less confusing. All credit goes to MoJozor (Thoric).

 

Guide Start: (original)

----------------------------------------------------

I decided to make this thread since there are quite a few people asking me on forums and in-game about how the hybrid works.

 

Please bear with me as this is my first Guide and maybe everything will not be as clear as i wanted to be, so any suggestions or mentioning things that you don't understand well enough will be more than welcome.

 

Hybrid 2/22/22 : http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301bZrsMrobRMZfG0rzRr.3

Hybrid 8/22/16 : http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZrsMrobRMZfG0rzo.3

 

In order to understand the hybrid rotation we need to start from the most basic Pyro Spec rotation.

Since this has already been done in a very comprehensive thread, i urge anyone interested in learning hybrid to start by reading Suryi's thread An uncomfortably close look at Assault PvE DPS Rotation (and Specs) (Editor's Comment: I am not converting this guide, the original Pyro rotation should be well known by now to most in these parts if you need help with this please ask)

I know it is alot to read and it talks about the Pryo/Assault pre 2.0 but i do recommend it.

 

A small legend before starting:

PPA - Prototype Particle Accelerator

RS - Rail Shot

FB - Flame Burst

RP - Rocket Punch

Rapid - Rapid Shots

RB - Retractable Blade

IM - Incendiary Missile

GCD - Global Cooldown

 

Having said that i will extract the things which i find the most important to understand this thread:

 

1) Understanding the 4 GCD rule:

FB/RP (Procs PPA) --GCD1-- RS (free) --GCD2-- ABILITY1 --GCD3-- ABILITY2 --GCD4-- FB/RP (Procs PPA) ---

As you can see you have 2 spare abilities between PPA procs that you can use or a 3 sec channel one : Flame Thrower

 

2) Pyro is RNG(luck) based and as such a rigid priority list is suboptimal

What ability you will do next depends of a variety of things:

- how much heat you have

- what dots are applied on the target

- At what step from the 4GCD you find yourself in or out of it (Unlucky PPA proc)

 

3) What to do with those 2 spare Abilities that we have between PPA procs

 

And this is where we begin the talk about hybrid spec.

The maximum damage you can with those 2 spare abilities is obviously Flame Thrower with 3 stacks.

The next most damaging ability is Flame Thrower with 2 stacks.

The next most damaging ability is Flame Thrower with 1 stack.

You see where i am going with this ? ... Flame Thrower is the best use of those 2 spare abilities.

 

Before you use Flame Thrower though you have to watch for 2 things:

- You have no more than 15 heat (we don't want to get above 20 heat)

- The target is affected by RB.

 

If the target is not affected by RB, you will have to refresh it and then use Flame Thrower.

But that means you will delay the chance to proc PPA by 1 GCD, is it worth it ? YES , especially if you have 3 Flame Thrower stacks !

Rather than delaying RB+Flame Thrower by 4 more GCD's you are much better off delaying RS refresh by 1 GCD.

 

Never underestimate the importance of RB. Initial damage + the full duration of RB is in average the 2nd highest damaging ability after Flame Thrower (RS and IM comes right after). The reason why you have to make sure it is applied before doing Flame Thrower or for that matter any sort of damaging ability is because of the 3% extra damage you do on a target affected by RB.

So ALWAYS make sure the target is affected by RB.

 

 

When do we use IM?

 

This is mainly for the 2/22/22 spec and it is the hardest question to answer to, since this is the reason why so many people have heat management issues with it.

Unlike RB you don't have to keep it all times unless you can afford it.

Lets talk about its damage, in average it does as much as RS.

IM + Rapid does more or less as much damage as 2xFB(+4 ticks of plasma cell)

IM + Rapid = 22 Heat 2xFB = 36 Heat

 

So to start answering the question lets imagine a couple of situations we would find ourselves into starting from GCD2: FB/RP (Procs PPA) --GCD1-- RS (free) --GCD2-- :

 

1st situation : target is affected by RB, target is NOT affected by IM and Flame Thrower is on cooldown.

- Above 25 heat and we dont have the free RP proc : 2 x Rapid

- 25 - 30 heat but with a RP proc : Rapid + FB followed by the free RP

- 10 - 25 heat : Rapid + IM

- less than 10 heat w/o RP proc : IM + Rapid

- less than 10 heat with RP proc : IM + FB followed by RP

 

2nd situation : target is NOT affected by RB, target is NOT affected by IM and Flame Thrower is on cooldown

- above 32 heat - 2 x Rapid

- 18 - 32 heat - Rapid + RB

- less than 18 heat w/o RP proc : RB + FB

- less than 18 heat with RP proc : RB + IM followed by RP

 

3rd situation : Flame Thrower is NOT on cooldown, target is NOT affected by IM, target is NOT affected by RB

- above 32 heat - 2 x Rapid

- 18 - 32 heat - Rapid + RB

- 10 to 18 heat w/o RP proc : Flame Thrower

- 10 - 18 heat with RP proc : RB + Flame Thrower

- under 10 heat : RB + Flame Thrower

Note that IM is not applied at all, because is on a lower priority compared to RB and Flame Thrower

 

So as you can see using IM is very, very situational, depending on how much ammo, If RB is applied, if Flame Thrower is on cooldown, if we have the RP proc.

If you find it too difficult to maintain IM too in your rotation switch to the 8/22/16 Hybrid that doesn't require the use of IM at all.

 

 

I think this pretty much covers the BASIC hybrid rotation , yes i said basic because with practice you will learn little tricks that will come natural only after using the spec for quite a while.

A couple of examples of such "tricks":

- delaying using RS right after refresh because using RS will get you to 0 heat, and that means wasted heat dissipation, but being mindful at what step you are within the 4GCD

- delaying the chance to refresh RS because Flame Thrower is about to go off cooldown :

FB/RP (Procs PPA) --GCD1-- RS (free) --GCD2-- (Flame Thrower will be off cooldown at the next GCD) Rapid - Flame Thrower - FB/RP (procs PPA)

- clipping RB within those 2 spare abilities because you know you will not have the chance at the next set of 4GCD(either raid movement or Flame Thrower will be off cooldown then)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to add in my 2 cents. I was pulling about 2300 - 2400 on the dummy (no adrenal) in the "standard" pyro 31 build. I switch to this and even doing the rotation badly (cause I know I am messing things up here and there) I am getting 2600 - 2700. So the 2/22/22 spec is definately pretty solid. I can only imagine if I can get this rotation down a bit more, will be really great.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Probably not at all, since there is very little survival. You have about the same damage mitigation that pyro gets... which is to say, not a lot.

 

If you were going to force yourself to plant into the group with a FT, I would suggest Full AP.

 

Edit: In fairness, I honestly don't know since I dont do pvp much.

Edited by Chickensevil
Link to comment
Share on other sites

how viable is this spec in pvp?

 

Both are extremely viable, depending on how good you are at landing the three stack PFT on as many people as possible, and as often as possible.

 

In my experience, you just get CC'ed or bumped out of it by ops/snipers, and maras/juggs just leap away from PFT. It's a full three second cast cone AOE, and getting away isn't exactly hard. Maybe I'm just bad at it or playing really good pre-mades most of the time.

 

I still think the best hybrid is the spec that uses oil slick. Everyone hates you for doing it, but the slick wrecks shop when guarding a door or a node. Every enemy slows to a crawl and suffers a 30% accuracy penalty. Meanwhile, you don't, and you basically face tank and destroy everyone inside of it that isn't spamming AOE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Ok tell me how to get this 3000 DPS ?!

 

Talents: 2/22/22

my stats (tech):

bonus dmg 1505,8 (1353 AP)

accuracy: 110,48 (474)

crit: 23,83 (52)

critical multiplier: 68,68 (316)

aim: 3154

augments: all aim 32/20

pvp eliminator set bonus

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/369522

 

Best Parse was near to 2800. But then only around 2700. I switche to 8/22/16 tryed 0 Crit, lower the crit multiplier, switched back to PE set bonus...and so on.

Where are these 300 DPS?

Edited by Mutace
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok tell me how to get this 3000 DPS ?!

 

Talents: 2/22/22

my stats (tech):

bonus dmg 1505,8 (1353 AP)

accuracy: 110,48 (474)

crit: 23,83 (52)

critical multiplier: 68,68 (316)

aim: 3154

augments: all aim 32/20

pvp eliminator set bonus

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/369522

 

Best Parse was near to 2800. But then only around 2700. I switche to 8/22/16 tryed 0 Crit, lower the crit multiplier, switched back to PE set bonus...and so on.

Where are these 300 DPS?

 

I'm guessing you are sitting in all PVP gear then? I wouldn't expect you to be able to break 3k unless you are perfectly optimized 72s or better, and even then ONLY if you are using the best stim AND popping adrenals.

 

Where I was mentioning the damage difference I personally noticed was in moving from pyro to hybrid (I used to run a 31 point pyro build).

 

As for your crit, 114 I believe is the perfect "theoretical" crit level for 72 gear (might change for 75... noone has run the numbers yet that I am aware of). You get this from two crit mods. Everything else should be full power. Alternatively you can just go 0 crit since the difference is very minor (I think it was like 10 dps or something).

 

Aside from that, if you are NOT seeing a difference in damage between pyro and hybrid I would strongly suggest you are messing up the hybrid rotation (which is easy to do). One thing I helped a fellow guildy out with as a "cheat" to do the rotation without really considering what you are doing, just to get the "hang" of the switch is to do this cycle:

 

Opener: (should start with 3 stacks of PFT) RB - TSO - IM - Explosive Fuel/Adrenal - FT - RS - RP/FB (until PPA) - RS

First cycle: FB(or rapid if too high on heat) - RB - RP/FB (PPA) - RS

Second cycle: FT - RP/FB (PPA) - RS

Third cycle: IM - Rapid Shots - RP/FB (PPA) - RS

The go back to the first cycle.

 

Now, if you get perfect proc's on PPA this will create I believe 1 GCD of a gap in keeping everything perfect (IM Dot, RB Dot, and FT on CD). Of course if you miss a proc of PPA then you will be getting further from that gap and that is why I specifically put them in the order I did, since this will allow you to ensure you have RB up BEFORE you FT.

 

Once you get the hang of the rotation you can mix and match better to determine the best timing of everything. But you should see a distinct damage difference between Pyro (31 point) and the hybrid (2/22/22). Hope this helps.

 

PS. For your missile launcher, I suggest starting the fight pre-loaded (just hit the button about 10 seconds before you pull and it should be good), then start using them starting in the first cycle right after your first FT, and all of them should go off while you have your Explosive Fuel/Adrenal up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

First off, thanks for the guide. I tried out 2/22/22 and even without knowing the rotation at all, I saw my dps go up significantly (100 or so, then more once I got the hang of it) on a 5 minute parse.

 

My question is what do you think about dropping, say, accuracy in favor or alacrity? Rapid shots and rail shot are the only two abilities that require accuracy for the spec, both are just cooldown filler, and heat management is a real chore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First off, thanks for the guide. I tried out 2/22/22 and even without knowing the rotation at all, I saw my dps go up significantly (100 or so, then more once I got the hang of it) on a 5 minute parse.

 

My question is what do you think about dropping, say, accuracy in favor or alacrity? Rapid shots and rail shot are the only two abilities that require accuracy for the spec, both are just cooldown filler, and heat management is a real chore.

 

Bosses now have 10% force/tech resist, which you need accuracy to make up for. Even sorcs/sages need accuracy in PvE now.

 

And rail shot is far from "just cool down filler" in hybrid spec. It's about even with FT for damage contribution.

Edited by OlosBC
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bosses now have 10% force/tech resist, which you need accuracy to make up for. Even sorcs/sages need accuracy in PvE now.

 

And rail shot is far from "just cool down filler" in hybrid spec. It's about even with FT for damage contribution.

 

Thanks for the clarification, I was unaware of the resist change. And maybe it's because I haven't mastered the spec, but the vast majority of my damage so far has been coming from FT and dots.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the clarification, I was unaware of the resist change. And maybe it's because I haven't mastered the spec, but the vast majority of my damage so far has been coming from FT and dots.

 

Ideally you should be hitting rail shot every 4th ability (assuming perfect PPA procs. Now I realize it got needed and moved down the scale from top damage to less... But IIRC it is still about 15% of my damage... Which is a lot.

 

In testing people have tried simulations and real world and seen no benefit to alacrity. Sorry... It just sucks for us. Based on testing you should see the vest damage from 99.5% accuracy. (Slightly more if wearing 75 gear)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It makes no sense to have Prototype Cylinder Ventilation and Neural Overload... are you switching cylinders?

 

Yeah, if you want to use that spec (I am assuming it is for PVP) then you either want to move your point in Neural Overload into Combust and stick with HEGC or (and this is likely the better option for PVP since it lets you use guard) remove Charged Gauntlets and Prototype Cylinder Ventilation replacing with 2 points in Power Armor and 1 point to put whereever else you see fit (likely putting it in Combust).

 

But the hybrid outlined in the OP was for DPS, and specifically targeting DPS for Operations... which this spec would not be a viable option for Operations... too much damage mitigation talents being taken just so you can get to the leap ability.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 8 months later...
Has the game changed since this post? because in order to make PPA proc and also get stacks of prototype flamethrower at the same time you'd have to have combustible gas cylinder and high energy gas cylinder active at the same time, which is impossible and always has been. Or maybe you could be switching cylinders. but that is a huge waste of GCDs where you aren't doing any damage.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Has the game changed since this post? because in order to make PPA proc and also get stacks of prototype flamethrower at the same time you'd have to have combustible gas cylinder and high energy gas cylinder active at the same time, which is impossible and always has been. Or maybe you could be switching cylinders. but that is a huge waste of GCDs where you aren't doing any damage.

 

The hybrid was removed in patch 2.6

Patch 2.8 made Assault spec better at single target DPS than the hybrid ever was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...